Coltrane's "Cosmic Music" Session

[mikeweil]

660202          JOHN COLTRANE SEXTET:

Personnel: John Coltrane, tenor saxophone, bass clarinet; Pharoah Sanders, tenor saxophone, flute, piccolo; Alice Coltrane, piano; Jimmy Garrison, bass; Rashied Ali, drums; Ray Appleton, perc

Location: 'Coast Records', San Francisco CA

Date: 2/2/66

Engineer: Rudy Hill

a. "Manifestation" (J. Coltrane) 11:44

CRC AU4950; Imp AS9223-2 more

b. "Reverend King" (J. Coltrane) 10:45

CRC AU4950 more

c. "Peace On Earth" (J. Coltrane) 9:03

Imp A9225, IA9360 more

d. "Leo" (J. Coltrane) 10:08

Imp A9225 more

NOTE:Sanders plays pic and ts on 660202a; Coltrane plays bcl and ts on 660202b. See Note for a discussion of this session.

Note to 660202.  Coltrane and other group members chant "Ah-um-mani-padme-hum" to open and close 660202b. The titles listed here were originally recorded by the six musicians listed here; at that session Alice Coltrane played only piano; and Jimmy Garrison was the only bassist. In 1972 Ms. Coltrane overdubbed herself on vibes and organ, added a string section, and substituted bass parts by Charlie Haden for Garrison's original parts on two titles: 660202c "Peace On Earth" and 660202d "Leo". These overdubbed versions were issued on "Infinity" Imp A9225. An unaltered version of "Peace On Earth" (660202c) was later released on "Jupiter Variation" Imp IA9360. As a further complication to an already complicated session, there is persuasive evidence that both 660202a "Manifestation" and 660202d "Leo" are excerpts edited from a single extended recording of "Leo".

Source: David Wild's Wild Place

Thanks to king ubu (feel hugged for this nice surprise) I was finally listening to Manifestation and Reverend King from this session and kick myself for selling the Jupiter Variation LP with the original version of Peace on Earth.

Now I wonder why in all the world the four titles of the session have never been reissued on a single disc - 40 minutes is better than nothing - and if the original tape still exists in the Coltrane vaults. Ravi go searching! Sure would like to hear this!

[couw]

and if Manifestation and Leo are really part of one performance, how much music is missing? There is at least one VERY ugly edit at 10:03 in the Manifestation track.

Trane's tenor sound is a gripping as ever and Sanders isn't too obtrusive and mostly stick to flute or tenor playing that is more substantial than the occasional howl (end rant). So this was a very welcome surprise from our birthday boy Ubu for me as well.

I have never heard Infinity nor Jupiter Variations.

[.:.impossible]

How are the overdubs? These are sessions that I have not heard.

[JSngry]

The overdubs are not bad, they're just not what was originally played. And they're overdubs of the "obvious" type, which irks me just a little. I mean, I dig Alice, but...

I think I've heard that the tracks w/overdubs have actually had the orignal playing erased, but I can't say that with any reliability. If that's really true, then .

[couw]

correct me if I am wrong please:

- Manifestation is heard only on Cosmic Music and has some ugly edits

- Reverend King is also on CM and sounds all fine and dandy there (to me).

- Peace on Earth is available in overdubbed form on Infinity and without overdubs on Jupiter Variation

- Leo is only available in overdubbed and probably edited form on Infinity

Does anyone have both the overdubbed and non-overdubbed version of PoEarth? How do these compare and how 'bad' are the overdubs/New bass parts?

If Manifestation and Leo are excerpts from one longer performance, how do these two compare, also with respect to the overdubs? (Trane seems to have recorded quite many versions of Leo in 66 and 67 BTW.)

final question: why o why o why?

[Late]

A fun mess to sort out! I'm not sure if I'm really helping here, but let me offer some more information ...

• All of the tracks discussed here ("Manifestation," "Reverend King," "Peace on Earth," and "Leo") have been available on compact disc since 1987 and 1990, respectively. Jupiter Variation was reissued by BMG Germany in 1987, and Cosmic Music was reissued by MCA Japan in 1990.

• I don't think "Leo" is from the same session as "Manifestation." The former is from the Interstellar Space session, and the latter is from a February 2, 1966 concert in San Francisco. I've never heard "Leo" with any overdubs.

• Here is what my liner notes say about "Peace on Earth":

John Coltrane: tenor saxophone

Alice Coltrane: piano

Charlie Haden: bass

Rashied Ali: drums

Pharoah Sanders: tambourine, wooden flute

Ray Appleton: shakers

Recorded at Coast Recorders, San Francisco on February 2, 1966. Alice Coltrane replaced her piano part and Charlie Haden replaced Jimmy Garrison's bass part at Village Recorders, Los Angeles, in April, 1972. A string section was also overdubbed at this time. "Peace on Earth" is released here without the string section.

So, judging from these notes, it looks like Alice's original part, and all of Jimmy Garrison's playing, may be (permanently?) lost.

I'll listen to the four tracks under discussion in coming days, and will post if anything else jumps out at me.

[king ubu]

...

Thanks to king ubu (feel hugged for this nice surprise) I was finally listening to Manifestation and Reverend King from this session and kick myself for selling the Jupiter Variation LP with the original version of Peace on Earth.

Now I wonder why in all the world the four titles of the session have never been reissued on a single disc - 40 minutes is better than nothing - and if the original tape still exists in the Coltrane vaults. Ravi go searching! Sure would like to hear this!

You know, even if we're a worldly (or otherworldly?) king, we like to spread the gospel

Glad you enjoy it!

And: Ravi go searching, hellyeah!

ubu

[couw]

? I don't think "Leo" is from the same session as "Manifestation." The former is from the Interstellar Space session, and the latter is from a February 2, 1966 concert in San Francisco. I've never heard "Leo" with any overdubs.

I shall check as I have both on CD now, but the site mike listed mentions an awful lot of recordings of Leo during '66 and '67.

[Late]

I shall check as I have both on CD now, but the site Mike listed mentions an awful lot of recordings of Leo during '66 and '67.

Ahh ... gotcha. I should re-listen too.

[brownie]

'Cosmic Music' was first published on Coltrane Records. That was Coltrane Records AU-495O. It had 'Reverend King' and 'Manifestation' plus 'Lord Help Me To Be' with Alice Coltrane and Pharoah Sanders, Jimmy Garrison and Ben Riley plus 'The Sun' which includes an overdubbed prayer chant by Coltrane.

I've always had a grudge against Alice Coltrane for making a mess of these sessions.

[Brandon Burke]

I'm amazed to hear that so many of you don't have the Infinity date. This leads me to believe that it must not be in CD yet.

Haven't played it in ages but I do remember liking it. The overdubs are quite heavy handed, on top of simply being *heavy* (in the aesthetic sense). Very psychedelic as well.

Edited April 18, 2004 by Brandon Burke

[7/4]

I'm amazed to hear that so many of you don't have the Infinity date. This leads me to believe that it must not be in CD yet.

Haven't played it in ages but I do remember liking it. The overdubs are quite heavy handed, on top of simply being *heavy* (in the aesthetic sense). Very psychedelic as well.

It came out in Japan. I found a used copy for $8 about ten years ago. B)

[brownie]

I'm amazed to hear that so many of you don't have the Infinity date. This leads me to believe that it must not be in CD yet.

Haven't played it in ages but I do remember liking it. The overdubs are quite heavy handed, on top of simply being *heavy* (in the aesthetic sense). Very psychedelic as well.

I've always refused to get this album. I enjoy my Coltrane straight!

[mikeweil]

'Cosmic Music' was first published on Coltrane Records. That was Coltrane Records AU-495O. It had 'Reverend King' and 'Manifestation' plus 'Lord Help Me To Be' with Alice Coltrane and Pharoah Sanders, Jimmy Garrison and Ben Riley plus 'The Sun' which includes an overdubbed prayer chant by Coltrane.

I've always had a grudge against Alice Coltrane for making a mess of these sessions.

In this case I guess we will have to wait for Alice's autobiography to clear things up. My speculation is that Coltrane's contract with Impulse was, of course, terminated by his passing, and judging from the short liner notes on the Impulse reissue of Cosmic Music announcing Alice Coltrane having become an Impulse recording artist in her own right by then, this may have taken some negotiations and her "private" release may have been an important agrument on her side: See, I can do it this way, if you don't cooperate ... because we know by now that the unreleased material probably went into the vaults at the Coltrane home and not at Impulse. Maybe she thought she could sell the record better with a combination of her new group and the former with her late husband.

Since the two tracks by Alice's group appeared as bonus tracks on the Impulse CD reissue in very good sound, and Peace On Earth exists in both versions, chances are the original tape of Leo still exists - or it was indeed mixed up with one of the other versions recorded that year. Maybe the edits were the reason for Cuscuna not reissuing these tracks - maybe he still hoped to find the original tapes. It is the only material released on some Impulse LP in the 1960's or 1970's that has not seen a US CD reissue. "Replaced" does not necessarily mean "erased". Seems like it was a multi-track recording, and since, as I said before, the original tape of Peace On Earth still exists ...

That prayer spoken by Coltrane and Sanders was used as an introduction to that track, BTW.

[Chuck Nessa]

My speculation is that Coltrane's contract with Impulse was, of course, terminated by his passing, and judging from the short liner notes on the Impulse reissue of Cosmic Music announcing Alice Coltrane having become an Impulse recording artist in her own right by then, this may have taken some negotiations and her "private" release may have been an important agrument on her side: See, I can do it this way, if you don't cooperate ... because we know by now that the unreleased material probably went into the vaults at the Coltrane home and not at Impulse. Maybe she thought she could sell the record better with a combination of her new group and the former with her late husband

Impulse would properly view any recordings made during their contract to be theirs for commercial exploitation.

Any deal with Alice would have been for expedience.

[mikeweil]

Impulse would properly view any recordings made during their contract to be theirs for commercial exploitation.

Any deal with Alice would have been for expedience.

Technically speaking, couldn't the issue of Cosmic Music on CRC be seen as a violation of the Impulse contract of Coltrane, even if he had initiated this session all by himself? If so, what was the purpose of an issue on a "Coltrane Recording Corporation" and not on Impulse?

Expedience then would mean the avoidance of any legal struggle with Alice as Coltrane's legal heir?

[Chuck Nessa]

Technically speaking, couldn't the issue of Cosmic Music on CRC be seen as a violation of the Impulse contract of Coltrane, even if he had initiated this session all by himself? If so, what was the purpose of an issue on a "Coltrane Recording Corporation" and not on Impulse?

Expedience then would mean the avoidance of any legal struggle with Alice as Coltrane's legal heir?

Correct on both counts, Mike.

Om, Kulu Se Mama and Selflessness were Trane productions delivered to Impulse before his death.

[Guy Berger]

I just listened to downloads of "Manifestation" and "Reverend King" today - wow, these are great performances. Are they in print on CD?

Guy

[brownie]

They are on this Japanese Impulse CD:

[king ubu]

This is slightly off topic... about the Living Space CD: all the material from there is on the Classic Quartet 8CD set, right?

And what exactly is on Infinity that one doesn't have if one has virtually all there is to have on Impulse/GRP CDs? Just a few different versions w/overdubs, or is there anything that's not yet been on any CD?

Where's that little box with all of Trane's late studio sessions, please!?!

[brownie]

And what exactly is on Infinity that one doesn't have if one has virtually all there is to have on Impulse/GRP CDs? Just a few different versions w/overdubs, or is there anything that's not yet been on any CD?

'Infinity' is the only John Coltrane album I am ashamed of having purchased

I wish someone would issue the same material without the tempered material that Alice overdubbed. Eternal shame on her for having defaced the music!

[paul secor]

And what exactly is on Infinity that one doesn't have if one has virtually all there is to have on Impulse/GRP CDs? Just a few different versions w/overdubs, or is there anything that's not yet been on any CD?

'Infinity' is the only John Coltrane album I am ashamed of having purchased

I wish someone would issue the same material without the tempered material that Alice overdubbed. Eternal shame on her for having defaced the music!

There was an interview with Buell Neidlinger in Cadence magazine in which he said that he was doing a session at Village Recorders when Alice Coltrane was doing the overdubs that appeared on Infinity. He claimed that she erased Jimmy Garrison's and her own parts and that the music as it was originally recorded is lost. He was very angry that she had tampered with the music and, if my memory is correct - I no longer have a copy of the interview - he referred to her as a "jiveass broad".

[brownie]

The wikipedia entry for Infinity.

[jazzbo]

Cosmic Music has been reissued (in very good, imo, sound) on the Original Impulse Album Collection, Vol. 4. Infinity music is scheduled for reissue within Vol. 5 in October.

[Guy Berger]

Cosmic Music has been reissued (in very good, imo, sound) on the Original Impulse Album Collection, Vol. 4. Infinity music is scheduled for reissue within Vol. 5 in October.

Is "OM" on that one too?