current "Elder Statesmen" of Kansas City jazz??

[Rooster_Ties]

Hi everybody!! (This thread is primarily directed at the Kansas City members of this board (or those with Kansas City backgrounds), though anyone else can get involved).

Since the passing of Claude Fiddler, I'm wondering who are the most prominent "Elder Statesmen" of Kansas City jazz. And by that, I mean old-timers that are still living in the Kansas City area, who have at least some Kansas City roots, and who still perform now and then --- or who are still active on the Kansas City jazz scene in some respect (teaching, mentoring, etc...), and who performed semi-regularly as recently as maybe up to 10 years ago.

Clearly the mantle now falls to Jay McShann, with Fiddler's passing. But, specifically, who's second-in-command after McShann??

I guess my first thought was maybe Ahmad Alaadeen, but perhaps I'm forgetting some others. Also, I suspect the general level of opinion about Alaadeen is somewhat varied (which may or may not be deserved). But he does do quite a bit of mentoring, and one could probably argue that he's somewhere in the line of succession.

Is Arch Martin known well enough around town to qualify?? I don't know of him very well, and my guess is that most other Kansas City folks don't either. But, technically, I suspect he's played with enough important leaders to qualify.

Part of the answer to this question is public perception, and how people try to position themselves in the 'marketplace'. (Tommy Ruskin?)

What I’m looking for is that somebody who's really played with a whole bunch of people over the years - who the people of Kansas City look to as being the "Buck O'Neil" of Kansas City jazz (which is how I think many people thought of Fiddler, and still think of Jay McShann). And hopefully somebody with some national significance, beyond just the local scene here in KC.

(Also, IMHO, Bobby Watson isn't old enough to qualify yet, having only turned 50 just last year. I think the person has to at least be roughly of retirement age, or at least in their 60's. And again, clearly Jay McShann is the current titleholder. I'm just wondering who's waiting in the wings.)

Edited May 25, 2004 by Rooster_Ties

[mmilovan]

Up - great thread idea!

[Eric]

Boy Tom, I don't know for sure. Alaadeen defintiely comes to mind. Another guy, although I am not sure how much he gets around, is Everette Devan (sorry if I botched the spelling). He is a funky B-3 guy, although he is probably not "elder".

Simply because of the passage of time, there are very few swing era guys left, which was obviously our bread and butter period. Post-swing, the KC gene pool gets much smaller.

Carmell Jones is gone.

Pat Metheny is an interesting choice. Seems he still gets around town and I think his brother is still here (Mike).

I really like the playing of a trumpet guy named Al Pearson, although he isn't in a leadership "mode".

Do you know Monte Muza, the guitar player? I have lost track of him, used to be a pretty good friend. Both Bobby and Pat have gone on record to say what an influence he was on them.

Aside from Jay, I would nominate Bobby, age notwithstanding. He definitely has the national prescence and in his role at UMKC, he is clearly making an impact. I don't know it for a fact, but I would expect he helps draw (or at least influence) talent to KC for shows.

Eric

PS - If you don't have them, check out both of Alaadeen's CDs - they really kick ass!

Edited April 27, 2004 by Eric

[Spontooneous]

The one who'll get the popular attention is likely Myra Taylor, the singer. And she probably deserves it. Works a crowd better than just about anybody. Last time I saw her, she got tired of waiting for the rhythm section to get plugged in, so she simply started a cappella -- and had the whole audience clapping along.

Some others:

Leon Brady, drummer, still leader of the KC Youth Jazz Bands. One of the few musicians whom the other musicians call "Mr."

Pearl Thuston Brown, a neat piano player in sort of an Erroll Garner style. Retired.

Milt Abel, a wonderful bassist and singer, retired.

Ben Kynard, saxophonist, composer of "Red Top." Not playing anymore. But I saw him at the Blue Room just two weeks ago.

Not to take anything away from 'Deen, Bobby, Everette, Arch or anybody else (even Marilyn Maye).

No endorsement of the Elder Statesmen of Kansas City Jazz Inc. organization is implied here. Some folks wonder what the heck this organization really does.

[Rooster_Ties]

Oh, gosh, I didn't even realize there was an "Elder Statesmen of Jazz" org in KC. I just used the phrase, descriptively, to mean just what it sounds like.

Of those you mention, Spontoonie, I'm the most familiar with Milt Abel (and I'm not all that familiar with him, come to think of it). I'm guessing he's probably among the oldest generation, among those mentioned anywhere in this thread (except McShann, of course).

Also, re: Pat Metheny -- he'd be an obvious choice, except I'm pretty sure he doesn't live anywhere in the KC area any more (hasn't for probably well over 20 years). I think he lives somewhere on the east coast, if I remember right - maybe somewhere in the New England area??

Oh, and Bobby Watson is absolutely the best qualified for this, hands-down -- except for his age. In 10 years (when he's 60), he'll totally have it wrapped up, in spades. Or maybe the absence of an obvious replacement (like Fiddler or McShann), would push Bobby up into that role now, despite his youth!!

Edited April 28, 2004 by Rooster_Ties

[Spontooneous]

I forgot about Luqman Hamza. Stupid me.

Also the Scamps, who have been doing their thing since the '40s, or was it the '30s?

[Rooster_Ties]

Damn, if the birthdate is right in the AMG, I just realized that McShann is about 95 years old. (Says he was born Jan. 12th, 1909.)

I was guessing he was in his mid-to-late 80's, and nowhere near 95.

By way of contrast, Bobby Watson is only turning 51 this year. He's nowhere near quite old enough for what I was looking for in this thread. Gotta be people who are at least in their 60's, and better yet - in their 70's or older.

51 is practically still just a kid!! - compared to Fiddler and McShann, who were/are in their mid-90's.

[Spontooneous]

That McShann birthdate is way off. More like 1916. The date used to be visible in a document on display at the Blue Room, but now the display case is gone.

The document also showed his real name, James Columbus McShann.

[Rooster_Ties]

That makes more sense. Somehow he just didn't seem quite that old to me. There's still a roundness to McShann's face that you just don't see in people who are 95, going on 96.

[gkynard]

who still perform now and then --- or who are still active on the Kansas City jazz scene

Here's a photo of Claude Fiddler and my uncle Ben Kynard (don't know the lady).

Claude Fiddler photo

Ben still gigs 2 to 3 times a month.

Gary Kynard

[Spontooneous]

Thanks, Gary.

Can't quite tell with her eyes closed, but the lady is probably Blanche Williams, Claude's wife, who did so much to make the last years of his life good ones.

[Guest]

If you go to the following link, you will find an almost complete record of those inducted into the Elderstatesmen of Kansas City Jazz. The 2005 inductions have not taken place yet. http://webjazz.net/elder_statesmen.html

As far as who is the "godfather" type now, I would have to give it to Jay. Milt was fantastic and an icon that non of us around the city will ever forget. Milt is now living in a nursing home.

Luqman Hamza has to rank up there. He cut his teeth with Bird. Everette is high on the list. Neither of these guys have made a huge "national" mark but probably should have.

Arch - wonderful candidate who has really been around. If you are going to talk about KC trombonists, you must list Bob Brookmeyer.

Some other names to consider: Ronnell Bright, Gary Foster, Ben Kynard, Mike Metheny (neither he or Pat at 60 yet), carol Comer, Danny Embrey (not 60), Will Matthews (age not known by me), Jay Sollenberger, Vince Bilardo, Pete Eye, Gary Sivils. The list could go on and on.

As far as national level, it would be hard to discount Marilyn Maye. I just don't think KC is the kind of place that has a single jazz godfather. If an election were held, I would not even want to vote.