BFT 252 discussion: a couple hours of musical enjoyment

[clifford_thornton]

Up now: https://thomkeith.net/blindfold-tests/2025-blindfold-tests/

I had fun compiling this. A couple tracks are from CDs and the rest are from vinyl -- hope the levels match up okay.

A few might be fairly easy guesses, but certainly some others bound to stump. And not all of it is free jazz!

and a hearty kudos to Thom Keith for hosting and generally operating this long Organissimo tradition.

Edited March 1 by clifford_thornton

[Dub Modal]

1 - Interesting build up. What's that quote at 2:30ish? Is a different arrangement of that tune developing? A little steam loss coming into the 4th minute but it picks back up going into the finish. Weird overall vibe but I'd guess the pianist as leader? No guesses beyond that. 

2 - Foreboding mood but then a sudden shift. That horn sounds like the leader. Is this JBL? Was not expecting this song to last so long when it started. 

3 - The horn made that intro. Glad they joined in there..but then kind of overstays the welcome. The bass ends up carrying this song. 

4 - These intros so far are some of the saddest music I've heard in a long time.., and I just got done watching that new Nosferatu movie. This bass could have elevated that soundtrack actually. Damn this is out there. 

5 - I like the sound contrast between the sax and the guitar. Their harmonizing is excellent. Great song. No idea who this is but will dart throw - Muriel Grossman? 

6 - Trumpet is aces. Band ends up showing out in a definitive groove. Would love someone to guess this one before the reveal. 

7 - Sounds like an older recording but has a timeless style. Another winner of a track.

8 -  Another older production as well it sounds like. No guesses 

9- this one wore me out 

10 - Burner of a song. Sax player is on fire. Live recording too. Awesome selection. 

11 - Has that mystic type of element that keeps things interesting. Lovely and surreal at the same time. Strong track. 

12 - Another interesting harmony between the horns here. Really good. Relentless and intense for sure. They are going at it. 

Hit publish before wrapping up with 13. Love this horn player. Band is excellent, strong song. Gets funky with that guitar. I dig. 

Thanks for the tunes 

Edited March 2 by Dub Modal

[T.D.]

Just time for brief scans right now, but liking this BFT a lot!

The brass passages and rhythmic pulse of #7 suggest Lester Bowie involvement, but that's my only vague thought so far. Hope to be back later.

[clifford_thornton]

Thanks for listening! No Bowie, JBL, or Muriel anywhere on this BFT but interesting guesses in any event!

And the pianist on #1 and reedist on #2 are indeed the leaders of those sessions.

[felser]

1 – this is a stunning version of “Caravan”.  Love the atmosphere and the percussion.  Must look into this further!  No guesses.

2 – Quite good once I got past the first two minutes.  Tenor solo is strong.  Bass playing is spectacular, and I assume it’s the bass player’s album.  William Parker?

3 -  Tenor player totally in my wheelhouse!  The bass player does go on but sounds good.  Third straight cut I am high on!  David Murray?  This could end up being a very expensive BFT for me if this stuff is available on CD!

4 – Alas, the streak ends here.  I couldn’t make it through this one (though I did spot check the duration), which does not feel like “jazz” to me, but rather some sort of modern European classical chamber music.  YMMV for other listeners, of course.

5 – Back on track.  Rhythm!  Melody!  Harmony!  Improvisation!  You know, jazz 😊!  Especially enjoying the drummer on this one, but the solos are strong, the guitar player has an attractive tone, it’s all good.  Don’t feel the need to own this like I do the first three cuts but look forward to the reveal.

6 – James Newton on flute?  It’s good, but not emotionally compelling.  I like the rhythm section behind the piano solo.  Feels like something Black Saint could have released in the 80’s or 90’s.

7 – Twin trumpets!  Though not really twin, they play very differently.   Everything seems to bog down partway through the piano solo.  To me, the cut overstays its welcome by several minutes, though the return to the theme at the end is quite welcome.  Overall, good cut.

8 -    A lot of strong bass playing on this BFT.   This is a strong cut, but did sort of fade into the background on me.

9 – Well, this one won’t fade into the background.    These sorts of cuts can go either way for me, but this one sort of grabs me.  I’m going to guess 60’s/70’s vintage, US Players on a French label (Such as BYG or America)? 

10 – All The Things You Are.  Sounds to be definitely vinyl-sourced.  Another strong cut.   Excellent tenor playing by what I’m sure will be a recognizable tenor for the hotshots on the board here who are beyond me.  Shades of Clifford Jordan to me.

11 -  Another vinyl-sourced track?  It’s interesting, but does seem to meander.  Again, guessing 60’s/70’s vintage.

12 – All the same thoughts as #11.  Man, these are some looonnnggg cuts!

13 – I’m all in for this one, almost back to the level of interest I had in the first three cuts.  Love the tenor player.  The cut does go on. But the players are all good.

Quite a fine BFT, really enjoyed it overall, and the only cut fully lost on me was #4.  Especially looking forward to the reveal on those first two tracks!  With tracks 3 and 13 in the next tier.

[clifford_thornton]

Fair point on the longer cuts. I tend to go for those in general -- a predilection, if you will -- but during the course of a BFT I suppose they can become a slog if you're not immediately grabbed.

#6 is a few decades older than the 1990s, though it does have a very advanced feel.

#2 is the reedist's album and WP is not on it. Surprised you did not dig #4 but YMMV indeed.

#9 was released on an American label and is very New York-centric, certainly of the era you surmise.

Glad you are enjoying some of it, anyway!

[clifford_thornton]

oh, and one of the horns on #7 is a trombone.

[Dub Modal]

1 hour ago, clifford_thornton said:

oh, and one of the horns on #7 is a trombone.

Ranelin? 

[clifford_thornton]

Nope! Not American.

[clifford_thornton]

Bueller...? Bueller...?

[T.D.]

Mostly impressions here, not going to guess much.

My handwriting is so &^%! bad that I'm going to build up a post by editing in stages...this should grow over the next few days.

1. Love this one. Pianist must be leader. Seems to be a classical/"minimalist" flavor in places so more likely Euro-based?

2. Didn't care for the long intro, too gestural/skittering, but it really picked up when the tenor and rhythm section kicked in. The outro was also a bit of a turnoff, but fortunately shorter than the intro. On balance a good track because the excellent tenor outweighed the intro. Probably US musicians but nobody comes to mind. Despite no WP (I peeked above) I wouldn't be surprised if Hamid Drake was the drummer, who was also a highlight. Would like to hear more of the album/group.

3. Like the tenor player (especially) and drummer, but overall drags a little. Sounds like the piece could be a take-off/version of some well-known tune that I can't place...weirdly Brubeck (who I hardly ever listen to) even comes to mind in places. 🥴 Would like to hear more of the group.

4. Seemed like a downer on first hearing, but enjoyed it more on a second listen. Very much like the main brass soloist, though with my crappy computer sound I'm not certain of the instrument. Some of the brass parts had a "composed" feel but there were also playful sections. Thinking a Euro ensemble here, Dutch wouldn't be a surprise. Another group I'd like to hear more of despite the tune not being a 100% hit.

Edited Friday at 05:08 PM by T.D.

[clifford_thornton]

All Americans on #4, and the names should be familiar once they're revealed! I really love the music and have enjoyed revisiting that album in preparation for the BFT.

Hamid is not the drummer on #2, but I can hear the comparison. Both drummers emerged right around the same time in the second half of the 70s.

#1 is, again, all-American, and yes, the pianist is the leader.

[T.D.]

[Can't edit previous post]

5. Didn't think it was my type of thing at first, but grew on me. Nothing to criticize. Interesting, alto played some stuff that sounds slightly Middle Eastern while the rhythm section had occasional traces of bossa nova. Guitar solo a high point. No idea of ID.

6. Like the piano intro. Good tune, sounds vaguely familiar but I don't own it and have no ID guess. Perhaps the flautist is leader.

7. Great brass section, enjoy the piece, curious about reveal.

8. Really like the piano here, big thumbs up! Kind of poly-stylistic a la Jaki Byard (though of course it's not him), which is totally in my wheelhouse. The tune sounds more than vaguely familiar, something I'd purchase, though the bass solo could have been a little shorter. Looking forward to reveal.

9. Like this, solidly in my NY (peeked above) loft free jazz wheelhouse. Don't think I've heard or own it, but would consider acquiring. Looking forward to reveal, suspect it might be some "lesser-known" NY musicians of the era.

10. Familiar tune which felser ID'd. Given the vinyl source, I surely don't own it, though the group sounds familiar and I'll no doubt kick myself on reveal. Another winner, I tend to prefer live recordings. Tenor solo maybe shows a bit of Johnny Griffin influence, though I agree with felser about CJ. Liked the piano solo.

[mjazzg]

Finally getting around to this. Feeling decidedly under the weather so observations are likely the ravings of a sick mind...not looked upthread

1. Like this a lot. Wondering if it's Gary Peacock and perhaps a Japanese pianist? It's not Kikuchi as his "singing" isn't in evidence. Lovely percussion work too. Super track whoever

2. Is this a shakuhachi I hear? Think it may be. So immediately I'm thinking Yamamoto but I'm not recognising the track yet. OK, tenor arrives, Yamamoto it isn't, are we hearing a doubler perhaps. Drummer's absolutely on it. Loft era I'm guessing. Losing interest as it progresses, or in fact doesn't really to my ears. Skipping onto next track. Just thought, William Parker plays Shakuhachi

3. For some reason this makes me think of Brackeen's Silkheart dates, it's the bass sound and the yearning style but it's not actually one of them. This maintains interest for me in a way the previous tune didn't but it still goes on a bit. Everything said in the first 5-6 minutes from there it's largely repetition. I may even own this, I may not

4. Mournful. Loving the economy of each of the players. Would like to hear more from this group. Sometimes I'm wondering if it's a trombone at all, such a beautiful brassy tone. Is it Lindberg?

5. Right up my alley from the off. Sprightly, space and a groove. No idea who's playing but I'd like to know. I even like the guitar solo which is not something I say very often. Struggling to place it chronologically too.

6. Always love a flute. James Newton? Can't think of him playing in a frontline like this though. Another good track but another one that says what it needs to say by about halfway and doesn't add a whole lot after that.

Off to do some weekend chores, back later hopefully 

 

Edited Saturday at 12:03 PM by mjazzg

[mjazzg]

And back,

7. First thoughts, this sounds European, Tusques maybe but I don't know a lot of his music (something I need to remedy) so that's possibly way off. It's very good, sort of 'Watermelon Man' mixed with 'Take Five' and put through the blender

8. More strong bass on this one. Late 60s? Sounds like the offspring of adventurous BN

9. And another that starts with arco bass or am I just imagining that preponderance. I'm sure I know these players. The drumming is phenomenal, Dennis  Charles? It feels just a bit too out there for NYAQ but it's there or thereabouts. Possibly best tune so far.

10. This is great, no further comment

11. Love this, so interesting from the off. I very particular vibes sound that almost sounds like a high pitched marimba in places, more wood than steel. Khan Jamal? Favourite track so far

12. Trombone again. The interplay between the horns is terrific and again the drummer is right on it. Surely Clifford Thornton has to appear on this BFT somewhere and foot that reason and that it sounds the correct era I'm going to suggest him. It sounds BYG-esque.

13. Nice ending, more space in this one

Thanks Clifford, lots to enjoy in this selection. I suspect, come reveal, to recognise a lot of names and maybe own an album or two. My tastes have moved away from the predominant style of the selection but 10/15 years ago I'd've hoovered this up wholesale.

One another impression, a lot of the tracks take a long time to say what they want to, most could have been shorter and not lost a lot of impact.

 

Edited Saturday at 12:59 PM by mjazzg

[clifford_thornton]

3 hours ago, mjazzg said:

Finally getting around to this. Feeling decidedly under the weather so observations are likely the ravings of a sick mind...not looked upthread

 

2. Is this a shakuhachi I hear? Think it may be. So immediately I'm thinking Yamamoto but I'm not recognising the track yet. OK, tenor arrives, Yamamoto it isn't, are we hearing a doubler perhaps. Drummer's absolutely on it. Loft era I'm guessing. Losing interest as it progresses, or in fact doesn't really to my ears. Skipping onto next track. Just thought, William Parker plays Shakuhachi

4. Mournful. Loving the economy of each of the players. Would like to hear more from this group. Sometimes I'm wondering if it's a trombone at all, such a beautiful brassy tone. Is it Lindberg?

 

 

Close -- another Japanese bamboo flute called the hochiku.

Lindberg is correct! Bingo.

I like the gradual emergence of tunes, always have, but I hear what you're saying in the context of BFTs. If you're not guessing in the first few minutes, you kinda just have to stick around whether you want to or not.

my namesake is nowhere on the BFT but good guess.

[tkeith]

With apologies (since I haven't put my ears to this test, yet).  I just posted in the sign-up thread.  We need a presenter for April.  Ordinarily when there's a gap, I would just step in (I haven't claimed a month, yet), but I can't do it in April.  Anybody?  Bueller?  Anyone?

[JSngry]

March has been (and will continue to be...) a timesuck of a month, so sorry for the lateness.

TRACK ONE - To use a cliche - brooding! Caravan is quoted, and appears to be the tune. Not broad enough (geometrically) to be Bley, but you could draw a line there if you wanted a line there. Likeable, certainly, but if I don't need a line, I would like a point, and this one seems to have some ideas about getting to one, but maybe not finally. I think I would like it more if I was in the room with it, just get it that one time and call it all good. And then move on. No need to here the playback.

TRACK TWO -  Bamboo flute is always (to use another cliche) "evocative". As well as is high register arco bass. And now we has the jazz. Just a tad ploddy, but it seems natural, so ok. It's real, so that's the thing. I do feel that I know this tenorist, it's like a cooljazz Sam Rivers, if you know what I mean. And it is a voice, nice architecture. Kick me for not getting it right now! I like it. I could almost guess Jarman, maybe Kalaparush, but not quite.

TRACK THREE - I think I have this record? Pretty much like it from jump. Fully focused on all counts, message understood in front, message delivered. Yeah!

TRACK FOUR - Arco bass is everywhere!!! George Lewis? One of those deliberate sensationalistic things where you play the spaces and make the bumps in between. It take a lot of patience to do this well, and this is done well.

TRACK FIVE - I like this one too! And it's another player I recognize, but can't recall the name. Definitely somebody who can play changes. I kinda feel like playing changes is not at all essential, but damn it, if you're going to play an attractive tune with attractive changes, be able to play the changes, dammit. Yeah, this is good, and the snare drum is tuned well.

TRACK SIX - Pretty specific zone. Post Dolphy/Out to Lunch, and as such, mission accomplished. Congratulation to all! Everybody came to play!

TRACK SEVEN -  OK, time/place seems apparent...Roswell Rudd? @ Van Gelder's? Late 60s/early 70s? Seems like I might have this one, but no bets being placed...Takes a little detour in terms of expected solo presentation. Seeps the groove and mood as it goes though. Curious to hear the whole record! Pianist's date, correct? Nice and expansive playing.

TRACK EIGHT - That's a good record! I don't have it and can't really hazard any guesses, but that's a good record! Enthusiasm drops a teence after the trumpet tho. But that's a damn good trumpet player!

TRACK NINE - TRUE BELIEVERS!!!!! You can't fake it with this stuff. And don't look dawn, ever never. I know I've heard this one, and might even have it somehow. It sure feels familiar, and in the best way.

TRACK TEN - Ok, yeah! Some nice, extended bebop composition, not halfasses lickurgitation. Is that KD? Early Tabackin? That headofsteam rolling downhill thing that both him and Eddie Daniels had at the time. Pianist comps better than solos, so I'd guess it's their tune?Don't think I know this record, but if the two horn players are any indication, I'm in!

TRACK ELEVEN - Gonna need to be in more of a mood for this type of Tristanoish-once-removed abstraction than I am now. That might change on any given day, though.

TRACK TWELVE - Hmm...not sure. Full of sound and fury, to be sure....

TRACK THIRTEEN - This one loses me almost from the beginning. Sorry. The tenor solo i pretty rudimentary in how it links ideas. Earlier Chico Freeman? The pianist is a lot higher IQ, but by then it's too far gone.I like the guitarist as well. So hey tenor player...why you?

Pretty outstanding compilation here over all. I didn't ID for shit (might have done better a decade or two earlier, maybe). And I had to break it into parts, my patience of longer improvised pieces is diminishing except at the highest level. But that's just me. Maybe I have a shorter attention span now. Well-earned I hope?

Anyway, thanks!!!

[mjazzg]

16 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Close -- another Japanese bamboo flute called the hochiku.

Lindberg is correct! Bingo.

I like the gradual emergence of tunes, always have, but I hear what you're saying in the context of BFTs. If you're not guessing in the first few minutes, you kinda just have to stick around whether you want to or not.

my namesake is nowhere on the BFT but good guess.

So if it's Lindberg then it's probably George Lewis too, as per Jsngry above

Edited yesterday at 07:28 AM by mjazzg

[mjazzg]

And Parker playing the Hochiku?

[clifford_thornton]

19 hours ago, JSngry said:

March has been (and will continue to be...) a timesuck of a month, so sorry for the lateness.

TRACK FOUR - Arco bass is everywhere!!! George Lewis? One of those deliberate sensationalistic things where you play the spaces and make the bumps in between. It take a lot of patience to do this well, and this is done well.

TRACK TEN - Ok, yeah! Some nice, extended bebop composition, not halfasses lickurgitation. Is that KD? Early Tabackin? That headofsteam rolling downhill thing that both him and Eddie Daniels had at the time. Pianist comps better than solos, so I'd guess it's their tune?Don't think I know this record, but if the two horn players are any indication, I'm in!

Pretty outstanding compilation here over all. I didn't ID for shit (might have done better a decade or two earlier, maybe). And I had to break it into parts, my patience of longer improvised pieces is diminishing except at the highest level. But that's just me. Maybe I have a shorter attention span now. Well-earned I hope?

Anyway, thanks!!!

Yes on Lewis/Lindberg and yes on KD and Tabackin! Good calls on both. Glad you dug it!

nope, no WP anywhere on this comp @mjazzg

[tkeith]

But for track 12, this test has left me about as happy as a BFT can when Felser was not involved.

track 01 - Love the sound of this piano.  Okay, Caravan.  I was hoping for solo piano, but about a minute in, I'm fine with that not being the case.  Love how this is unfolding.  Tasty bass, too.  It's not the Mal Waldron I want, but I'm really digging this.  It's a unique interpretation that pays respect to the song, and it's interesting.  Can't ask for much more than that.

track 02 - This is odd.  It's a unique tenor voice, and a conversation.  I like that.  But there's something about that tenor that's also losing me a bit.  They're kind of wandering.  It's honest, and they're communicating, but this almost feels like a rehearsal take.  Live, it'd be great, but as much as I'm enjoying the interaction, I'm not sure I would as much on repeated plays.  One thing I DO applaud is, for it's wandering, I'm not hearing the practice room... they ARE creating.  Bass is the standout to me.  Drummer has a fondness for Rashid Ali (and I can't fault him).  

track 03 - I got distracted and didn't realize track had changed.  Tenor came in and I said, "That sounds like Booker T.!"  I went to rewind what I thought was track 2, saw it was track 3 just as the bass hook to Hussen Kalle Mazeltov began.  Love this cut, love the album.  Transcribed this way back -- if only I could get someone to play it (looking at you, Tim!).  Great choice.  Man!  Cyrille is SO fantastic!

track 04 - Unsure.  Maybe George Lewis?  Dunno.  Interesting, but not sure it's going in the "A" stack.

track 05 - Unemployment stick NOT sounding like a snake charmer!  NICE!  Weird follow-up to the last tune, but it works.  Sound recording doesn't excite me (either that or that's the worst snare ever made), but this puts it all together.  I've reached a point that I almost can't listen to soprano these days, but this works on all levels.  There is a significant drop after the sax solo.  That IS the worst sounding snare I've ever heard.  Fortunately, the soprano comes back and saves it.  I recall a gig where a drummer was playing his "funk kit" and that's the sound the snare made.  Just, no.  Tim was on that gig.  Fortunately, no audience member were.

track 06 - Not sure what this is (Sam Rivers?), but I'm loving it.  I'm thinnking of a game Charlie Kohlhase introduced me to -- Fantasy Jazz Band.  I had the thought of Henry Threadgill and Shelly Manne when this started (Thanks, Charlie!).  Once it gets going, definitely getting a Smiley Winters vibe from those drums.  Trumpet doesn't try to do to much.  Man, THIS is what I want to hear when I go to see live music!  I've got no ID on this, but I'm definitely adding it to the stacks.

track 07 - Borrowing from Horace... or Steely Dan.  Kind of like it.  Reminds me of the Bob Moses record with Autumn Liebs.  I take that back -- this is MUCH heavier.  Pianist is in that Tyner vein, but when he slows it down, there's a chunk of Andrew Hill that is very pleasing. Bass and drums are complementing the piano perfectly.  Thoughtful, patient bass solo.  What's not to like about this?  (Hey Tim!  They stole the bass line from Moonlight!)

track 08 - Straight-forward-ish.  Stabby drums behind a tastefully aggressive trumpet.  Loving what the bass player is doing.  Pianist could soften the blows a bit, but it works for the most part.  Again with an Andrew Hill feel on the piano -- am I sensing a sub-theme?  Now moving towards McCoy, but I'm not offended.  This one works.  More nice bass work.

track 09 - Almost has the air of early Frank Lowe, that roiling, spinning tenor.  It's not Frank's sound, though.  Much going on here, all of it pleasing.  Now it DOES sound like Frank.  Maybe I should eat something.  

track 10 - Genre spanning, again.  Parts of this almost sound like a Jazztet date.  Trumpet has edge, but also has chops.  Tenor reminds me of a guy nobody has heard of who went to Yale (and showed up on one of my BFTs).  If I saw this, I'd be quite happy.  The proper respect is paid to tradition, but I don't feel like this is being rehashed.  It's not lights out, but it's admirable in its imperfections.  Doing his best J-Griff!  Damnit!  You're going to make me spend money!!!

track 11 - Angular and wispy.  I'm not in love, but I'm not offended.  My only complaint is this is going to be too short for what it feels like it's setting up.  If I can figure out who that tenor in the left channel is, s/he will wake up one day unable to find their sound, because I'm going to steal it.

track 12 - I have a lot of stuff adjacent to this in my collection, but this one is missing for me.  Hearing more noisy than creative, and my patience wanes quickly when that happens.  Tenor overdoes it a bit.  Trombone is there, though, right where they need to be.  The drums are giving him the right support.  I guess it's the tenor bugging more than anything.  Last track wasn't long enough, this one is dragging. Piano comes in and now we're back to noiseville.  Maybe my brain is just in relax mode, but now this is pissing me off.  Maybe that's the point.  I'll pass on this one (and wish perhaps I had).

track 13 - Nice choice for a set ender.  Pulse (lacking in the last cut), more in-the-tradition, but doing it right.  As it goes on, hearing more of the vocabulary, but less spontaneity.  Confident it's not someone I know, but the chops are clearly there.  Rhythmically, there's something South African about the sax player.  No new ground broken in the rhythm section, but they're doing what they're doing well. About the half-way point, if that's NOT McCoy, they owe some SERIOUS royalties.  

Thanks!  And apologies for dragging ass a week longer than I'd promised!

[clifford_thornton]

21 minutes ago, tkeith said:

But for track 12, this test has left me about as happy as a BFT can when Felser was not involved.

track 03 - I got distracted and didn't realize track had changed.  Tenor came in and I said, "That sounds like Booker T.!"  I went to rewind what I thought was track 2, saw it was track 3 just as the bass hook to Hussen Kalle Mazeltov began.  Love this cut, love the album.  Transcribed this way back -- if only I could get someone to play it (looking at you, Tim!).  Great choice.  Man!  Cyrille is SO fantastic!

 

Thanks!  And apologies for dragging ass a week longer than I'd promised!

Glad you enjoyed! And bingo on Booker T. with Cyrille.

[tkeith]

I was hearing KD on track 10, but really figured I must be losing it.  I'll be damned.

Also, no takers on April, yet.  Again, I *CANNOT* take April. 

[Dan Gould]

42 minutes ago, tkeith said:

 

Also, no takers on April, yet.  Again, I *CANNOT* take April. 

I had many left over from last year so I could put together one in very short order. But that should be a last resort.