John Mclaughlin instructional DVD

[Joe G]

Well, I've seen a little more, and I agree with you that this is not for beginners. The more music (and theory) you have under your belt, the better off you'll be. I saw the part about the "triads", and I thought the same as you, that he was pretty loose with his definitions, though I understood his point that 3 note structures can be constructed in many ways. I did find the chapters on chromatics a bit disappointing in that he didn't really give us much analysis of his approach ("There's a lot of notes in there - work at it!") But, if you've got some grounding in this, it's all there in the notated examples. Guess he's a do-it-yourself kinda guy.

  Quote

The drag is that the starting theory concepts ARE very rudimentary - playing the modes in thirds up and down, etc. We'll see how things progress.

As I mentioned, he throws out some pretty difficult-looking exercises not too far into the chapters. Lots of cool stuff in harmonic and melodic minor modes.

[Joe G]

Instead of going to bed at 10:30, I stayed up with this thing until after midnight. I've checked out almost all the playing examples/playalong sections, and they do indeed become more challenging and inspiring. The odd meter tracks are fun (one of them, in 11/4, is based on his tune "5 in the morning, 6 in the afternoon"). He also brings in three other compositions of his, one called Fallen Angels, and the other two I didn't catch the names of. I'll have to track them down. The latter two are very difficult, in fact quite a bit out of my reach at the moment. I'll have to work at those.

There was at least one "a-HA" moment for me: in the discussion about odd meters, he said that the way to play fluently on them is to find a "transition point", by which he meant a beat or beats inside the bar that you can play towards the upcoming "one" from. This was something I figured out back when we were working up our tune "Meet Me @ 11". Nice to get confirmation that way.

One thing I wish this set came with is a book containing all the exercises and chord charts. That would have been very helpful, though probably more expensive.

[Uncle Skid]

  Joe G said:

One thing I wish this set came with is a book containing all the exercises and chord charts. That would have been very helpful, though probably more expensive.

←

Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but the exercises are available as PDF files -- check out tablatures of the demonstrations and download PDF.

[Joe G]

That could be - I can't open this at work. Thanks, though.

[Sundog]

Any more impressions on this instructional DVD? I have an opportunity to pick up a used copy for $100 and I'm still on the fence.

[Joe G]

Well, I tend to work mostly with the play-along sections, which are pretty hip and range from easy to (at the moment) out of my reach. The strange thing is that they aren't at standard pitch, so you have to tune sharp just a bit. No biggie. I've worked with his scale exercises a little, but I don't have a huge interest in that sort of thing nowdays. I have also not felt compelled to learn any lines from the solos, though there are some rippin' ones.

Overall I'd say I'm happy with this purchase.

[Sundog]

Decided not to buy this. Just not enough material on it that interests me at the moment. From the little I've been able to gather, it looks to be very well done and certainly will raise the bar for instructional DVDs.

[Joe G]

From Abstract Logix:

Coming in 2007 : John McLaughlin Konakkol DVD /with Selvaganesh, Vikku Vinayakram (Ablx Release)

Couldn't find any other info, but I'm interested.

[Joe G]

And it doesn't bother me a bit that I'm the only one!

[7/4]

Oh no, I'm with you. I looked at Abstract Logix and I couldn't find any mention about it. I guess it's a session with some Shatki/Carnatic musicans.

I'm always looking forward to hear what John is up to. I do wish he'd quit screwing around with gear though. If he'd take that archtop and just plug it into a nice amp. Leave the plug ins and the synths at home and give me an album with a more straight ahead/traditional tone. If Stanley is too busy elsewhere with his upright, maybe John could get some younger cat to play bass.

Don't change the music, just the equipment...

edited so it makes sense...

Edited April 19, 2007 by 7/4

[7/4]

  Joe G said:

(Ablx Release)

Does that mean it's on the Abstract Logix label?

[Joe G]

I guess so (about the Abstract label)... what I'm guessing/hoping this is, is an instructional dvd teaching the rudiments of konakkal which, as I'm sure you know, is the Indian classical method for learning rhythm. There are some pics from the session on John's website.

Yeah, the midi guitar doesn't sound too hot.

[robertoart]

Yeh McLaughlins tone is always shifting. One of my favourite sessions ever is After the Rain with Defrancesco and Elvin Jones. I guess it would have been a much discussed project on these boards. Always wondered about McLaughlin's sound on that one. Would it be a midi processed chorus effect or a straight through the amp kind of thing? But yeh it would be great to hear him plug into a fender twin and let it rip.

[7/4]

  Joe G said:

the rudiments of konakkal which, as I'm sure you know, is the Indian classical method for learning rhythm.

Sounds like a Carnatic term, I forget what the Hindustani name for this is.

[Joe G]

Just trying to find some general information about konakkol. Here's just a bit I found:

http://www.innerviews.org/inner/shakti.html

For McLaughlin, the idea of balancing the mathematical equations of Indian rhythmic development and the less-studied, more chaos-laden leanings of jazz was natural.

"There is really a great deal of common ground," he said. "The mathematics of rhythm are universal. They don't belong to any particular culture. It's true that the sensuality of rhythm is coupled with the mathematical mind in India. It's not for nothing that India has produced some of the greatest atomic engineers, mathematicians and astronomers—particularly in the 20th century. They even have an observatory that goes back many hundreds of years in which the orbits of planets were calculated. So, you can say it's been developed to a more sophisticated level there than in jazz music. But whether it's from Africa, China, Brazil or Bombay, rhythm is rhythm. If you try to improvise in jazz without some degree of rhythmical mathematical proficiency, you'll be lost by the drummer and flounder."

In Indian classical music, that rhythmical, mathematical proficiency is often taught via solkattu, which refers to the study and expression of spoken rhythms. In performance, the use of these mnemonic syllables is referred to as konakkol. A rough analogy can be made between these techniques and the Western idea of solfege—the application of syllables such as "do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-ti-do" to a musical scale. Solkattu and konakkol are both accompanied by hand patterns that signify the tala which delineates the metric flow of the syllables. McLaughlin has devoted considerable time and energy to comprehending, applying and teaching these techniques.

"Essentially, konakkol is a marvelous system of Indian rhythm that is done without an instrument," explained McLaughlin. "You use your voice and your hands so you don't have to learn a percussion instrument in order to fully understand the simplicity and sophistication of Indian rhythmical traditions. It's a system I highly recommend to all my students, although I don't claim in any way to be a master of konnakol. But as I said, rhythm is really universal and if you can understand konnakol—the most superior system of learning rhythm in the world—you can understand any rhythm from any country on the planet. For example, if I have to communicate something to one of the percussion players in Remember Shakti, I can sing it to them in a rhythmical sense and vice-versa. It could be 'Ta-ka ta-ka ta ta-ka tin day ta.' You then immediately see the mathematics of it. And if you can sing a rhythm, it means you understand what it is and then it's a question of applying it to your instrument."

[Joe G]

  freelancer said:

Yeh McLaughlins tone is always shifting. One of my favourite sessions ever is After the Rain with Defrancesco and Elvin Jones. I guess it would have been a much discussed project on these boards. Always wondered about McLaughlin's sound on that one. Would it be a midi processed chorus effect or a straight through the amp kind of thing? But yeh it would be great to hear him plug into a fender twin and let it rip.

That's a good album. The way he plays on Take the Coltrane is pretty incredible. I think at that time John was playing that Johnny Smith jazz box with some chorus and whatever amp was around. I could be wrong on that, though.

[skeith]

  Joe G said:

  freelancer said:

Yeh McLaughlins tone is always shifting. One of my favourite sessions ever is After the Rain with Defrancesco and Elvin Jones. I guess it would have been a much discussed project on these boards. Always wondered about McLaughlin's sound on that one. Would it be a midi processed chorus effect or a straight through the amp kind of thing? But yeh it would be great to hear him plug into a fender twin and let it rip.

That's a good album. The way he plays on Take the Coltrane is pretty incredible. I think at that time John was playing that Johnny Smith jazz box with some chorus and whatever amp was around. I could be wrong on that, though.

I think it is a good album, but I just dislike his guitar tone on this record- sounds very synthetic to me. I miss the guitar sound.

Edited April 19, 2007 by skeith

[robertoart]

  skeith said:

  Joe G said:

  freelancer said:

Yeh McLaughlins tone is always shifting. One of my favourite sessions ever is After the Rain with Defrancesco and Elvin Jones. I guess it would have been a much discussed project on these boards. Always wondered about McLaughlin's sound on that one. Would it be a midi processed chorus effect or a straight through the amp kind of thing? But yeh it would be great to hear him plug into a fender twin and let it rip.

That's a good album. The way he plays on Take the Coltrane is pretty incredible. I think at that time John was playing that Johnny Smith jazz box with some chorus and whatever amp was around. I could be wrong on that, though.

I think it is a good album, but I just dislike his guitar tone on this record- sounds very synthetic to me. I miss the guitar sound.

Oh yeh! Take the Coltrane! Great tune. Great performance. From the live clips I found on youtube it seems like McLaughlin was replicating the same tone live as on the record. Seems like that must have been the sound he wanted for that project. Makes an interesting comparison with Pat Martino's approach to his organ trio project with Defrancesco.

[7/4]

John McLaughlin at MySpace.com

[Joe G]

Ah, so September is the release date. Cool.

[Joe G]

September 13th.

http://www.abstractlogix.com/xcart/product...productid=23241

Only about 28 bucks. That's a LOT cheaper than the previous instructional release.

[7/4]

  Joe G said:

September 13th.

http://www.abstractlogix.com/xcart/product...productid=23241

Only about 28 bucks. That's a LOT cheaper than the previous instructional release.

At that price I may get a copy someday. I hope it stays in print.

[7/4]

  Joe G said:

September 13th.

http://www.abstractlogix.com/xcart/product...productid=23241

Only about 28 bucks. That's a LOT cheaper than the previous instructional release.

Did you get a copy Joe?

[Joe G]

Nope, not yet.

[7/4]

I can put it off. I have a pile of books and scores I need to get through.

There is a bit of discussion about this DVD in rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz