BFT 250 Discussion - Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends

[mikeweil]

Okay, let me see how far i get. I do not listen to much jazz these days, and please excuse if I am too critical with details.

1.  Dahoud - would have liked the intro better with the second note before the beat. Hate the bass direct sound. Could it be there are transcriptions of original solos. This band would sound much better when recorded in a natural ambience - production makes it hard for me to listen through it. That insistent bass makes it a bit hectic. I wouldn't buy this.

2. A Charlie Parker tune - strange to awful piano sound, but definitely intended. A bit fast for my taste. Like the soloists much better than on the first track, some solid bebop played here. Sounds less like studio routine, but like fun and engaged playing. Oh, a live recording. Was hoping for a piano solo, and there it is. Is that Terry Adams? Like the drummer, and the horns, too. Okay, that's something I would buy.

3. This slower tune comes as a relief , to me at least. Liked it from the beginning. Some Ellington tune? Another bass direct sound, but warmer - that's more like it. Cello? No, guitar, sounding like a pizzicato cello in the first bar. That's a nice performance. Would have to hear more before I buy it. 

4. I know that tune, but listening to less jazz affect my memory of tunes. Strange sound, obtrusive kickdrum. Could be some swing veterans. They know what they're doing. Good soloistst having fun. Why is the piano so low in the mix? Nice, but too much like JATP for me to buy it. 

5. Symphony Sid, or what it's called. The alto player is good and enjoys himself, but I don't like the tempo, and, you guess, the bass sound. So I wouldn't buy it.

6. Another tune who's name I don't remember. Too fast for the piano player, he's on the border of what he can execute properly. Why are all these tracks in the fast tempo range except # 3? Most jazz guys seem to have high testosterone levels. Another no buy.

7. Django by John Lewis, but that's not him. Not his touch or voicings. That's ome very blues drenched player, like Les McCann, someone who transforms everything he plays into a blues type feeling. But there's a nice change of mood at 2:20. Would like to know who it is before I decide on buying it or not.

8. This direct bass sound might be one of the reasons whiy I don't like many newer recordings. Or is it the sound engineers making it too easy for themselves? Interesting pianist. Nice chops and a variety of stylistics. That's the same Parker tune as # 2. I have heard that alto player, but cannot identify him. Nice attempt at combining his bop roots with some whaling, without screaming, he has control. But I'd rather not buy this, I think.

9. Dahoud, once more. Doesn't enchant me as much as Clifford's version.  These modern guys are well schooled, but I want more feeling. So I wouldn't buy this.

10. What a contrast. Something like Night Train. A bit rough, but I like this. But would I buy it? Dunno, need to hear more.

Okay, I have to go to bed, got a gig coming up tomorrow night, with this guy (for speakers of German only, I guess): https://www.klemens-althapp.de

More later, I won't look at the others' comments.

[Dan Gould]

Thanks for your comments so far, @mikeweil

[mjzee]

I've started participating in a number of these BFTs and haven't completed them, because they take so much time, especially to do them correctly: give each tune a full hearing, see how the arrangements and the soloists move me, identify the tunes, craft my replies... An 80-minute BFT could easily take 3 hours.  But I wanted to plow through this one, so I listened to the heads, skipped around the tunes themselves...a Cliff Notes version, if you will.

The obvious feature is the doubling up on tunes: Daahoud is #1 and #9, Billie's Bounce is #2 and #8, whatever that tune is is #3 and #10, Broadway is #4 and #11, "Lester Leaps In" is #5 and #12, whatever that tune is is #6 and #14, and Django is #7 and #13.  Cute.  Some random impressions:

#1: I liked the enthusiasm and the trumpeter, and noted the elaborate arrangements precisely executed.

Given the iffy sound quality, I'm guessing #2 and #4 are from the West End Cafe.

#5: Odd that there's no drummer.

#6: Ahmad Jamal?

Overall, these are musical styles I often listen to at home.  Well done.

[Dan Gould]

9 hours ago, mjzee said:

I've started participating in a number of these BFTs and haven't completed them, because they take so much time, especially to do them correctly: give each tune a full hearing, see how the arrangements and the soloists move me, identify the tunes, craft my replies... An 80-minute BFT could easily take 3 hours.  But I wanted to plow through this one, so I listened to the heads, skipped around the tunes themselves...a Cliff Notes version, if you will.

The obvious feature is the doubling up on tunes: Daahoud is #1 and #9, Billie's Bounce is #2 and #8, whatever that tune is is #3 and #10, Broadway is #4 and #11, "Lester Leaps In" is #5 and #12, whatever that tune is is #6 and #14, and Django is #7 and #13.  Cute.  Some random impressions:

#1: I liked the enthusiasm and the trumpeter, and noted the elaborate arrangements precisely executed.

Given the iffy sound quality, I'm guessing #2 and #4 are from the West End Cafe.

You are correct.

#5: Odd that there's no drummer.

It's matching tune is also missing a usual instrument in the rhythm section.

#6: Ahmad Jamal?

Overall, these are musical styles I often listen to at home.  Well done.

You put a lot more attention to these then I do!

Thanks for your comments, a couple of specific reactions above.

[Dan Gould]

Let's get into some hints as we await a couple of regular participants (and still holding out for @Big Al.

 

Daahoud tracks:  Both recorded in the 1980s by labels in California not named Concord. One of the trumpeters heard on one of the tracks performed quite a bit with Basie toward the end of his performing days.

Tracks 5 (Id'd as Lester Leaps In) features a European and two American ex-pats.

Track 14 was for the Brits.

Track 10 includes someone best known for composing a standard from the 40s that has been covered by vocalists ever since.

 

Some IDs should certainly be forthcoming now, if anyone cares.

 

[Dub Modal]

For track 1 if I had to hazard a guess it would be Mingus Big band or Dynasty. There's a slim to none chance that's right; regardless it's an enjoyable track. The group effort is impressive and the woodwinds sound incredible. Love it. 

2 swings like hell. Raucous tune. 

Things to like about 3 but it ended up losing me. 

4 swings back in nicely. Drum and bass driving hard. Another great track.  

Love 5 too. Sax player is so good. Bass solo is impressive. 6 follows it up in good fashion but then 7 lost me. Probably a legend. 

8 sounds like a classic. Is it McLean? 

9 my out of left field guess is Blue Mitchell? 

10 is a hard driving blues number. Great ambiance to this recording. 

11 is a familiar tune. Played very well. That crisp swing style. 

12 is another classic played very well. What a groove! 

13 is yet another good one. Some really focused hard driving drumming on this BFT. 

14 & 15 are just fantastic as well. The outro was someone I think I've heard before it no names are coming to me. 

 

 

[Dan Gould]

9 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

For track 1 if I had to hazard a guess it would be Mingus Big band or Dynasty. There's a slim to none chance that's right; regardless it's an enjoyable track. The group effort is impressive and the woodwinds sound incredible. Love it. 

2 swings like hell. Raucous tune. 

Things to like about 3 but it ended up losing me. 

4 swings back in nicely. Drum and bass driving hard. Another great track.  

Love 5 too. Sax player is so good. Bass solo is impressive. 6 follows it up in good fashion but then 7 lost me. Probably a legend. 

8 sounds like a classic. Is it McLean? 

9 my out of left field guess is Blue Mitchell? 

10 is a hard driving blues number. Great ambiance to this recording. 

11 is a familiar tune. Played very well. That crisp swing style. 

12 is another classic played very well. What a groove! 

13 is yet another good one. Some really focused hard driving drumming on this BFT. 

14 & 15 are just fantastic as well. The outro was someone I think I've heard before it no names are coming to me. 

 

 

Unfortunately none of your guesses are correct but thanks very much for your comments, I am glad such a high percentage of tunes were "hits" for you.

[Joe]

On 1/25/2025 at 9:39 AM, Dan Gould said:

Let's get into some hints as we await a couple of regular participants (and still holding out for @Big Al.

 

Daahoud tracks:  Both recorded in the 1980s by labels in California not named Concord. One of the trumpeters heard on one of the tracks performed quite a bit with Basie toward the end of his performing days.

Tracks 5 (Id'd as Lester Leaps In) features a European and two American ex-pats.

Track 14 was for the Brits.

Track 10 includes someone best known for composing a standard from the 40s that has been covered by vocalists ever since.

 

Some IDs should certainly be forthcoming now, if anyone cares.

 

Is track 10 Ram Ramirez of "Lover Man" fame?

[Dan Gould]

27 minutes ago, Joe said:

Is track 10 Ram Ramirez of "Lover Man" fame?

Ding. Ding.

 

[Joe]

57 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Ding. Ding.

 

Ah ha! Well, I feel like I need to listen to this track again.

Also, those clues about "Daahoud" make me wonder if Bobby Shew is involved in one of those recordings (the first?).

[Dan Gould]

12 minutes ago, Joe said:

Ah ha! Well, I feel like I need to listen to this track again.

Also, those clues about "Daahoud" make me wonder if Bobby Shew is involved in one of those recordings (the first?).

He is not.

[tkeith]

Well, more hits than misses for me this go 'round, Dan, which is not always the case with us.    Apologies for taking most of the month to get to this -- been a busy month.  Intestinal distress has confined me to home, today, and I figured I may as well prioritize this. 

 

 

track 01 - Dahoud, but by whom.  Brassy trumpet.  Soprano-led sax section (never particularly cared for that sound).  Hi level of musicianship, not getting the gut feel.  Not sure I know the bari, but I appreciate it. Alto solo is nice, as well.  

track 02 - Moose The Mooch.  At first was thinking it was a later Jug album I have.  That piano is, in a word, awful.  First tenor is a fun ride.  Is this your guy Percy France?  Got that rugged tenor sound, aggressive and a bit honky tonk.  Wait, second guy sounds MORE like him.  Second guy is definitely my preference.  I mean, could be the recording or the piano itself, but I'm not digging this guy at all.  Drummer seems to be pushing awfully hard, too.  Enjoying the tenor battle.  The brasher (first guy) -- could that be Arnett Cobb?  Both tenors have facility and vocabulary.  I'm sure this was fun to witness -- pianist be damned.

track 03 - Recognize the tune, but no title coming.  Nice adjustment from the last tune.  Not just the feel, but here's a piano player embracing sensitivity.  Very tasteful.  I feel like I've heard this before, but my brain is non-functional today.

track 04 - Broadway.  Dexter kind of ruined this tune for me.  There's him and then everybody else a few storeys below.  Is that a deep-sounding alto, a shallow tenor, or a C-melody?  Dude was pushing for it, but came up a bit short for me.  More here with the trumpet.  Sounds like guys pushing themselves to their absolute limits (which I appreciate), but they're a tick off in terms of execution.  Getting a Buddy Tate vibe here, making it all okay.  Doesn't seem quite as bold as Buddy, but whomever it is, it's hitting squarely.  Gotta be Buddy -- I feel like I'm getting swing-bullied, and he's the only guy who consistently does that for me.  Tone doesn't seem to be quite there, though (but it's live, so who knows).  This pianist is executing perfectly what the guy on track 2 didn't.  

track 05 - Lester Leaps In, with a whole lot of control.  But, that's just fine.  Getting an almost Marsh vibe, here.  Controlled and tasteful.  No shortage of swing, either.  Took 'til the piano solo for me to realize there was no drummer.  Okay, I clearly should get these guys, as these guys are fully for real.  Fighting some sick, so using that as my excuse.  This is damned near perfect.  Friggin' flawless tenor work.  Could this be later Warne?

track 06 - Another immediate recognition of tune, but damned if I can give you a title.  These guys seem to be fighting the tempo a bit (not the piano, but the drums, for sure).  No idea who the pianist is, but this is precisely the style that I don't care for.  Trouble with this tempo is, it quickly shows the flaws in the feel.  This one is a hard pass for me.  Drums get tighter after the bass solo, but I'm still not warming to it.  Barry Harris Trio live in SF is one of my favorite records.  This is not that.  I wish it were.

track 07 -  Django.  Doesn't strike as being John Lewis, but the feel is all there.  This one hits precisely where the last one missed.  Seems like I should definitely know this group.  This is killin'.  

track 08 - More Moose.  Clifford Jordan told a story about meeting him when I saw him in the early 80s.  "Barry Harris came up and said, 'Hey Cliff, Moose the Mooch is in the house,' I said, 'Say what?'  I met him.  He's a real guy."  Makes me smile every time.  Pianist with serious facility, if a bit more modern stylistically.  Don't recognize that alto tone, but there's something very familiar about the rhythmic phrasing.  Almost a tad clunky at points (think Arthur Blythe), but it's all there.  Recording sound cries Concord to me.  Maybe Mraz?

track 09 - More Dahoud.  Head was tight.  Sax solo left my mind wandering.  Facility is here, but I'm not driven to the point of caring.  Trumpet solo hits a bit better, but suffers from the same thing.  Not a thing wrong, just misses my gut.

track 10 - That's some seriously bad sound.  Bass reminds of Milt Hinton.  Pianist reminds me I have to get my piano tuned.  Sounds like an upright.  Drums hold this all together quite well.  At first, I didn't care for the drumming, but in the end, that's the part that resonated most.

track 11 - More Broadway.  Snappy drums, good recording.  This works on every level.  Weird how similar tracks can hit so differently.  This has the snap of Miles' rhythm section with Red Garland and Philly Joe.  Okay, now on the coda, that certainly sounds like Gene Harris.  Mayhaps this is The Three Sounds?  Whatever it is, it hits squarely on all counts.

track 12 - More Lester Leaping.  Bad recording sound. Vocabulary and facility are there.  Not great sound, but would be pretty good boot sound from 70s/80s.  Is this another Percy France thing?  (and aren't you glad my brain cramping stopping short of forgetting his last name in the moment?)  One thing I certainly appreciate about this -- not an ounce of bullshit.

track 13 - More Django.  Don't care for the tempo nor the arrangement.  Okay, there's Golson, so this must be the Jazztet.  Much as I love Benny, he sometimes got a little too arrangement happy.  But my GAWD that man could play the saxophone.  Did Art have the most beautiful trumpet sound, ever?  Every time I hear him on trumpet, I feel a sense of loss for his near total transition to the flugelhorn for so many years.

track 14 - Never remember the name of this (either time, here).  I always here Straighten Up And Fly Right, but I know that's not it.  This is not somebody I'm familiar with.  Again, has that Concord air about it.  Rightly or wrongly, gives the impression that it's derivative.  That's not a bad thing, just not an area where my ears tend to head.  Not a fan of the drummer.  Okay, I definitely have this by Scott Hamilton somewhere in the collection (YOUR fault, DAN!)  Punch tenor, but definitely not somebody I know.

track 15 - Nice ending.  

Now to see  how awful I did.

For the love of... did I REALLY just mid-ID Billie's Bounce as Moose The Mooch TWICE!?!?!

Also:

"Tommy Flanagan and Kenny Burrell are correct! I thought this composition was pretty well known, a little surprised you didn't name it."

Guess that explains why I loved that cut. 

[Dan Gould]

53 minutes ago, tkeith said:

Well, more hits than misses for me this go 'round, Dan, which is not always the case with us.    Apologies for taking most of the month to get to this -- been a busy month.  Intestinal distress has confined me to home, today, and I figured I may as well prioritize this. 

track 02 - Moose The Mooch.  At first was thinking it was a later Jug album I have.  That piano is, in a word, awful.  First tenor is a fun ride.  Is this your guy Percy France?  Got that rugged tenor sound, aggressive and a bit honky tonk.  Wait, second guy sounds MORE like him.  Second guy is definitely my preference.  I mean, could be the recording or the piano itself, but I'm not digging this guy at all.  Drummer seems to be pushing awfully hard, too.  Enjoying the tenor battle.  The brasher (first guy) -- could that be Arnett Cobb?  Both tenors have facility and vocabulary.  I'm sure this was fun to witness -- pianist be damned.

I went ahead and listened again and yes tenor two is Percy. Other one is not Cobb. The pianist is the leader and justifiably celebrated and mostly forgotten now.

53 minutes ago, tkeith said:

 

track 04 - Broadway.  Dexter kind of ruined this tune for me.  There's him and then everybody else a few storeys below.  Is that a deep-sounding alto, a shallow tenor, or a C-melody?  Dude was pushing for it, but came up a bit short for me.  More here with the trumpet.  Sounds like guys pushing themselves to their absolute limits (which I appreciate), but they're a tick off in terms of execution.  Getting a Buddy Tate vibe here, making it all okay.  Doesn't seem quite as bold as Buddy, but whomever it is, it's hitting squarely.  Gotta be Buddy -- I feel like I'm getting swing-bullied, and he's the only guy who consistently does that for me.  Tone doesn't seem to be quite there, though (but it's live, so who knows).  This pianist is executing perfectly what the guy on track 2 didn't.  

Yes it is Buddy and Sangrey got the group (Countsmen) and the alto. Trumpet is not ID'd.

53 minutes ago, tkeith said:

track 05 - Lester Leaps In, with a whole lot of control.  But, that's just fine.  Getting an almost Marsh vibe, here.  Controlled and tasteful.  No shortage of swing, either.  Took 'til the piano solo for me to realize there was no drummer.  Okay, I clearly should get these guys, as these guys are fully for real.  Fighting some sick, so using that as my excuse.  This is damned near perfect.  Friggin' flawless tenor work.  Could this be later Warne?

Not Warne. The saxophonist would be the referenced European in the hints I posted.

53 minutes ago, tkeith said:

 

track 07 -  Django.  Doesn't strike as being John Lewis, but the feel is all there.  This one hits precisely where the last one missed.  Seems like I should definitely know this group.  This is killin'.  

With the churchy thing I thought you'd guess Gene Harris.

53 minutes ago, tkeith said:

track 08 - More Moose.  Clifford Jordan told a story about meeting him when I saw him in the early 80s.  "Barry Harris came up and said, 'Hey Cliff, Moose the Mooch is in the house,' I said, 'Say what?'  I met him.  He's a real guy."  Makes me smile every time.  Pianist with serious facility, if a bit more modern stylistically.  Don't recognize that alto tone, but there's something very familiar about the rhythmic phrasing.  Almost a tad clunky at points (think Arthur Blythe), but it's all there.  Recording sound cries Concord to me.  Maybe Mraz?

There are no Concord recordings in this compilation.

53 minutes ago, tkeith said:

track 09 - More Dahoud.  Head was tight.  Sax solo left my mind wandering.  Facility is here, but I'm not driven to the point of caring.  Trumpet solo hits a bit better, but suffers from the same thing.  Not a thing wrong, just misses my gut.

track 10 - That's some seriously bad sound.  Bass reminds of Milt Hinton.  Pianist reminds me I have to get my piano tuned.  Sounds like an upright.  Drums hold this all together quite well.  At first, I didn't care for the drumming, but in the end, that's the part that resonated most.

The pianist was named by Joe off of my hint, and I would say that the drummer is the best known member of the group.

53 minutes ago, tkeith said:

track 11 - More Broadway.  Snappy drums, good recording.  This works on every level.  Weird how similar tracks can hit so differently.  This has the snap of Miles' rhythm section with Red Garland and Philly Joe.  Okay, now on the coda, that certainly sounds like Gene Harris.  Mayhaps this is The Three Sounds?  Whatever it is, it hits squarely on all counts.

Yes and Sangrey got this first.

53 minutes ago, tkeith said:

track 12 - More Lester Leaping.  Bad recording sound. Vocabulary and facility are there.  Not great sound, but would be pretty good boot sound from 70s/80s.  Is this another Percy France thing?  (and aren't you glad my brain cramping stopping short of forgetting his last name in the moment?)  One thing I certainly appreciate about this -- not an ounce of bullshit.

Yes, Percy "No Bullshit" France.

53 minutes ago, tkeith said:

 

track 14 - Never remember the name of this (either time, here).  I always here Straighten Up And Fly Right, but I know that's not it.  This is not somebody I'm familiar with.  Again, has that Concord air about it.  Rightly or wrongly, gives the impression that it's derivative.  That's not a bad thing, just not an area where my ears tend to head.  Not a fan of the drummer.  Okay, I definitely have this by Scott Hamilton somewhere in the collection (YOUR fault, DAN!)  Punch tenor, but definitely not somebody I know.

 

I am not aware of anytime Scott recorded 9:20 Special.

Thanks for making it back to this before the month ended.