I shoplifted at Border's today

[RDK]

And what's the deal at Best Buy (and other stores)? Just yesterday, I bought something from BB, and not ten feet away from the register, where I had only seconds before made my purchase, carrying the item out in a BB bag - the guy at the door stops to check your receipt and look in the bag. What's the point of that?

[7/4]

And what's the deal at Best Buy (and other stores)? Just yesterday, I bought something from BB, and not ten feet away from the register, where I had only seconds before made my purchase, carrying the item out in a BB bag - the guy at the door stops to check your receipt and look in the bag. What's the point of that?

They want to make sure the person at the register is honest too.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

But that being said, most times when I've asked a question at Borders (or Barnes & Nobles, or Best Buy, etc.) if the computer can't answer it, with a few exceptions, I'm pretty much on my own. Yes, that's how things are run these days, and I don't fault the workers, but I miss the days of the "knowledgeable employee" who could function off-the-cuff and actually seemed interested in helping you.

I took a few quarter-size paint chips into a Duron paint store and asked the sole clerk on duty if it was latex or oil. He didn't know and said it would be hard to tell. Yeah right, and I suppose a petro-chemical worker couldn't tell the difference between home heating oil and 95 octane Sunoco? In this day & analytical age where they can give us the full rundown of the contents of the Tyrolean Iceman's stomach and intestinal tract, or analyze the bejesus out of martian soil, how is it possible that a clerk in a top name paint co. shop can't answer that simple question? I then asked him about some of the DURACLAD metal/paint products they were selling because I needed to repaint an ancient tin roof. I told him I didn't know if it was galvanized or non-galvanized and asked him how one could tell the difference. Again..DUH! Hey, when you're peddling specialty products in a specialty paint shop you'd better know something!!! The fact that we've never been serious (like the europeans) about apprenticeships in this country is a colossal @!%# outrage of the first order.

Edited May 2, 2004 by Son-of-a-Weizen

[wesbed]

From experience with other large corporations/retailers (including the company I work for, which is not a retailer), whether it be a Best Buy or a paint store, there are no longer knowledgeable workers.

Being too familiar with the company I work for, which makes a mass-marketed product, the employees are considered, by the management, to be the least important group of people. The customers place slightly ahead of the employees in order of importance. Yet, without employees and customers, there is no company.

For the employees, there is very little training, people come and go at all levels, and nobody trusts anybody. When the employees are taught to not care, the customer's get treated very poorly. I believe the attitude comes from the top down. The attitudes of the employees reflect the attitude of the management. All that seems important, at times, is the 'bottom line' and the ego of the CEO.

When I go to Border's, Best Buy, and the like... I don't like the poor assistance nor the ridiculous security systems. However, I'm not surprised by either.

If you can find a good Mom & Pop store, where Mom & Pop work there and must depend on the business for their survival, you'll, generally, find good service from caring people. At the same time, however, Mom & Pop may not be able to offer the price structure of a Best Buy, Home Depot, or Target.

[JSngry]

The fact that we've never been serious (like the europeans) about apprenticeships in this country is a colossal @!%# outrage of the first order.

I couldn't agree more.

Probelm is - "labor" is too often treated as a "renewable resource" by employers and "just a paycheck" by employees. The investment in a non-glamorous career is too "unprofitable" for all concerned, it seems.

When the primary goal is immediate profit (for all concerned - this is most assuredly not an indictment of capitalism or some such, just an indictment of how it's currently being practiced)), investment of time and delayed gratification become less than imperitave. They become a nuisance. We as a society lose terribly from this, I think. Going to a Home Depot and asking for any advice other than where something is is a guaranteed experience in frustration. I remember when the cats in the local hardware store could tell you evrything you needed to know (and much more!). Those days are over.

I don't like it.

[Alexander]

I miss the days of the "knowledgeable employee" who could function off-the-cuff and actually seemed interested in helping you...

Well, I used to BE one of those "knowledgable employees." In fact, when I worked at the B&N, we had a FANTASTIC staff in the music department. A bunch of VERY knowledgable people. We had TWO jazz guys (me and Brian), a classical guy, a woman who knew international music very well, several people who knew a lot about different rock genres...

I used to say that we had an independent store staff in a corporate building. And people really appreciated it, too. Every one of us had a bunch of regulars who knew they could come to us for good advice when it came to music.

Well, now that I no longer work at B&N, I can tell you that the music staff got treated like SHIT by the company. Hours were often cut. We were often understaffed. I got frequent complaints from the higher-ups that music department employees were too lazy, surly, etc. But the fact is that you don't hire music people for their people skills: you hire them for their knowledge. As long as they were polite to the customers, I was happy. I tried not to lay too many rules on them, etc.

Well, pretty much everyone who was there under me is now gone, replaced (I hear) by teenagers who are just putting in their time in order to get the paycheck. It's a pity, because we had a good thing going there for a while. But we weren't willing to "play the game." We didn't like promoting stuff just because the company told us to do so. We tried promoting *good* music, and often succeeded (I can tell you about days when every disc I played on the in-store system sold). Even during the periods when the store was tanking, the music department was making plan. But you see, when you work for a company like B&N, it's not about selling music. If it were, they wouldn't care what we did or how we did it. It's about doing what you're told, following the rules, and sticking to the planner. We didn't do that, so as far as the company was concerned, we were bad employees, no matter how much money we were making for them. It's not just about money in those places. Its about power: Who's got it, and who doesn't.

[Uncle Skid]

It's about doing what you're told, following the rules, and sticking to the planner. 

I think you have just summed up what's wrong with corporate America in general -- independent thinking is discouraged, it's all about predictibility.

I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that I would much rather buy music from a knowledgeable staff like yours as opposed to people who are trained in fake smiles and canned greetings.

I bet all these problems could be fixed with a better "mission statement" or something...

[vibes]

And what's the deal at Best Buy (and other stores)? Just yesterday, I bought something from BB, and not ten feet away from the register, where I had only seconds before made my purchase, carrying the item out in a BB bag - the guy at the door stops to check your receipt and look in the bag. What's the point of that?

Depends on which store you go to, but this should be happening at most Best Buy stores. Shrink (theft/damage) is often a big problem, so they generally check receipts to make sure that everything is OK. Best Buy stores have shrink budgets, and if they're missing their budget, you can be sure they'll be very strict about not letting people out the door before their receipts have been checked. Don't feel offended - that's just how things are when a few people can't be honest and ruin it for the rest of us who are honest.

[wesbed]

It's about doing what you're told, following the rules, and sticking to the planner.  We didn't do that, so as far as the company was concerned, we were bad employees, no matter how much money we were making for them.  It's not just about money in those places.  Its about power:  Who's got it, and who doesn't.

Alexander:

Your words here, are very wise, in my opinion. I've had the same thoughts & experiences with various jobs I've held since starting and graduating from college.

I used to think it was the money. It is to a point. But, you've hit on something very important and very subtle. I do believe it is about power. I have a friend who used to manage a produce department in a grocery store. He had the best sales numbers in the district. Like you, he kinda played by his own rules, although not breaking the rules. He believed, since he had the best sales numbers, he would be appreciated. He and his district manager got into a war of words till my friend, finally, quit the grocery business and went to work for the railroad (making even more money). In the end, the grocery (retail) job came down to a play for power, who had it, who didn't, and who's ego got rubbed the wrong way. It didn't matter that my friend was turning a good profit for the company.

I've witnessed the same pattern in the couple of retail jobs I've held. It's always the same, "You' didn't do what 'I' said so now you'll be labeled as a troublemaker, no matter how good you are at managing your business. 'I' have the power and 'you' don't." This type of situation helps neither the employee nor the customer. As I've written earlier in this thread, with no employees and no customers, there is no company.