Donald Byrd

[catesta]

I disagree --- tracks like 'The Lover' (which would actually be an excellent closing number for a Byrd radio show imo) and 'Secret Love' from Slow Drag deserve a bit better than a plain 'ol "nice".

The title track is a bit weak though.

I could not agree more.

Slow Drag is still one of my favorite Byrd dates.

I'm also digging this one right now.

[catesta]

One minor point of clarification here.

Weizen isn't that track titled "The Loner?"

Edited July 31, 2003 by catesta

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Yes, I had "All Night Long" on a couple of nights ago just to hear Watkins blazing trails. Funny thing though, during the transition from Byrd's solo to Hank's, sounds to me like Hank gets off to a clipped start..almost like he was distracted for a second while he put down a cigarette or something? A real shame that the song fades out just when Burrell seems to be on the verge of launching a major smoker...

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

One minor point of clarification here.

Weizen isn't that track titled "The Loner?"

Could be....but my TOCJ copy says "The Lover".

[catesta]

Weizen isn't that track titled "The Loner?"

Could be....but my TOCJ copy says "The Lover".

[JohnS]

I'm also digging this one right now.

Definitely, this is what I call JAZZ

[mgraham333]

I'm ususally not crazy about the jazz "with voices" genre, but there is something about Byrd's A New Perspective that gets me every time.

Does anyone have any comments about I'm Trying To Get Home

Here is the AMG review (2 stars):

A follow-up to trumpeter Donald Byrd's hit A New Perspective, this LP (not yet reissued on CD) also features an eight-voice choir conducted by Coleridge Perkinson and arrangements by Duke Pearson and the leader. The vocalists have a larger role than in the earlier date and Byrd's quintet (with tenor saxophonist Stanley Turrentine and pianist Herbie Hancock) is augmented by organist Freddie Roach, guitarist Grant Green and a dozen brass players. But despite some strong moments, the date (which resulted in no real hits) does not quite reach the heights of A New Perspective although it has plenty of interesting moments. — Scott Yanow

Does anyone know where I can find some sound clips of ITTGH?

[jmjk]

Here is the AMG review (2 stars):

A follow-up to trumpeter Donald Byrd's hit A New Perspective, this LP (not yet reissued on CD)

I'm Tryin' to Get Home was re-issued on cd in the TOCJ series from Japan, and could possibly be obtained through usual rare cd avenues.

I don't really care much for this session, but it's still part of my collection.

[Late]

Any other comments on I'm Trying To Get Home? Just hit me that I've never heard it. Is it worth searching out the TOCJ, or will a guy be content with simply owning A New Perspective? (Is Roach's organ playing a plus on the session?)

[JSngry]

Not "essential" in my book, but I don't think you'd feel bad about not paying too much for it.

[jlhoots]

Not "essential" in my book, but I don't think you'd feel bad about not paying too much for it.

3 negatives in one sentence.

[jazzbo]

Any other comments on I'm Trying To Get Home? Just hit me that I've never heard it. Is it worth searching out the TOCJ, or will a guy be content with simply owning A New Perspective? (Is Roach's organ playing a plus on the session?)

I like it. More traditional than A New Perspective, a different album, by design. It's not great, but it does stand up to some repeat listens. When you're in the mood, it works.

[JSngry]

Not "essential" in my book, but I don't think you'd feel bad about not paying too much for it.

3 negatives in one sentence.

Well, two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.

[Justin V]

The great Donald Byrd would have been 83 today.  I'm playing Blackjack now.

[blind-blake]

Was once in a record store in New Jersey -- Rare Records (unfortunately not there any more) -- and a woman came in to have the owner Rod put a Donald Byrd LP she had on disc. Rod would do that for people. After she dropped off the record, Donald Byrd himself came in to the store. He lived not too far away and came by once every blue moon. He signed the CD for the lady. When she came back, she had a cool surprise. 

[Rabshakeh]

I was listening yesterday to The Young Bloods, the record that Byrd did with Phil Woods in 1956, and I found it striking how weak Byrd sounds next to Woods on that record.

Woods isn't even a player I like, but the gap seems to my ears to be huge. Given the early bop tempo of most of that record, Byrd just sounds like he's desperately catching up. Many of his solos are just repeated sections of two notes from the main melody.

I like Byrd's Blue Note records a lot, but find it strange that he was given so many opportunities to record in this early pre-Blue Note period, and that, when he did, it was often in top notch bop quality company, rather than anything that the critics of the time might have considered more 'commercial' (i.e., more swing or blues influenced material).

[BillF]

Well, the period you're speaking of was post-Clifford and pre-Lee and pre-Freddie, so Donald was just about best around at the time and therefore very much in demand, despite some lack of technical brilliance. I don't recall The Young Bloods, but I find Donald, along with everyone else, absolutely great on this 1956 Messengers album, though if I'm honest I have to say I recall a musician friend pointing out Donald's difficulty with higher notes as we were listening to it together:

 

[Rabshakeh]

14 minutes ago, BillF said:

Well, the period you're speaking of was post-Clifford and pre-Lee and pre-Freddie, so Donald was just about best around at the time and therefore very much in demand, despite some lack of technical brilliance. I don't recall The Young Bloods, but I find Donald, along with everyone else, absolutely great on this 1956 Messengers album, though if I'm honest I have to say I recall a musician friend pointing out Donald's difficulty with higher notes as we were listening to it together:

 

I think that Young Bloods is taken at a bop tempo, so it is much clearer how much Byrd struggles.

The explanation makes some sense. Bill Hardman? Nat Adderley? They're neither of them much better than Byrd, and they recorded a lot. Kenny Dorham, Thad Jones and Art Farmer are the names that jump to mind for high quality mid 1950s East Coast trumpet, which I guess leaves room for a fourth.

Still, a surprise that he was given so much space in his pre-Blue Note period, in a scene that was still very competitive and intolerant of poor playing. Maybe people just liked him personally or he was more punctual/reliable than the average 1950s jazz musician.

Same is probably true of the early Free Jazz era. How else to explain Freddie Hubbard appearing on both Ascension and Free Jazz (the album)?

[T.D.]

9 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

I was listening yesterday to The Young Bloods, the record that Byrd did with Phil Woods in 1956, and I found it striking how weak Byrd sounds next to Woods on that record.

Woods isn't even a player I like, but the gap seems to my ears to be huge. Given the early bop tempo of most of that record, Byrd just sounds like he's desperately catching up. Many of his solos are just repeated sections of two notes from the main melody.

I like Byrd's Blue Note records a lot, but find it strange that he was given so many opportunities to record in this early pre-Blue Note period, and that, when he did, it was often in top notch bop quality company, rather than anything that the critics of the time might have considered more 'commercial' (i.e., more swing or blues influenced material).

Interesting. I just spun Geo. Wallington's Jazz For the Carriage Trade (Prestige, 1956), also with Woods and Byrd. Here too, Woods sounds much more fluid than Byrd on the boppish numbers. And in keeping with Bill's post, Byrd sounds a bit pinched and strained on high notes.

That said, I've always enjoyed Byrd's Blue Note recordings. Perhaps I haven't listened very critically to the earlier ones.

Edited June 2, 2022 by T.D.

[Simon8]

When he plays to his strenghts (mid-tempo, mid-range), Byrd certainly has one my favorite trumpet tone.  

[Peter Friedman]

1 hour ago, Rabshakeh said:

I think that Young Bloods is taken at a bop tempo, so it is much clearer how much Byrd struggles.

The explanation makes some sense. Bill Hardman? Nat Adderley? They're neither of them much better than Byrd, and they recorded a lot. Kenny Dorham, Thad Jones and Art Farmer are the names that jump to mind for high quality mid 1950s East Coast trumpet, which I guess leaves room for a fourth.

Still, a surprise that he was given so much space in his pre-Blue Note period, in a scene that was still very competitive and intolerant of poor playing. Maybe people just liked him personally or he was more punctual/reliable than the average 1950s jazz musician.

Same is probably true of the early Free Jazz era. How else to explain Freddie Hubbard appearing on both Ascension and Free Jazz (the album)?

My view of Bill Hardman is very different than your comment. He is one of my favorite trumpet players from the period when he was on the scene. One time when I was in NYC  the Bill Hardman/ Junior Cook Quintet was playing at a club (can't recall the name of the club). Hardman was outstanding. His solos were creative, swinging and technically damn good. 

[Larry Kart]

Byrd went through one or more evolutions, from his somewhat/occasionally hesitant Prestige days to his technically assured Blue Note work and then into the more pop stuff. And all praise to Bill Hardman IMO.

[Rabshakeh]

For the record, I like Donald Byrd's Blue Note records a lot. They are consistently interesting all the way through to his funk era.

No offence meant to Bill Hardman, but I've never seen him as being a player of Kenny Dorham's or Art Farmer's stature.

[felser]

21 hours ago, BillF said:

Well, the period you're speaking of was post-Clifford and pre-Lee and pre-Freddie, so Donald was just about best around at the time and therefore very much in demand, despite some lack of technical brilliance. I don't recall The Young Bloods, but I find Donald, along with everyone else, absolutely great on this 1956 Messengers album, though if I'm honest I have to say I recall a musician friend pointing out Donald's difficulty with higher notes as we were listening to it together:

 

That album is a desert island disc for me.  Not just for the playing, but also for several amazing compositions, especially "Nica's Dream" (and that record has the definitive version.  "Infra-Rae" is also pretty great). As far as the general drift of this conversation, it seems spot-on that there was a dearth of great hard bop trumpet players on the East Coast at that point (Farmer, Thad Jones, Dorham, Hardman were good), but things heated up in a hurry over the next few years (Lee Morgan, Freddie Hubbard, Booker Little, Blue Mitchell, Don Ellis, Ted Curson etc.).  The discussion really highlights how amazing Clifford Brown was for his time.  What could he have done with the advances over the next 15 years!

Edited June 3, 2022 by felser

[Gheorghe]

10 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

For the record, I like Donald Byrd's Blue Note records a lot. They are consistently interesting all the way through to his funk era.

No offence meant to Bill Hardman, but I've never seen him as being a player of Kenny Dorham's or Art Farmer's stature.

I kept only "Off the Races" and the one with Pepper Adams live (I don´t remember which joint, it was in the early sixties and had Lex Humphries on drums, very fine drummer who died too early). There are too many for me. I think I have another one from 1967 but forgot the title. On the other hand I have some Donald Byrd as sideman for other players (Sonny Rollins, John Coltrane, Hank Mobley , Bud Powell).....

As for the 70´s era if I want to hear early to mid seventies electric jazz I prefer Miles Davis when he went all electric....., somehow it is possible that the electric Byrd didn´t reach Europe as much as the electric Miles........

Bill Hardman is nice and can play, but I doubt he would be "studied" much by aspiring young trumpet players. I have played with some really fine trumpet players who had studied all their stuff technically and musically but I doubt if I would ask them about Bill Hardman he or she would say "Gee, that really was a source of inspiration for me). I saw Bill Hardman  once, but it was towards the end of his live I think in the 1980´d  in Cehoslovacia with a fine local trio, but it was only one set consisting of 3 tunes "Walking"  "My Funny Valentine" and "Night in Tunisia"....so... nothing special for more memories.....

Art Farmer had lived in Viena for some time. I still have "To Duke with Love" signed by him with a dedication for me.....

Too bad I was too young to see Kenny Dorham live. From all those mentioned here, he is my favourite from that era of the 50´s . From 60´s jazz I prefer the players who became famous then, but of course "Una Mas" is one of my favourite records and I love to play "Una Mas" since the audience really likes it, mostly at the end of a gig, it´s a good "crowd pleaser".....