7/4 Posted October 13, 2006 Report Posted October 13, 2006 Just listening to this one this morning. Looks like someone has it for sale on Amazon for $499.99. Why hasn't this seen wider release in the US? I don't think it was ever a legit release. Quote
brownie Posted October 13, 2006 Report Posted October 13, 2006 Just listening to this one this morning. Looks like someone has it for sale on Amazon for $499.99. Why hasn't this seen wider release in the US? I don't think it was ever a legit release. The French CBS twofer was a legitimate release. The production of the album was supervised by Henri Renaud. Quote
7/4 Posted October 13, 2006 Report Posted October 13, 2006 Just listening to this one this morning. Looks like someone has it for sale on Amazon for $499.99. Why hasn't this seen wider release in the US? I don't think it was ever a legit release. The French CBS twofer was a legitimate release. The production of the album was supervised by Henri Renaud. Then it is strange that it never came out in the states. Quote
brownie Posted October 13, 2006 Report Posted October 13, 2006 Seems CBS did not think the music was fit for the U.S. tastes in music! Quote
WD45 Posted October 13, 2006 Report Posted October 13, 2006 How little do they know... I would listen to this before I put on Dancing In Your Head 100 times over. Quote
ghost of miles Posted October 13, 2006 Report Posted October 13, 2006 Has anyone seen the film this was the soundtrack to? Saw it on late-night TV a few years back... struck me as very self-indulgent. Much prefer Ornette's soundtrack, which I snagged as a Borders musicseller around the same time (re: Chuck's post, didn't the guy who made the film say something to the effect of, "Ornette's music was too beautiful," or some such? ) Quote
Head Man Posted October 13, 2006 Report Posted October 13, 2006 Just listening to this one this morning. Looks like someone has it for sale on Amazon for $499.99. Why hasn't this seen wider release in the US? I don't think it was ever a legit release. The French CBS twofer was a legitimate release. The production of the album was supervised by Henri Renaud. DMG has a copy of the French CBS release and/or a CD-R copy for sale: DMG Quote
ep1str0phy Posted October 13, 2006 Report Posted October 13, 2006 Just want to say that the CBS twofer not only looks legit--it also sounds relatively good. I've been enjoying it for ages now (the strings/trio sections call to mind what Skies of America might have been...). Quote
clifford_thornton Posted October 13, 2006 Report Posted October 13, 2006 It's great; I have it on a Japanese LP pressing. I think the DMG CD-R business is a crock of shit, and I really want to get all "chewy" on their asses. Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted October 13, 2006 Report Posted October 13, 2006 I think the question of "legitimacy" is a dispute between Conrad Rooks and Ornette. Rooks made the record deal with French CBS and Ornette felt he had been paid for a soundtrack but had not been paid for a record. Quote
7/4 Posted October 13, 2006 Report Posted October 13, 2006 I think the question of "legitimacy" is a dispute between Conrad Rooks and Ornette. Rooks made the record deal with French CBS and Ornette felt he had been paid for a soundtrack but had not been paid for a record. I heard that the record company did a major editing job on the recording and he did not approve. I'll do some searching later and see what I can dig up that isn't a rumor on the Yahoo list. Quote
clifford_thornton Posted October 13, 2006 Report Posted October 13, 2006 (edited) I think the question of "legitimacy" is a dispute between Conrad Rooks and Ornette. Rooks made the record deal with French CBS and Ornette felt he had been paid for a soundtrack but had not been paid for a record. That may be true and would be interesting if it's the case. I was referring to something totally different, however - a shopowner who burns his LPs and sells them at $15-$20 a pop. Including the album in question. Edited October 13, 2006 by clifford_thornton Quote
7/4 Posted October 13, 2006 Report Posted October 13, 2006 I think the question of "legitimacy" is a dispute between Conrad Rooks and Ornette. Rooks made the record deal with French CBS and Ornette felt he had been paid for a soundtrack but had not been paid for a record. That may be true and would be interesting if it's the case. I was referring to something totally different, however - a shopowner who burns his LPs and sells them at $15-$20 a pop. Including the album in question. I knew Manny is an idiot. Why doesn't he just copy the CDs? Quote
clifford_thornton Posted October 13, 2006 Report Posted October 13, 2006 Well, the French Columbia CD set isn't even OOP, last I checked... Plus, he's ripping shit off left and right. It stinks. I support trading burns and stuff like that, but selling them in a shop? C'mon... Quote
Guest akanalog Posted October 13, 2006 Report Posted October 13, 2006 well it would be nice if record companies would make the music availble. if i want a copy of "juba-lee", how much is an LP going for? probably a lot. so i am fine paying $15 for a well done LP to CD transfer. i prefer CD format anyway. i would rather a legit CD reissue, but there isn't any. also i am not sure it is actually manny who is doing it since i at the last WFMU record fair there was a guy selling even more of a selection of the CD-Rs who didn't seem to be DMG associated. this is a guy on ebay who sells vinyl burns-i sent you that marion brown one, cliff. that guy sucks. he doesn't even track the CDs usually and uses scratchy vinyl. Quote
7/4 Posted October 13, 2006 Report Posted October 13, 2006 also i am not sure it is actually manny who is doing it since i at the last WFMU record fair there was a guy selling even more of a selection of the CD-Rs who didn't seem to be DMG associated. The two I have from DMG are very nice. There's a Sun Ra and a Frippertronics that sound amazing. Quote
clifford_thornton Posted October 13, 2006 Report Posted October 13, 2006 I think there are a number of people doing it, but DMG by selling them in a store seems more dubious than just random weird dudes. As far as I can tell, it's either Manny or Bruce's records that are being used for the ones they're selling there. I also think that if you're going to burn/rip shit, it should be a trade circuit. But what are you gonna do? I'm diggin' Le Temps Fou, so I'm not saying I'm not partly guilty for owning something ripped for profit (sounds good, too). Quote
erhodes Posted October 14, 2006 Report Posted October 14, 2006 I heard that the record company did a major editing job on the recording and he did not approve. I'll do some searching later and see what I can dig up that isn't a rumor on the Yahoo list. The story is that there was much more composed and arranged orchestral music than what was released on the CBS release. All of the accounts of this that I have read on the internet have been second and third hand. AFAIK, no one has said they have first hand knowledge of this or that they have heard the unedited material or that it definitely still exists in some recorded form. Also, no one seems to know who was in the 11 piece orchestra. Quote
Late Posted April 24, 2007 Report Posted April 24, 2007 Legal issues aside, if there was ever a logical time for Legacy/Columbia to reissue this set, it would be now. Ornette now has a Grammy and Pulitzer to his name — buzz words for better or worse — and interest in his back catalog might be at a peak. You can actually fit the 2-disc set onto one disc — mine clocks in at 79:48 I think. This would lower production costs, I'm guessing. At any rate, I just listened to all four parts of the suite back-to-back a few days ago — uninterrupted! — and was blown away all over again. Chappaqua Suite is not only undervalued in my opinion, but I think it has Charles Moffett's most elegant playing (with Ornette) on record. On the Golden Circle recordings, Moffett sounds like a basher — exuberant, but with a fondness for thrashing away at his ride cymbal, and generally staying at one consistent dynamic level (i.e. "loud"). On Chappaqua Suite, he really steers the band (trio and orchestra) with a finer delicacy, changing tempi at times not unlike (in spirit at least) Tony Williams. It probably won't happen, but a U.S. release, done right, would be another fine honor for Ornette. Of course, Ornette himself would probably be against the project. Quote
JSngry Posted April 24, 2007 Report Posted April 24, 2007 It probably won't happen, but a U.S. release, done right, would be another fine honor for Ornette. Of course, Ornette himself would probably be against the project. You honor somebody by releasing something against their wishes only if you do it after they're dead. Quote
ep1str0phy Posted April 24, 2007 Report Posted April 24, 2007 (edited) If we're talking Ornette albums in limbo, then we should at least get to The Great London Concert first--that might represent some of the trio's best material, overall. And then there's Who's Crazy, Crisis... And honestly, I'd be even more excited if Ornette started releasing new records semi-regularly again. Edited April 24, 2007 by ep1str0phy Quote
clifford_thornton Posted April 25, 2007 Report Posted April 25, 2007 And honestly, I'd be even more excited if Ornette started releasing new records semi-regularly again. Yeah, especially new ones with Izenzon and Moffett! Quote
ep1str0phy Posted April 25, 2007 Report Posted April 25, 2007 Well, with the way Chappaqua Suite was recorded, it might as well be Ornette, Moffett, and Izenzon via stairwell. Honestly, though, I'd be interested in hearing Ornette's approach to group music with musicians (such as AACM members) whose ideas are far more "in tune" with other group musics. Case in point: Ornette + Jackie on New and Old Gospel. Case against? : Ornette + Garrison/Elvin (on a lot of) New York Is Now and Love Call, although it's certainly an interesting collaboration on numerous levels. Quote
clifford_thornton Posted April 25, 2007 Report Posted April 25, 2007 I think Ornette needs a "working" band to really get into it. But that's just me. Quote
ep1str0phy Posted April 25, 2007 Report Posted April 25, 2007 (edited) I agree, too, but at this point I'll take anything, and novelty is a part of that. I think the recent "Ornette explosion" has spurred a mad-dash to documentation, but things feel a little uneven when a few great bands have just disappeared from below. Did you happen to catch the Ornette/Charnett/Denardo trio? I mean, I love Geri Allen, but that trio was hard--in its own way, a challenge to the (dare I say it) 60's trio. Edited April 25, 2007 by ep1str0phy Quote
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