"Falling Water"

[JSngry]

Can you hear how Gil's accoustical pallate was being stretched to the limit? Synthesizers, electric bass, and all that followed seem inevitable when listening to this cut. There were colors that couldn't be gotten any other way, it seems to me. It took him a few years to get there (the Ampex album being another notable "can't get there without 'em" effort to do just that), but get there he did.

[JSngry]

Was anybody as surprised as I was when they heard this cut for the first time?

[bertrand]

I haven't listened to this track with much concentration yet (I only have it on tape so far), but here's the thing about it that really surprised me.

It was recorded 2/15/68 with the following instrumentation:

Miles Davis (tpt); Julius Watkins (frh); Ray Alonge (frh); Howard Johnson (tuba); Wayne Shorter (ts); Hubert Laws (fl); Danny Bank (fl, alto fl); Romeo Penque (engl horn); Karl Porter (bssn); Gloria Agostini (harp); Betty Glamann (harp); Herb Bushler (Hawaiian g); Joe Beck (g); Lawrence Lucie (mandolin); Herbie Hancock (el-p); Ron Carter (B); Tony Williams (d); Warren Smith (mba, tymp); Gil Evans (arr, cond)

Unusual instrumentation, to say the least, especially the Hawaiian guitar and Mandolin. And Wayne Shorter is on tenor.

On 8/22/69, Wayne Shorter copyrighted an as-yet unrecorded (and probably unperformed) 20-page score entitled 'Universe' (with the original title 'Virgin Night' scratched out on the copyright deposit). It says on the score: 'Composed by Wayne Shorter 1969; orchestration by Wayne Shorter; arranged by Wayne Shorter'.

Here's the instrumentation:

C flute

Alto flute

English horn

French Horn (2)

Bassoon (2)

Tuba

Trumpet (on some pages, it says 'Miles')

Bflat Saxophone (on some pages, it says 'Me' or 'Wayne')

Electric Piano

Marimba

Timpani

Hawaiian Guitar

Mandolin

Guitar

Fender Bass (or Bass on some pages)

Drums

Harp

The only fundamental difference is that 'Falling Water' has 2 harps and one bassoon, whereas 'Universe' has one harp and two bassoons; also Warren Smith plays both the tympani and the marimba parts on 'Falling Water', which is certainly plausible, even if two distinct parts were written out.

So, how did Gil and Wayne wind up both writing a score for the same unorthodox combination of instruments? I had a friend look at the score and listen to 'Falling Water' at the same time (I had to drag my walkman to the Library of Congress), and she said they were not at all the same pieces.

Very puzzling...

Bertrand.

[bertrand]

Jim,

Your comment about colors is all the more intriguing when you know how important they are to Wayne when he describes his music. Someone told me that a friend of his played with Wayne briefly in the 80s (Gary Willis perhaps), and Wayne's only directions for one piece was 'think green'.

I wonder how many hours Wayne and Gil spent discussing music (oh, to be a fly on the wall for those conversations). It's really a shame how little they wound up collaborating (Individualism of Gil Evans is a masterpiece). I wish Columbia would issue the Berkeley concert where the quintet performed a few tracks with the Gil Evans Orchestra (including 'Antigua' and 'You Make Me Feel Like A Natural Woman'). I think they found a tape in Miles' stuff...

Bertrand.

[JSngry]

Yeah, colors. Such an important element in the way some people hear and write.

It's funny, but as much as I love ALEGRIA, there were moments in the scored ensemble passages when I found myself thinking how much "better" it would have sounded with synthesizers at least added to the traditional instrumentation. Heresy in some quarters, I know, but the colors that the electronic instruments in the right hands have become such a natural part of my "hearing" that I instinctively hear certain things with them in mind.

Gil, Wayne, & Zawinul have gone a long way towards enabling me to hear electronic textures as being as potentially "natural" as accoustic ones, and I thank them profusely for that!

[Rooster_Ties]

So, how did Gil and Wayne wind up both writing a score for the same unorthodox combination of instruments? I had a friend look at the score and listen to 'Falling Water' at the same time (I had to drag my walkman to the Library of Congress), and she said they were not at all the same pieces.

Very puzzling...

I'm assuming this is high on our list of questions to have Wayne answer at some point??

Wouldn't the same instrumentation suggest that perhaps the piece was actually performed (or rehearsed, I should probably say) -- at the same sessions as for Falling Water??

What a puzzle, for sure!!!

[JSngry]

Wouldn't the same instrumentation suggest that perhaps the piece was actually performed (or rehearsed, I should probably say) -- at the same sessions as for Falling Water??

Perhaps it was written for the Berkeley concert? But not performed because of it's length and/or difficulty? "Falling Water" seems to have been a "challenge in and of itself, and w/not unlimited studio/rehearsal time...

Just a conjecture.

[Rooster_Ties]

Is the line-up (or at least the instrumentation) known for that live concert with Miles and Gil from '68??

Also, I didn't think any tapes of it were known to exist.

[medjuck]

Is the line-up (or at least the instrumentation) known for that live concert with Miles and Gil from '68??

Also, I didn't think any tapes of it were known to exist.

I remember I once corresponded with someone who claimed to have heard a tape.I thought it was Peter Losin, but I just looked at his site and he's not sure such a tape exists.

[Pete C]

Gil, Wayne, & Zawinul have gone a long way towards enabling me to hear electronic textures as being as potentially "natural" as accoustic ones, and I thank them profusely for that!

I'll add Muhal Richard Abrams to that list.