Joe Lovano

[mrjazzman]

I'm 75 years old, been listening to Jazz since I was 15 (Coltrane Live At Birdland). I've heard many live jazz concerts. Tonight I heard some of the worst live, so called, Jazz ever. Joe Lovano is a low key, low register,  boring (looks boring, sounds boring and plays boring)

purveyor of disjointed, slow elevator music. Why I own 3 of his cd's is beyond me and might go into the garbage. Both of my feet lay flat on the floor never to rise. Julian Lage was trying to sound like Jimi Hendrix. Joe Lovano is an imposter posing as a Jazz Saxophonist. And what is criminal, jazz acts today, young and old can't spell STANDARDS. Nor can they spell SWING. I left after 30 excrutiating minutes. No wonder they had him on a Wednesday night. To all those who love Joe Lovano, just my ears opinion.

Edited Thursday at 03:42 AM by mrjazzman

[Guy Berger]

Counterpoint: Joe Lovano is good

[John L]

9 hours ago, Guy Berger said:

Counterpoint: Joe Lovano is good

Yes

[clifford_thornton]

He can play the saxophone better than I can!

I've seen and certainly enjoyed him but not felt the need to own any of his CDs. I do like him with Motian as well.

[Milestones]

I've never seen/heard Lovano play anything close to a poor concert--and I have probably seen him more than anyone.  I have tons of his records as leader and sideman.  There are some leader dates that didn't work so well (very few), but overall his output his very impressive.  Lovano can play his own material, can play a bit "out," and he is masterful on standards.

I do find his recent ECM records to be overly low-key, and maybe this new group hasn't quite gelled.  I'm kind of intrigued, though, as I have started to enjoy Julian Lage.

 

[kh1958]

The concert I heard at Big Ears a couple weeks ago was excellent. Probably the same band. Julian Lage is terrific and sounds nothing like Jimi Hendrix.

[Dub Modal]

Men get grumpier as they age

It's gonna happen to all of us at some point 

Edited Thursday at 02:33 PM by Dub Modal

[mjzee]

Lovano's not one of my favorites.

[Jason Bivins]

Listen to his quartets at the VV. Dude is great and swings his ass off.

[John Tapscott]

25 years ago, I saw Lovano in a 2 hour concert (on tenor only)  with just Dennis Irwin on bass and Willie Jones III on drums. Joe was just smoking hot that night and honestly, it is one of the best and most memorable jazz concerts I've ever attended, I spoke to him after the concert and he was very friendly and helpful.  

I'm not a big fan of his many of his recordings (there's a few I like). But for some reason his sound on record isn't that good. 

Edited Thursday at 03:41 PM by John Tapscott

[clifford_thornton]

21 minutes ago, John Tapscott said:

25 years ago, I saw Lovano in a 2 hour concert (on tenor only)  with just Dennis Irwin on bass and Willie Jones III on drums. Joe was just smoking hot that night and honestly, it is one of the best and most memorable jazz concerts I've ever attended, I spoke to him after the concert and he was very friendly and helpful.  

 

would love to have seen that.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I enjoy Joe Lovano's playing. I've seen him in a wide variety of settings, from a trio to a big band, playing everything from bop to free and I've only ever left underwhelmed a couple of times. Granted those couple of times were the last two times I saw him, which means mrjazzman may have just witnessed a similar performance. The last two times I saw Joe was with Dave Douglas playing as "Sound Prints". I just thought Joe was just off his game. Maybe sedate is a better word?

I've also seen Joe with his nonet touring in support of his Blue Note recording "52nd Street Themes", with his "out" quartet that toured after "Quartets - Live at the Village Vanguard" and with the trio of himself, Dave Holland & Elvin Jones that played in support of "Trio Fascination". Every one of these shows was excellent stuff. Joe can play, that's for sure.

We'll have to disagree on this one.

Edited to add that I removed my troll comments...

[kh1958]

I've seen him a fair number of times live: with John Scofield, with Paul Motion and Bill Frisell at the Village Vanguard, with Tyshawn Sorey and with Dewey Redman. He is worth seeing. Not my favorite saxophonist but accomplished and capable of a worthy performance.

[JSngry]

He can play and he's alive. Gives him an advantage right there!

[kh1958]

15 minutes ago, JSngry said:

He can play and he's alive. Gives him an advantage right there!

Indeed.

[Rooster_Ties]

I have a lot of genuine respect for Joe Lovano’s playing — I really do — but over the years, my interest in him has faltered a great deal.  Let’s just say that eventually, I’ve traded off most of the CD’s I have by him (8-10 leader-dates, at least). And many he was just a sideman on too (well over a dozen, maybe not quite 20 even).

I don’t want to pile on to the severe negativity of the thread-starter’s OP — and I disagree with the idea that his playing is ‘boring’.

All that said, I’m really not a fan of Lovano’s tone and basic ‘sound’ — which I usually liken to sounding (metaphorically) like he’s ‘chewing’ on his mouthpiece.

I mostly don’t have any problem with what he’s playing, so much as I do with his sound.

But there’s easily a dozen other arguably great sax players whose sound I’m just not interested in — just like Lovano — and I figure that’s MY fault/problem, not his.

[mjzee]

3 hours ago, Dub Modal said:

Men get grumpier as they age

It's gonna happen to all of us at some point 

I am so angry that I can’t read this article!!!  😝

[Dub Modal]

14 minutes ago, mjzee said:

I am so angry that I can’t read this article!!!  😝

😄 I've been grumpy since the age of 5..I can't imagine it getting worse 

[JSngry]

This is the one Joe Lovano record that made a guy impact for me:

 

Eddie Baccus!!!!

https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/3276396

[Kevin Bresnahan]

30 minutes ago, JSngry said:

This is the one Joe Lovano record that made a guy impact for me:

 

Eddie Baccus!!!!

https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/3276396

I've seen that listed in the discographies but have never seen it in the wild.

[mjzee]

Ah, the strong opinion dilemma.

We feel a certain protectiveness towards jazz; we know how few people enjoy it.  We feel an extra protectiveness towards living musicians, because we know how hard it is to make a living, and a bad review or two can destroy someone's livelihood.  I've held my tongue when discussing certain living musicians, especially elder statesmen, simply out of respect and not trying to harsh the vibe.

On the other hand, one of the joys of listening to jazz is the analysis of the experience.  This is difficult for someone like me, who hasn't had any sort of musical training or study, but who listens to a lot of music.  I know what I like, even if it's hard to express.  There is a desire to describe the listening experience, to compare musicians, to compare performances.  I think this is universal: there are some musicians we like and some we don't.  What's fascinating, and speaks to the human condition, is that we all don't like and dislike the same musicians, and I think we're puzzled by that: Why doesn't that person like what I like?  Why aren't they hearing what I'm hearing?  There's a desire to express and compare experiences; if they're strong experiences, we express that description strongly.  That directly collides with the previous paragraph.

So, what to do?

I think a troll is someone who criticizes or tries to upset a particular person or group of people who post on a particular forum.  The OP wasn't criticizing anyone here, he was just expressing his opinion about Lovano (and Lage).  Therefore, I don't think he was trolling.  Further, his opinions were based on his personal investment in the process: buying tickets and spending time at the concert.

My opinion is closer to Rooster_Ties's.  What Lovano plays just doesn't interest me.  His tone is flat and unvigorous (which is strange considering he's a big guy, and should be able to blow harder, more distinctly), and his solos just seem to take up time.  I don't enjoy his playing; that's me.  But a lot of people disagree: he's put out many records in his almost 40 years as a leader, he continues to record so his records must sell, and his boosters included Michael Cuscuna (a big plus in my book).  I saw Lovano once with Pat Martino at the Blue Note, and his playing bored me; others must have felt differently.

So I think, in general, there's a real need to express opinions honestly and, yes, forcefully.  That's just life.  Perhaps this thread should be retitled to "Joe Lovano (trigger warning!)" to warn readers who might find a strong opinion to be unpleasant.

 

[JSngry]

It's in the Discogs zoo.

Carpe diem!

Eddie Baccus is the organist that led that totally cool LP for Mercury back in the day that was produced by RRK.

4 minutes ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

I've seen that listed in the discographies but have never seen it in the wild.

 

[Milestones]

Interesting that "Mr. Jazzman" has not responded to anything on the board.

If you are reading,Jazzman, have you...

• heard Lovano play Monk?
• heard 52nd Street Themes?
• heard Joe with Paul Motian on the "Broadway" albums?
• heard Joe in concert before?

Jut wondering if one concert (and not even present for the whole thing) is the cause of a rather vicious reaction.

 

[JSngry]

A vicious reaction is when a customer follows the band out to the parking lot to tell them to get their shit together or else get ready for an asswhipping because they work hard all week and didn't pay their money to hear some raggedyass bullshit.

That's a vicious reaction, although if we're being realistic, the asswhipping was only threatened, not actually delivered.

[Dub Modal]

I find it a little funny that the OP's thread on Lovano sparked discussion while the Joey A one did not.