Charles Mingus, Kenny Dorham, Freddie Hubbard for RSD 2025

[felser]

15 hours ago, JSngry said:

I think there's a splice or two towards the end of the piano solo on #7?

That may well be what I heard also when I said there was a "jump" on #7.

[JSngry]

9 minutes ago, felser said:

That may well be what I heard also when I said there was a "jump" on #7.

A splice or two on an old tape like that wouldn't surprise me at all. But it's common courtesy to make note of it in the annotation.

But the disc itself is playing fine.

[david weiss]

23 minutes ago, JSngry said:

A splice or two on an old tape like that wouldn't surprise me at all. But it's common courtesy to make note of it in the annotation.

But the disc itself is playing fine.

I haven't heard the CD yet but on the original tape I have, the piano solo is about 1:08 in length on The Theme. 

[hbbfam]

Got the Kenny Dorham replacement from Amazon. High hopes because track 6 played find to its completion. But alas nto track 7. Not good. Back it goes.

[JSngry]

Nothing at all for #7? Not even some garbled jibbetyrjabbery effiness?

Not good...

[hbbfam]

18 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Nothing at all for #7? Not even some garbled jibbetyrjabbery effiness?

Not good...

Quite the contrary, plenty of garbled, staticy and fuzzy words from Kenny and musis.  Shame cause tracks 1-5 on both and 6 on the replacement sound great.

[JSngry]

Try this before sending it back - RIP it to your PC and then make a burn. See if the burn plays ok.

I've had this work more than a few times, even if there is NO reason why it should.

[Dub Modal]

Listened to the Hubbard yesterday and the Dorham today. Mingus tomorrow. All bandcamp downloads so none of the CD issues which suck to hear about. Really enjoying Cedar Walton on this Dorham date. 

To those that have the CDs/LPs, how are the interviews in the booklets? 

[hbbfam]

11 hours ago, JSngry said:

Try this before sending it back - RIP it to your PC and then make a burn. See if the burn plays ok.

I've had this work more than a few times, even if there is NO reason why it should.

Ripped it with both EAC and ExpressCDrip. It did not work with either.  In fact only the first minute of track 1 actually played on my computer.  And EAC noted "suspicious".

[JSngry]

That's some weird shit ..

[jazzbo]

Just played the last two tracks on my copy of the Dorham and they play perfectly.

Anyone have any new thoughts on which Charles is the drummer?

[JSngry]

Whoever it is wrapping up the set hanks Kenny, Sonny, and then after a pause, "Hoss:, which could be "Huss".

Like many here, I have the bootleg that's circulated. Let me go back and play it again to see what they say there.

[felser]

58 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Whoever it is wrapping up the set hanks Kenny, Sonny, and then after a pause, "Hoss:, which could be "Huss".

Like many here, I have the bootleg that's circulated. Let me go back and play it again to see what they say there.

Discogs lists Huss Charles as being Denis's brother, but his credits all show him on percussion rather than drums.  From the drumming, I have no problem believing it's Denis, but what you're sharing does seem to point to Huss, unless the announcer made an error.

 

[JSngry]

On my copy of the bootleg, nobody announced the drummer.

The gate provided was April 07, 1967.

Also included were three vocal tacks featuring Joe Lee Wilson. Each has a different audio quality.

The copy of the bootleg I have has numerous indications of being a needle drop!!!

The Resonance release is an infinite upgrade, even if it does not have the vocal track, which I also lik

I really like Sonny Red here, like him a lot. Definitely an evolving player!

[Dub Modal]

Listening at lunch today and noted how Red was killing it. Definitely an engaging listen

[JSngry]

Red is in a zone that's not unlike Mobley was around the same time, working a line instead of doing the bebop change running thing.

I take it that his personal problems were always a distraction, but when he came into the clearing, it was was always worth checking out!

[Niko]

2 hours ago, felser said:

Discogs lists Huss Charles as being Denis's brother, but his credits all show him on percussion rather than drums.  From the drumming, I have no problem believing it's Denis, but what you're sharing does seem to point to Huss, unless the announcer made an error.

 

I shared this quote from Denis a few weeks back about how Denis learned playing the drums on Huss's set in the early 50s... 

[JSngry]

4 hours ago, JSngry said:

Whoever it is wrapping up the set hanks Kenny, Sonny, and then after a pause, "Hoss:, which could be "Huss".

A more careful listening says "Paul",

Now, splices on The Theme,,,on my regular player I hear one if Red's last chorus, and one on Walton's last one as well. But in my PC players, there is just dead air in those spots, but the timer keeps moving and the bar lines add up regular,

So I don't know wtf is actually happening with this CD. I'll live with it, but jeez....

[david weiss]

5 hours ago, JSngry said:

Whoever it is wrapping up the set hanks Kenny, Sonny, and then after a pause, "Hoss:, which could be "Huss".

Like many here, I have the bootleg that's circulated. Let me go back and play it again to see what they say there.

I thought this as well at first but I think he is saying Paul.

I can only say it so many times but I have a copy of the tape and there is an announcement by the DJ Ed Williams and he clearly says Huss Charles. To me, that is the end of the conversation..... Where do you think these discographers got the name from (even if mispronounced or misinterpreted) in the first place?

Edited 7 minutes ago by david weiss

[JSngry]

Oh, I believe you. I'm just bummed that the bootleg I got doesn't have that. But it does have artifacts of a needle drop. Any idea where THAT came from?

And the three Joe Lee Wilson cuts...each has distinctly different audio qualities. So what roads did this stuff go through? It seems like more than usual!

[david weiss]

16 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Oh, I believe you. I'm just bummed that the bootleg I got doesn't have that. But it does have artifacts of a needle drop. Any idea where THAT came from?

And the three Joe Lee Wilson cuts...each has distinctly different audio qualities. So what roads did this stuff go through? It seems like more than usual!

I think I'm still worried about crossing lines with my former employers/collaborators but I'm working on that.....

It's public knowledge by now that these tapes came from a guy names Bernard Drayton.

Bernie was in advertising in the '60s and would hire the guys to write jingles (like Herbie Hancock) and play on the sessions.

At some point, he put on a jazz series in a club in the Bronx and recorded them.

As far as I know, the master tapes have always been in his possession. I know he has shopped them from time to time over the years (Belden played them for me in 1997. He was approached about these when he was A & R at Blue Note). Some of the tapes have certainly made the rounds (or as discussed, parts of them) but I think the masters have been with the original owner and theses releases were mastered from the original master tapes. 

I thought the sound quality in general was decent and there was some stereo separation. 

I have the three Joe Lee Wilson tracks of course and they sound fine. I really enjoy KD's solos here, especially on Four.

As I mentioned earlier, I find Sonny Redd's playing here to be revelatory. I couldn't believe it was him when first hear this (at this point, probably 30 years ago)

I can't imagine why there would be anything that sounds like needle drops. 

I don't know if there are edits on this release but I went back to the tape I have and listened again and I hear nothing that sounds like a spice in there. 

The overall time of The Theme on the recording I have is 8:21

I have no idea how Denis Charles got in the picture here past being Huss' brother. The announcement I have (and it's at the beginning of the concert) clearly says Huss Charles but apparently, it's not on this release. I can't be the only owner of this tape that has an announcement that says Huss Charles on drums so I don't know what to say about that.

 

 

[Dan Gould]

@david weiss

Are you aware of any other tapes that this gentleman had? Did he finally find a buyer with Zev or did his heirs sell this one?

 

[JSngry]

My bootleg sounds like 10th generation, so God only knows...

The skips...apparently there are issues with this product. I found the gaps on my PC that played as splices on my regular player...I'll live with it. Maybe download that one it from Bandcamp and rebuild the CD.

It's worth it though. The music is excellent, and Huss Charles definitely had his Philly Joe chops together!

Did Hank play any of these shows?