Chrome Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 I still haven't gotten over the Jimmy Smith horror stories posted on another thread, the stuff about him being such a jerk to audiences ... it's stuck in the back of my mind everytime I listen to his stuff now! Anyone else have this problem, where your personal feelings for someone get in the way of enjoying his/her music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Yes, with Sinatra and the Rat Pack. . . . I can't enjoy their music, I think the personalities influence that, but I don't find much in the music itself to drag me in. . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Keith Jarrett. Der's legends...out in the hills of Jersey...of him acting rude to record store workers..."Sorry, I'm on my time.". And those charming articles in the NY Times...what's up with that damm grunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 One of the reasons I never was a big fan of Stan Kenton were the charges I keep hearing that he was racist. If you look into the history of Kenton's band, there is a decided lack of African-American players in that band. Don't know if this issue ever got into print, but in LA, that's what I keep hearing, and it has stopped me from listening to a lot of Kenton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ariceffron Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 do you think anyone back in the 60s used to take lsd and go see kentons orchestra. that would be intense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ariceffron Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 from the INTERNET: In message <1d8.433711.2b5acb5c at aol.com>, JimDBB at aol.com writes > >MIke Vax was an essential part of Stank Kenton's band for some years. I >asked him about these rumors that Stan Kenton was a 'racist.' Here is his >reply. >Jim Beebe > >"That rumor was pretty much started by Ken Burns in his infinite stupidity! > >In the book that went along with the wonderfully full of BS - PBS crap that >he put out, he sites that Stan once voted for George Wallace. He actually >joked about that on the bus one day and said that the only reason he >voted for him was that he was sick and tired of all the lies and BS that the >politicians were putting out, and Wallace >was the only one that spoke what he really felt. (That never made it into >Burn's book.) >Stan had many black musicians tour with the band, including Charlie >Parker, Dizzy, Ernie Royal and others. The main reason that more blacks >didn't play on the band had nothing to do with Stan's personality or his >political beliefs. Black jazz players did not want to play the kind of music >that Stan was performing and recording, because it wasn't swing oriented >and they weren't drawn to it. Very rarely did blacks ever audition for the >band. > >Stan Kenton loved ALL kinds of people. He was one of the nicest, kindest >and most respectful human beings that I ever met. He was also one of the >very best band leaders in the way he treated all the musicians on the >band." > >Mike Vax --- >_______________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 (edited) from the INTERNET: In message <1d8.433711.2b5acb5c at aol.com>, JimDBB at aol.com writes > >MIke Vax was an essential part of Stank Kenton's band for some years. I >asked him about these rumors that Stan Kenton was a 'racist.' Here is his >reply. >Jim Beebe > >"That rumor was pretty much started by Ken Burns in his infinite stupidity! > __________________ That is just pure BS. This issue about Kenton was very strong way before Burns ever even heard of Kenton. So to blame this on Ken Burns, of all people, is just evading the issue. Edited April 21, 2004 by Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete C Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 I thought the Gary Peacock was a pretty bad sport when he refused to play behind Elvis Costello at Konitz's birthday gig, but he's still one of my favorite bassists. I guess both Jarrett & Peacock can be prima donnas. However, I heard the most glowing reports about what a great, down-to-earth guy DeJohnette is from a friend who worked with him once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete C Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 do you think anyone back in the 60s used to take lsd and go see kentons orchestra. that would be intense I don't expect there was much overlap between acid & Kenton. Don Ellis, on the other hand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tapscott Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 >"That rumor was pretty much started by Ken Burns in his infinite stupidity! > __________________ That is just pure BS. This issue about Kenton was very strong way before Burns ever even heard of Kenton. So to blame this on Ken Burns, of all people, is just evading the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Once read a story about Gerry Mulligan cashing in the concert fee for the whole band in advance, and when the band walked on stage, there was one missing - Mulligan himself, who had boarded a plane back to New York with the band money. Now that is evil ... really turned me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfricaBrass Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Once read a story about Gerry Mulligan cashing in the concert fee for the whole band in advance, and when the band walked on stage, there was one missing - Mulligan himself, who had boarded a plane back to New York with the band money. Now that is evil ... really turned me off. That is EVIL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 I don't expect musicians, composers, writers, directors, actors, or artists of any type to be nice folks that you'd love to pal around with. You've got to be able to separate the work from the person. If I couldn't do that, I'd own a hell of a lot less books and records. Having said that, though, hearing that someone whose work you admire also happens to be a decent human being is certainly a plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 At one point I had dumped all of my Stan Getz cd's because of the stories I heard about him but then I started thinking about other musicians who weren't perfect human beings-like say for instance Miles and I decided that if I was going to be that way for one then I was going to have to be that way for all and I wasn't willing to do that. There's nothing wrong with digging the music but yet rejecting the personal shortcomings of the musician. Getz and Miles were otherwordly musicians but they definitely were not saints and since I'm not a saint either to put it mildly I really had to rethink my position and that's what I did. I've started reintroducing Getz into my collection and will add more of his music into my collection as time goes along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Just listen to the music. IMHO For the most part for me it's really hard to judge someone one way or the other without knowing them personally. I've known a lot of musicians with "bad reps" that I got along fine with - and some that I didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Just listen to the music. Best possible advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 (edited) I have never been one to allow an artist's personal failings to affect my appreciation of his or her art. I can, and do, enjoy the music of Miles Davis despite his horrid treatment of women and the music of Stan Getz despite his alcohol fueled spousal and child abuse. I enjoy the poetry of T.S. Eliot despite the fact that he was an antisemite and the novels of Luis Ferdinand Celine desipte the fact that he was a Nazi collaborator. Django Reinhardt was a first class flake who skipped out on nearly as many gigs as he played (as did Hank Williams), Bird stole from friends (and nearly anyone else he could take advantage of), and Bud Powell did some really hateful things (such as leading George Shearing into an intersection and then leaving him there). There is really no excuse for such behavior, but that doesn't affect my ability to enjoy the art created by these men. I think somebody should make a compliation album titled "Great Artists, Lousy Human Beings." There are certainly enough people who fit that description to make it a two-CD set at least, possibly even a box set. Edited April 22, 2004 by Alexander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Kenton was probasbly not a racist, but his popular image in his heyday was that of jazz' "Great White Hope", and he seemed more than willing to play into that image. Naivete is an "excuse" for only so long. Eventually you have to either really believe it or else play along with it for your personal gain. As well, several biographers (and sidemen) have noted that Kenton's political views were of the far-right, John Birch Society type. Of course, that is not automatically a cause to suspect racism, but it's not automatically a cause to suspect the man of being a crusader for progress in race relations, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrome Posted April 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 the novels of Luis Ferdinand Celine desipte the fact that he was a Nazi collaborator. Coincidentally, I just read his first two books ... pretty good stuff here, especially "Journey to the end of night." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 What about Miles?? My wife brought this up in conversation over dinner, just last night. How do we resolve our enjoyment of his music, with his deplorable behavior towards women?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 What about Miles?? My wife brought this up in conversation over dinner, just last night. How do we resolve our enjoyment of his music, with his deplorable behavior towards women?? Stop reading bios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 I keep thinking about Jimmy's reported behavior as well. It doesn't bother me, I think it's hilarious and think Chappelle aught to do a skit about it but JS is probably not mainstream enough for people to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 I enjoy the poetry of T.S. Eliot despite the fact that he was an antisemite and the novels of Luis Ferdinand Celine desipte the fact that he was a Nazi collaborator. Regarding L-F Celine -- what exactly consituted his collaboration with the Nazis? I presume you were talking about the years of the Vichy regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 LFC was an overt anti-semite who wrote several very nasty pamphlets and articles in the years just before and also during the occupation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 LFC was an overt anti-semite who wrote several very nasty pamphlets and articles in the years just before and also during the occupation. I know that. I think he wrote 3 anti-semitic pamphlets and was indicted by the French courts for that. It was before WWII. I couldn't find any information on the web that would be at least a little bit more descriptive than that. Especially the part about him being a Nazi collaborator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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