CJ Shearn Posted April 28, 2003 Report Posted April 28, 2003 what are your picks for sessions that looked great on paper but kind of fell flat on record? Here are some of mine: The Nearness of You-Michael Brecker: This session had some great possibilities with Herbie, Pat Metheny, Jack DeJohnette, and James Taylor as guest (who did a credible job) but the slow tempos really got things to be kind of stale fast. Directions in Music: Live at Massey Hall: again, great lineup but the energy level is kind of low at points even though it is a good album. A bootleg I have from a few months prior smokes the released show. Off the Top- Jimmy Smith. What could have been a old fashioned BN blowing date is kind of slowed by material as "Endless Love" which comes off as kinda cheesy. Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted April 29, 2003 Report Posted April 29, 2003 (edited) Excellent choice for a thread, but I'll have to think a bit about this one... Actually, there is one CD I recently got, which falls pretty flat for me, despite the names in the line-up... Stanley Cowell's "Setup" (1995, Steeplechase). Stanley Cowell - Piano Eddie Henderson - Trumpet Rick Margitza - Sax (Tenor) Dick Griffin - Trombone Peter Washington - Bass Billy Hart - Drums To my ears, none of the players were "on" that day, and the trombone player, Dick Griffin (who I've never heard of otherwise) nearly ruins every other tune on the disc. (Well, he's not quite that bad - but his intonation is really lousy in a number of places). I usually like Eddie Henderson in most contexts, but he sounds under-rehearsed here (as does the entire group), and tentitive in some of his solos. Margitza is usually OK in my book too, but this wasn't his best day either. Anybody else have this CD, and think similarly?? (Or differently?? - are my ears on wrong???) It just doesn't sound anywhere near what I hoped for, and really - several of the tracks are pretty crappy (or at least lifeless) in the perfomance department. Cowell is often one of my favorite piano players, but not on this date.... Edited April 29, 2003 by Rooster_Ties Quote
Big Al Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 Glad I did some searchin', I knew there'd been a thread about this somewhere. A FICKLE SONANCE Jackie McLean - alto sax Tommy Turrentine - trumpet Sonny Clark - piano Butch Warren - bass Billy Higgins - drums Would someone PLEASE tell me why this album bores me to tears? I mean, Jackie Mac is only one of my favorite alto players (if not THE favorite) and a lot of times is THE definition of jazz for me; Sonny Clark? Did he ever NOT swing? Smilin' Billy, again another favorite and, Art Blakey notwithstanding, THE definition of swing for me. And this same trio (Clark/Warren/Higgins) backed Dex on the magical sessions that produced GO and A SWINGIN' AFFAIR, not to mention Sonny's own LEAPIN & LOPIN. Was this one of those rare instances where EVERYONE was having an off-day? Or am I the only one who's missing the obvious? Quote
Popkin Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 Wayne Shorter's Soothsayer Wayne Shorter James Spaulding Freddie Hubbard McCoy Tyner Ron Carter Tony Williams I think you'd have a hard time finding a better group of musicians, but this album always struck me as dull. I can't say why exactly (I haven't listened to it for quite some time). Maybe it has something to do with Tyner and Williams not being a good fit? Quote
AndrewHill Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 Glad I did some searchin', I knew there'd been a thread about this somewhere. A FICKLE SONANCE Jackie McLean - alto sax Tommy Turrentine - trumpet Sonny Clark - piano Butch Warren - bass Billy Higgins - drums Would someone PLEASE tell me why this album bores me to tears? I'd say give it another try-there's some amazing playing on this disc, especially Butch's. I see this album as a segway between the hard-bop that he was trying to leave and the post-bop/avant garde that he was to explore on albums such as Let Fredom Ring, One Step Beyond and Destination Out! ps: I was not impressed with the RVG treatment of this one-it sounds like it was recorded in a can! Quote
Dan Gould Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 I see this album as a segway between the hard-bop that he was trying to leave and the post-bop/avant garde that he was to explore on albums such as Let Fredom Ring, One Step Beyond and Destination Out! Pretty sure you don't mean this kind of segway but maybe this kind Main Entry: segue Function: intransitive verb Inflected Form(s): se·gued; se·gue·ing Date: circa 1913 1 : to proceed without pause from one musical number or theme to another 2 : to make a transition without interruption from one activity, topic, scene, or part to another <segued smoothly into the next story> Quote
WorldB3 Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 Wayne Shorter's Soothsayer Wayne Shorter James Spaulding Freddie Hubbard McCoy Tyner Ron Carter Tony Williams I think you'd have a hard time finding a better group of musicians, but this album always struck me as dull. I can't say why exactly (I haven't listened to it for quite some time). Maybe it has something to do with Tyner and Williams not being a good fit? How could it not feel flat compared to Speak No Evil, JuJu, Etc and Adams Apple? It’s a four star record compared to a five but still solid with some very good compositions on it. I didn’t think about it before but you may be right about the Williams and Tyner pairing in that I can’t think of any other Blue Notes with that combo off the top of my head. I think that may have something to do with a lack of fire but I also think of Soothsayer has a composition focus rather then a blowing one. Quote
Big Al Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 ps: I was not impressed with the RVG treatment of this one-it sounds like it was recorded in a can! There's a lot to be said for that. Maybe if I ever find a TOCJ of it, I'll hear something different. That was certainly the case with READY FOR FREDDIE. Quote
Peter Friedman Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 Glad I did some searchin', I knew there'd been a thread about this somewhere. A FICKLE SONANCE Jackie McLean - alto sax Tommy Turrentine - trumpet Sonny Clark - piano Butch Warren - bass Billy Higgins - drums Would someone PLEASE tell me why this album bores me to tears? I mean, Jackie Mac is only one of my favorite alto players (if not THE favorite) and a lot of times is THE definition of jazz for me; Sonny Clark? Did he ever NOT swing? Smilin' Billy, again another favorite and, Art Blakey notwithstanding, THE definition of swing for me. And this same trio (Clark/Warren/Higgins) backed Dex on the magical sessions that produced GO and A SWINGIN' AFFAIR, not to mention Sonny's own LEAPIN & LOPIN. Was this one of those rare instances where EVERYONE was having an off-day? Or am I the only one who's missing the obvious? Once again here is more evidence that taste is a very personal thing. This album has always been one I like a lot. Everyone sounds great to me on this one. Quote
BruceH Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 (edited) Glad I did some searchin', I knew there'd been a thread about this somewhere. A FICKLE SONANCE Jackie McLean - alto sax Tommy Turrentine - trumpet Sonny Clark - piano Butch Warren - bass Billy Higgins - drums Would someone PLEASE tell me why this album bores me to tears? I mean, Jackie Mac is only one of my favorite alto players (if not THE favorite) and a lot of times is THE definition of jazz for me; Sonny Clark? Did he ever NOT swing? Smilin' Billy, again another favorite and, Art Blakey notwithstanding, THE definition of swing for me. And this same trio (Clark/Warren/Higgins) backed Dex on the magical sessions that produced GO and A SWINGIN' AFFAIR, not to mention Sonny's own LEAPIN & LOPIN. Was this one of those rare instances where EVERYONE was having an off-day? Or am I the only one who's missing the obvious? I'm halfway with you here. Personally, I think the album is a mixed bag, with some very good compositions, and some that are a bit on the dull side, but it doesn't hang together well as an album. I love the track "Enitnerrut" for one. Also, it's supposedly one of the worst RVG's soundwise, as ghost pointed out----a lot of others would agree with him. This might add to the sense of it just sitting there (if you've got the RVG.) Edited October 22, 2008 by BruceH Quote
BillF Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 Glad I did some searchin', I knew there'd been a thread about this somewhere. A FICKLE SONANCE Jackie McLean - alto sax Tommy Turrentine - trumpet Sonny Clark - piano Butch Warren - bass Billy Higgins - drums Would someone PLEASE tell me why this album bores me to tears? I mean, Jackie Mac is only one of my favorite alto players (if not THE favorite) and a lot of times is THE definition of jazz for me; Sonny Clark? Did he ever NOT swing? Smilin' Billy, again another favorite and, Art Blakey notwithstanding, THE definition of swing for me. And this same trio (Clark/Warren/Higgins) backed Dex on the magical sessions that produced GO and A SWINGIN' AFFAIR, not to mention Sonny's own LEAPIN & LOPIN. Was this one of those rare instances where EVERYONE was having an off-day? Or am I the only one who's missing the obvious? Once again here is more evidence that taste is a very personal thing. This album has always been one I like a lot. Everyone sounds great to me on this one. I'll support that, Peter. In fact, I'll put it on now! Quote
Larry Kart Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 Agree about that Cowell album and the trombone player. Quote
AndrewHill Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 I see this album as a segway between the hard-bop that he was trying to leave and the post-bop/avant garde that he was to explore on albums such as Let Fredom Ring, One Step Beyond and Destination Out! Pretty sure you don't mean this kind of segway but maybe this kind Main Entry: segue Function: intransitive verb Inflected Form(s): se·gued; se·gue·ing Date: circa 1913 1 : to proceed without pause from one musical number or theme to another 2 : to make a transition without interruption from one activity, topic, scene, or part to another <segued smoothly into the next story> The latter Momentary lapse of concentration. Quote
AndrewHill Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 Glad I did some searchin', I knew there'd been a thread about this somewhere. A FICKLE SONANCE Jackie McLean - alto sax Tommy Turrentine - trumpet Sonny Clark - piano Butch Warren - bass Billy Higgins - drums Would someone PLEASE tell me why this album bores me to tears? I mean, Jackie Mac is only one of my favorite alto players (if not THE favorite) and a lot of times is THE definition of jazz for me; Sonny Clark? Did he ever NOT swing? Smilin' Billy, again another favorite and, Art Blakey notwithstanding, THE definition of swing for me. And this same trio (Clark/Warren/Higgins) backed Dex on the magical sessions that produced GO and A SWINGIN' AFFAIR, not to mention Sonny's own LEAPIN & LOPIN. Was this one of those rare instances where EVERYONE was having an off-day? Or am I the only one who's missing the obvious? I'm halfway with you here. Personally, I think the album is a mixed bag, with some very good compositions, and some that are a bit on the dull side, but it doesn't hang together well as an album. I love the track "Enitnerrut" for one. Also, it's supposedly one of the worst RVG's soundwise, as ghost pointed out----a lot of others would agree with him. This might add to the sense of it just sitting there (if you've got the RVG.) Along with "Enitnerrut" I wanted to add that "A Fickle Sonance" is another standout track, IMO; some amazing playing by Butch here. Quote
seeline Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 (edited) Tadd Dameron's "The Magic Touch." Should have been great, judging from all those names. I guess it goes to show that even the best have their off days, just like the rest of us. Tadd Dameron Joe Wilder Clark Terry Ernie Royal Charlie Shavers Jimmy Cleveland Britt Woodman Julius Watkins Leo Wright Jerry Dodgion Jerome Richardson Johnny Griffin Tate Houston Bill Evans George Duvivier Ron Carter Philly Joe Jones Edited October 22, 2008 by seeline Quote
Larry Kart Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 Tadd Dameron's "The Magic Touch." Should have been great, judging from all those names. I guess it goes to show that even the best have their off days, just like the rest of us. Tadd Dameron Joe Wilder Clark Terry Ernie Royal Charlie Shavers Jimmy Cleveland Britt Woodman Julius Watkins Leo Wright Jerry Dodgion Jerome Richardson Johnny Griffin Tate Houston Bill Evans George Duvivier Ron Carter Philly Joe Jones Very few of those Riverside medium-sized to big band dates came off IMO. Engineering, Keepnews, some routine-oriented players, etc. Quote
T.D. Posted October 23, 2008 Report Posted October 23, 2008 Glad I did some searchin', I knew there'd been a thread about this somewhere. A FICKLE SONANCE ... Would someone PLEASE tell me why this album bores me to tears? I mean, Jackie Mac is only one of my favorite alto players (if not THE favorite) and a lot of times is THE definition of jazz for me; Sonny Clark? Did he ever NOT swing? Smilin' Billy, again another favorite and, Art Blakey notwithstanding, THE definition of swing for me. And this same trio (Clark/Warren/Higgins) backed Dex on the magical sessions that produced GO and A SWINGIN' AFFAIR, not to mention Sonny's own LEAPIN & LOPIN. Was this one of those rare instances where EVERYONE was having an off-day? Or am I the only one who's missing the obvious? I'm halfway with you here. Personally, I think the album is a mixed bag, with some very good compositions, and some that are a bit on the dull side, but it doesn't hang together well as an album. I love the track "Enitnerrut" for one. Also, it's supposedly one of the worst RVG's soundwise, as ghost pointed out----a lot of others would agree with him. This might add to the sense of it just sitting there (if you've got the RVG.) Along with "Enitnerrut" I wanted to add that "A Fickle Sonance" is another standout track, IMO; some amazing playing by Butch here. I really like "Five Will Get You Ten", and sometimes play the CD to hear that tune. Agree that the album's uneven, but I don't find it too disappointing. The sound quality of the RVG is really horrible (I've heard it called the "AM radio RVG"), so I don't listen to the disc that often. It sounds like it was recorded in a toilet stall; maybe Sen. Larry Craig was moonlighting as an engineer... Quote
seeline Posted October 23, 2008 Report Posted October 23, 2008 Very few of those Riverside medium-sized to big band dates came off IMO. Engineering, Keepnews, some routine-oriented players, etc. I hear you - for me, it's particularly disappointing to have had this happen with an entire LP's-worth of Tadd's music. Quote
Big Al Posted October 23, 2008 Report Posted October 23, 2008 Very few of those Riverside medium-sized to big band dates came off IMO. Engineering, Keepnews, some routine-oriented players, etc. I hear you - for me, it's particularly disappointing to have had this happen with an entire LP's-worth of Tadd's music. I, OTOH, really enjoy this album, as well as most of these kinds of Riverside dates (Cannonball's "African Waltz" notwithstanding). The Jimmy Heath albums, the Blue Mitchell albums, this album..... I love 'em all! Different strokes, I guess. Quote
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