Vanguard 1950's Jazz LPs - Update

[mikeweil]

Now that the second Mosaic box set of 1950's Vanguard manistream jazz sessions is available, I updated the list of 10" and 12" LPs of the series. It is an expansion of the list from the Mosiac website plus my researches in the Lord Discography and discogs. Titles with an * are in the first box; titles in the second are marked with + - that leaves a small group marked ~  not included in  the Mosaic sets, on which I will post some comments below.

May we hope for a third set? I have my doubts.

Additions and corrections are welcome.

10” LP
VRS-8001 Vic Dickenson Septet Vol.1 *
VRS-8002 Vic Dickenson Septet Vol.2 *
VRS-8003 Sir Charles Thompson Sextet *
VRS-8004 Mel Powell Septet +
VRS-8005 Brother John Sellers Sings Folk and Blues Songs
VRS-8006 Sir Charles Thompson Quartet  +
VRS-8007 Joe Newman And His Band *
VRS-8008 Ruby Braff / Buck Clayton – Buck Meets Ruby *
VRS-8009 Sir Charles Thompson And His Band *
VRS-8010 Urbie Green and his Band ~
VRS-8011 Jimmy Rushing’s All Stars – Goin’ To Chicago *
VRS-8012 Vic Dickenson Septet Vol.3 *
VRS-8013 Vic Dickenson Septet Vol.4 *
VRS-8014 Sam Most Sextet ~
VRS-8015 Mel Powell Bandstand ~
VRS-8016 Don Elliott - Doubles in Brass
VRS-8017 Nat Pierce Band ~
VRS-8018 Sir Charles Thompson Trio +
VRS-8019 Ruby Braff - Two-Part Inventions in Jazz Vol.1 +
VRS-8020 Ruby Braff - Two-Part Inventions in Jazz Vol.2 +

12” LP
VRS-8501 Mel Powell - Borderline +
VRS-8502 Mel Powell - Thigamagig +
VRS-8503 Jo Jones Special *
VRS-8504 Ruby Braff Sextet – Ruby Braff Special *
VRS-8505 Jimmy Rushing And His All Stars *
VRS-8506 Mel Powell - Out On A Limb +
VRS-8507 Ruby Braff - Two By Two: Music of Rodgers and Hart +
VRS-8508 Various Artists – A Night At Count Basie’s *
VRS-8509  Hans Koller - Hans Across the Sea ~
VRS-8510  Rolf Kühn - Streamline ~
VRS-8511  Bobby Henderon - Handful of Keys +
VRS-8512 Ronnell Bright - Bright Flight ~
VRS-8513 Jimmy Rushing – Listen To The Blues *
VRS-8514 Buck Clayton – Buckin’ The Blues *
VRS-8515 Ted Brown - Free Wheeling ~
VRS-8516 Ruby Braff & Ellis Larkins - Pocketful of Dreams (reissue of 8019 & 8020) +
VRS-8517 Buck Clayton & Mel Powell (reissue of 8004 & 8008)  */+
VRS-8518 Jimmy Rushing (reissue of 8011) *
VRS-8519 Nat Pierce - Easy Swing (reissue of 8017) ~
VRS-8520 Vic Dickenson Showcase Vol.1 (reissue of 8001 & 8002) *
VRS-8521 Vic Dickenson Showcase Vol.2 (reissue of 8012 & 8013) *
VRS-8522 Don Elliott & Sam Most - Doubles in Jazz (reissue of 8014 & 8016)
VRS-8523/24 From Spirituals to Swing ~
VRS-8525 - Jo Jones Plus Two +

[jazzbo]

Nice work!

[Dan Gould]

Thanks very much for this Mike.

[mikeweil]

So what about those not included in the two Mosaic boxes?

The easiest case is the legendary From Spirituals To Swing Concerts, issued on a double LP VRS-8523/24. There was an excellent comprehensive expanded edition on 3 CDs which can be found used at decent prices. I have this box and can recommend it, sound is good, documentation etc. is satisfying. No need for a Mosaic reissue, IMO.

https://www.discogs.com/release/1380607-Various-From-Spirituals-To-Swing-The-Legendary-1938-1939-Carnegie-Hall-Concerts-Produced-By-John-Ham

Edited February 28 by mikeweil

[Big Beat Steve]

I guess most of the ones ignored (for whatever reason ) by Mosaic would fit into a "Modernism at Vanguard" box set (Kühn, Elliott, Pierce, Bright, Most, Brown a.o.). But that would be quite a hodgepodge (regardless of who would reissue them that way), and therefore unlikely.
Personally, that doesn't bothers me unduly. I have almost all of them on vinyl (missing only the Ronnell Bright so far).

[jazzbo]

I have most of what I want from the missing as well. I need the Sam Most. . . I really like Most's work. Maybe one day.

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, mikeweil said:

So what about those not included in the two Mosaic boxes?

The easiest case is the legendary From Spirituals To Swing Concerts, issued on a double LP VRS-8523/24. There was an excellent comprehensive expanded edition on 3 CDs which can be found used at decent prices. I have this box and can recommend it, sound is good, documentation etc. is satisfying. No need for a Mosaic reissue, IMO.

https://www.discogs.com/release/1380607-Various-From-Spirituals-To-Swing-The-Legendary-1938-1939-Carnegie-Hall-Concerts-Produced-By-John-Ham

This.

[mikeweil]

The Urbie Green session was a 10 incher with four tracks - modern mainstream, good soloists, Braff in particular. 

Like the single session he recorded for Blue Note a bit earlier, this usually falls between the cracks, but it's good! I have a UK twofer on AVID, that takes advantage of European copyright regulations and collects all the stuff he recorded earlyin his career except those for RCA and its sublabel "X". Better than nothing. But the sound would be better if they had access to original sources.

https://www.discogs.com/master/3756852-Urbie-Green-Five-Classic-Albums-All-About-Urbie-Green-And-His-Big-Band-Blues-And-Other-Shades-Of-Gre/image/SW1hZ2U6MTIyMzQ2NDUz 

Edited February 28 by mikeweil

[Chuck Nessa]

12 hours ago, mikeweil said:

So what about those not included in the two Mosaic boxes?

The easiest case is the legendary From Spirituals To Swing Concerts, issued on a double LP VRS-8523/24. There was an excellent comprehensive expanded edition on 3 CDs which can be found used at decent prices. I have this box and can recommend it, sound is good, documentation etc. is satisfying. No need for a Mosaic reissue, IMO.

https://www.discogs.com/release/1380607-Various-From-Spirituals-To-Swing-The-Legendary-1938-1939-Carnegie-Hall-Concerts-Produced-By-John-Ham

Your post caused me to pull this set down for tomorrow. It's been too long.

I had the lp box back in the day.

[Big Beat Steve]

15 hours ago, mikeweil said:

The Urbie Green session was a 10 incher with four tracks - modern mainstream, good soloists, Braff in particular. 

Like the single session he recorded for Blue Note a bit earlier, this usually falls between the cracks, but it's good! I have a UK twofer on AVID, that takes advantage of European copyright regulations and collects all the stuff he recorded earlyin his career except those for RCA and its sublabel "X". Better than nothing. But the sound would be better if they had access to original sources.

https://www.discogs.com/master/3756852-Urbie-Green-Five-Classic-Albums-All-About-Urbie-Green-And-His-Big-Band-Blues-And-Other-Shades-Of-Gre/image/SW1hZ2U6MTIyMzQ2NDUz 

This Urbie Green 10-incher (VRS-8010/Amadeo AVRS 7003) has accompanied my collecting days ever since I found a copy at a fleamarket about 40 years (or more) ago. In the meantime I've upgraded twice at very affordable prices (to originals with somewhat better covers), sold the first and have the second bought now on sale in my fleamarket jazz LP box. So visibly that LP must have sold decently back in the day.
That Avid compilation might have been a option for those who do not already have most of the contents in other formats; I have his Vanguard LP also on CD now (bought for 1 EUR at a clearout sale 2 years ago - at that price nothing witll do any harm and anythimg can go into the car player as a last resort - and fidelity is not bad at all IMO):
https://www.discogs.com/de/release/15513971-Vic-Dickenson-Urbie-Green-Slidin-Swing

[mikeweil]

3 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

I have his Vanguard LP also on CD now (bought for 1 EUR at a clearout sale 2 years ago - at that price nothing witll do any harm and anythimg can go into the car player as a last resort - and fidelity is not bad at all IMO):
https://www.discogs.com/de/release/15513971-Vic-Dickenson-Urbie-Green-Slidin-Swing

Membran - IMO the worst of all German bootleggers .....

[Big Beat Steve]

Sure (though - like other PD labels - they do seem to remain within the European copyright cutoff dates too), yet they seemed to have had the graces of Zweitausendeins where this series was sold back in the day. And at a secondhand price of 1 EUR I really have no qualms. But rest assured - others will blast AVID (and the like) in the same manner.

Edited March 1 by Big Beat Steve

[mikeweil]

The reasons why Mosaic excluded the 10" LP Nat Pierce Bandstand session from the first box remain obscure to many of us - perhaps a limitation to 7 CDs? 

The personnel ist Pierce with Basie-Ites Green,Page, and Jones, a more Basie-ite rhythm section is hard to imagine, with modern West-Coast big band alumni - a combination that worked well, due the horn players admiration of the Basie band. But tto modern for the box set? 

it was reissued many times, but Pierce recorded for several labels, which makes him an ideal subject for European labels. There was this oop compilation:

This 12" LP reissue was on a French CD, since the Mel Powell session from another 10" LP is also missing in the Mosaic box, this one might be an option, but it omits the two vocal tracks from the 10" LP.

This was the original 10" LP issue:

The complete album was include in this UK AVID Jazz twofer. 

Edited Monday at 06:40 PM by mikeweil

[Big Beat Steve]

16 hours ago, mikeweil said:

The reasons why Mosaic excluded the 10" LP Nat Pierce Bandstand session from the first box remain obscure to many of us - perhaps a limitation to 7 CDs? The personnel ist Pierce with Basie-Ites Green,Page, and Jones, a more Basie-ite rhythm section is hard to imagine, with modern West-Coast big band alumni - a combination that worked well, due the horn players admiration of the Basie band. But tto modern for the box set? 

This 12" LP reissue was on a French CD, since the Mel Powell session from another 10" LP is also missing in the Mosaic box, this one might be an option, but it omits the two vocal tracks from the 10" LP.

 

The above Pierce/Powell compilation was the source of the ARS (American Record Society) release that I mentioned earlier in the discussion of the items that Mosaic saw fit to omit from the Vanguard sets. The contents are exactly the same.

It is indeed hard to imagine why the Nat Pierce session would not have fitted the bill of what AT ITS CORE was a 50s MAINSTREAM Swing set that stlyistically did look beyond Swing-era swing-style jazz (as the compilers at Mosaic must have been aware - unless they had exceedingly conservative tastes).

Edited Tuesday at 11:01 AM by Big Beat Steve

[mikeweil]

7 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

It is indeed hard to imagine why the Nat Pierce session would not have fitted the bill of what AT ITS CORE was a 50s MAINSTREAM Swing set that stlyistically did look beyond Swing-era swing-style jazz (as the compilers at Mosaic must have been aware - unless they had exceedingly conservative tastes).

My thoughts exactly. 

[JSngry]

It does seem odd.

As does the presence of Med Flory?

And Jack Nimitz?

Was this a California session?

[Big Beat Steve]

16 hours ago, JSngry said:

As does the presence of Med Flory?
And Jack Nimitz?
Was this a California session?

Bruyninckx gives New York as the recording location.

[JSngry]

Was Kenton in town?

[Big Beat Steve]

10 February 1955.

The Down Beat issues of 26 January and 9 February 1955 did not list any tour activities of the Stan Kenton band, neither in the "Band Routes" (tour data) section nor anywhere else.

Edited Wednesday at 02:39 PM by Big Beat Steve

[JSngry]

Somebody was in from the West Coast...

[Niko]

Flory probably hadn't moved to the West Coast yet in early 1955 (can't find a precise date for his move, some sources say 55, some 56), Nimitz was probably still with Woody Herman...

[JSngry]

And Kamuca?

[Niko]

Woody Herman... there's this overview of the Four Brothers Sax Sections by Alun Morgan and Joe Urso... here's the information on the end of 1954 and 1955:

JERRY COKER DICK HAFER BILL TRUJILLO JACK NIMITZ PART OF 1954

DAVE MADDEN DICK HAFER BILL PERKINS JACK NIMITZ PART OF 1954
RICHIE KAMUCA DICK HAFER BILL PERKINS JACK NIMITZ PART OF 1955

RICHIE KAMUCA DICK HAFER SANDY MOSSE JACK NIMITZ PART OF 1955

RICHIE KAMUCA DICK HAFER ART PIRIE JACK NIMITZ JUN 1955

RICHIE KAMUCA SPENCER SINATRA ART PIRIE JACK NIMITZ PART OF 1955

RICHIE KAMUCA BOB HARDAWAY ARNO MARSH JACK NIMITZ PART OF 1955

RICHIE KAMUCA TED NASH EDDIE MILLER CHUCK GENTRY NOV 1955

BOB NEWMAN BOB HARDAWAY ARNO MARSH JAY CAMERON PART OF 1955

JIMMIE COOKE BOB HARDAWAY DANNY PETERIS HAROLD WILEY PART OF 1955

now, unfortunately, this doesn't give a whole lot of information - but it seems plausible that Kamuca and Nimitz were with Herman in February 1955

btw, the liner notes of the Urbie Green album on Vanguard mention that Flory was at the time of writing a member of the Tommy Tucker band... 

which reminded me to look at the liner notes of the Pierce album... the concept is super simple: Combine a group of horn players associated with Woody Herman with Basie's rhythm section and have Nat Pierce connect it all... 

[Big Beat Steve]

Thanks for your diligent research, Niko.

So I checked the two Down Beat issues close to the 10 Feb. 1955 recording date of the Nat Pierce session for WODDY HERMAN now.
But nothing precise ... The 9 Feb. 1955 issue says Woody Herman had just made a private dance date at the Sheraton Hotel in Detroit. Nothing about tour data in the "Band routes" sections at all. The  23 Feb. issue states he was in the Ohio area in the second half of January. The 9 March issue reports that "Woody Herman broke several attendance marks on Saturday night at the Statler" but does not say which Saturday exactly . The 23 March issue says "Dick Jurgens succeeded Woody Herman at the Cafe Rouge of the Hotel Statler" (New York) (but none of these reports about New Yokr happenings state if the residence of the Herman band extended back into early February). Anyway, this is at least an indication that the orchestra was at the East Coast during that period.

Edited Thursday at 10:17 AM by Big Beat Steve