Charles Mingus with Eric Dolphy

[Luciano]

Greetings to all the jazz enthusiasts on this site.
 I would like some information about Charles Mingus's 1964 European Toue with his quintet/sextet including Erico Dolphy.
 I start by asking for enlightenment about the following editions:
 The Salle Wagram Concert (Complete Edition) Jazz Collectors - JC 428
 The Great Concert Of Eric Dolphy AMERICA RECORDS 30 AM 003/004/005
 Revenge! The Legendary Paris Concerts REVENGE! RECORDS 3200
 That's it: how many tracks have been released? and in the Published Discs which tracks are the same.
 In summary, I would like to know which tracks are to be considered and in which edition they are to be found
 I hope I have made myself clear

I thank in advance those who would like to dedicate some time to me

Luciano

[Chuck Nessa]

You should be able to compare different issues at DISCOGS

[mjazzg]

https://www.discogs.com/master/1133654-Charles-Mingus-Revenge-The-Legendary-Paris-Concerts

https://www.discogs.com/master/239126-Charles-Mingus-The-Great-Concert-Of-Charles-Mingus

https://www.discogs.com/release/15887968-The-Charles-Mingus-Quintet-Charles-Mingus-Sextet-Eric-Dolphy-The-Salle-Wagram-Concert-Complete-Editisrsltid=AfmBOorTHJUUqrKcsHWEiZGB0-t_V_XVRC4fzggas1Oclvzkwr2BFtMt

These links might help, they give tracklists for each release

 

Edited November 13 by mjazzg

[Luciano]

19 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

Thanks Chuck,

I know discogs and I trust it enough only this time I have files, maybe the same but I'm not really sure. Anyway my question must have been unclear. It's difficult to ask it even in Italian, let alone with my poor English. Anyway, thanks again.

PS, maybe I have already asked you anyway: if I remember correctly, you used to write on coda and were somehow in contact with my friend Roberto Terlizzi who, I believe, collaborated in the mid 70s with coda
 

 

19 hours ago, mjazzg said:

Many Thanks

 

 

[l p]

this is a good reference

https://mingus.onttonen.info/1964.html

 

[romualdo]

2 hours ago, l p said:

this is a good reference

https://mingus.onttonen.info/1964.html

 

thanks for the tip/link

unfortunately it hasn' been updated since 2004, omitting the Mingus Mosaic box entries from 2012

[l p]

on that Mingus Mosaic box, the new 1964 items, with dolphy in the group, are

Town Hall Concert April 4, 1964    

1-2        Sophisticated Lady 5:49
2-5        Peggy's Blue Skylight 19:13
2-6        Parkerania, Part One 6:38
2-7        Parkerania, Part Two 8:57
2-4        Fables Of Faubus 11:06

another good one is

https://adale.org/Discographies/LateED.html

 

the known unissued europe items with dolphy are below, but they may have been issued in the past few years.

 

April 14 Copenhagen
Parkeriana    24:48

 

April 18th  (aka 19th) Théâtre des Champs-Elysées, Paris

I Can't Get Started  fm broadcast   8 minutes    
 

and  this 2004 verve release is the first to have the real 'so long eric' 22 minutes from 

April 18th  (aka 19th) Théâtre des Champs-Elysées, Paris

https://www.discogs.com/release/3874828-Charles-Mingus-The-Great-Concert-Of-Charles-Mingus

other releases had an edited version of 'so long eric' from 17th Salle Wagram paris.

 

Edited November 16 by l p

[Luciano]

Ciao IP

Unfortunately, I can't get this right. I have all the records concerning the two concerts held in Paris on 17-19 April (perhaps 19 is an incorrect date) and it seems to me that several tracks are different. I've been comparing them for days, I'm going crazy. Anyway I think I'm starting to understand something

Thank you very much for your reply and enjoy listening to your favourite records

On 11/13/2024 at 8:03 PM, mjazzg said:

https://www.discogs.com/master/1133654-Charles-Mingus-Revenge-The-Legendary-Paris-Concerts

https://www.discogs.com/master/239126-Charles-Mingus-The-Great-Concert-Of-Charles-Mingus

https://www.discogs.com/release/15887968-The-Charles-Mingus-Quintet-Charles-Mingus-Sextet-Eric-Dolphy-The-Salle-Wagram-Concert-Complete-Editisrsltid=AfmBOorTHJUUqrKcsHWEiZGB0-t_V_XVRC4fzggas1Oclvzkwr2BFtMt

These links might help, they give tracklists for each release

 

Many Thanks

On 11/15/2024 at 6:51 AM, romualdo said:

thanks for the tip/link

unfortunately it hasn' been updated since 2004, omitting the Mingus Mosaic box entries from 2012

many thanks

[romualdo]

M8359]Add   Charles Mingus

Charles Mingus' Town Hall Concert 1964 : Johnny Coles (tp) Eric Dolphy (as,fl,b-cl) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus (b) Dannie Richmond (d)

Concert "Town Hall", New York, April 4, 1964

	A.T.F.W. [ATFWUSA] [ATFWYOU] (jb p-solo)	Mosaic MD7-253 [CD]
	Sophisticated lady (p & b only)	-
	So long Eric	Charles Mingus JWS005S, OJC 042, CD042-2 [CD],
		Enlightenment (E)EN4CD9173 [CD]
	Praying with Eric [Meditation for a pair of wire cutters]	Charles Mingus JWS005S, OJC 042, CD042-2 [CD],
		Enlightenment (E)EN4CD9173 [CD]
	Peggy's blue skylight	Mosaic MD7-253 [CD]
	Parkeriana (Parts 1 & 2)	-
	Fables of Faubus	-

Note:

Both titles from Charles Mingus JWS005S also on America (F)30AM6140, Bellaphon (G)BLPS19051, Debut (Jap)LP88018, SMJ-6289, Fantasy (F)68425.98425 [CD], all titled "Charles Mingus - Town Hall Concert". Both titles from Charles Mingus JWS005S also on Fantasy JWS9 titled "Charles Mingus : Town Hall Concert"; with erroneous location as "Tyrone Guthrie Theatre, Minneapolis" - further adding to the confusion is that Charles Mingus JWS009 is on May 13, 1965. Both titles from Charles Mingus JWS005S also on Prestige P24092 titled "Portrait"; see May 13, 1965 for rest of this 2 LP set. All issued titles also on Mosaic MD7-253 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus - The Jazz Workshop Concerts 1964-65"; see following sessions to September 18, 1965 for rest of this 7 CD set.

[M8360]Add   Charles Mingus

Concertgebouw - Amsterdam : Johnny Coles (tp) Eric Dolphy (as,b-cl,fl) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus (b) Dannie Richmond (d)

Concert "Concertgebouw", Amsterdam, The Netherlands, April 10, 1964

	A.T.F.W. [ATFWUSA] [ATFWYOU] (jb solo-p)	Ulysee (F)AROC 50506/07, CD1001 [CD], AROC50608
	Parkeriana [Ow (Dedicated to a genius)]	-                  -
	So long Eric [Don't stay over there too long Eric]	-                  -
	Orange was the color of her dress, then blue silk	-                  -
	Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only)	Ulysse (F)AROC 50608, CD1002 [CD]
	Meditations on a pair of wire cutters	Ulysee (F)AROC 50506/07, CD1002 [CD]
	Fables of Faubus (parts 1 & 2) (cm,dr vcl)	Ulysse (F)AROC 50608, CD1002 [CD]

Note:

"Fables of Faubus" issued in 2 parts. On Ulysse CD1001 [CD] "Ow" has mistakenly been separated into two bands - there's applause in the middle - so what's listed in the credits as band 2 is actually 3, etc. - Source Kevin Whitehead - Cadence Magazine. Ulysse CD1001/CD1002 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus Sextet : Concertgebouw Amsterdam April 10, 1964". All above titles also on Jazz Collectors (Sp)JC429 [CD] titled "Complete Live in Amsterdam"; this is a 2 CD set - the concert appears in exact concert order for the first time on this CD, including nearly 3 minutes of Mingus' solo on "Fables of Faubus" that were absent from every previous CD issue. "Ow! is titled "Parkeriana" on this CD. All titles from Ulysse (F)AROC 50506/507 also on DIW (Jap)DIW-11889. All titles from Ulysse (F)AROC 50608 also on DIW (Jap)DIW-1206, both titled "Concertgebouw - Amsterdam, Volume 2". All above titles also on DIW (Jap)DIW-1188/89, DIW-25023/4/5, DIW-323/4 [CD], Mosaic MD7-253 [CD].

[M8361]Add   Charles Mingus

Live In Oslo 1964 : Johnny Coles (tp) Eric Dolphy (as,b-cl,fl) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus (b,vcl) Dannie Richmond (d,vcl)

Concert, University Aula, Oslo, Norway, April 12, 1964

	Meditations	Landscape LS2-919 [CD]
	Parkeriana [Ow !]	Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD], Landscape LS2-919 [CD],
		Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD]
	Fables of Faubus (cm,dr vcl)	Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD], Landscape LS2-913 [CD]
	Orange was the color of her dress	Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD], Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD],
		Landscape LS2-913 [CD]
	So long Eric	Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD]
	Take the "A" train	-              , Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD]

Note:

The above from a private recording. Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD] titled "Live In Oslo 1964". Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD] = Evro Productions (Du)ITJZ194105 [CD] titled "Live In Oslo 1964". Landscape LS2-913 [CD] titled "Live in Oslo 1964, Vol. I". Landscape LS2-919 [CD] titled "Live in Oslo 1964, Vol. II". All titles from Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD] titled "Orange", also on Polydor (Jap)POCJ-1875 [CD].

[M8362] Add   Charles Mingus

Live In Stockholm 1964 : same pers.

Live "Koncerthuset", Stockholm, Sweden, April 13, 1964

	(Rehearsal)
	So long Eric (take 1)	Royal Jazz (Dan)RJD518 [CD]
	Meditations (false start)	-
	Meditations	-
	So long Eric (take 2)	-
	(Concert)
	Peggy's blue skylight (*)	-
	When Irish eyes are smiling	-
	Fables of Faubus (cm,dr vcl) (*)	-
	Orange was the color of her dress (*)	-

Note:

(*) These three titles also on Bandstand (It)BDCD1524 [CD], (Jap)TKCB-30524 [CD], both titled "Meditations on integration"; see April 14, 1964 for one more title.

[M8363] Add   Charles Mingus

Astral Weeks : same pers.

Live "Old Fellow Palaet's Store Sal", Copenhagen, Denmark, April 14, 1964

	So long Eric (jp out)	HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]
	ATFWUSA [ATFWYOU] (jb solo-p)	Landscape (F)LS2-905 [CD], HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]
	Orange was the color of her dress, then blue silk	Landscape (F)LS2-905 [CD], HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]
	Meditations	Moon (It)MLP016-1, MCD016-2 [CD], Landscape
		(F)LS2-905 [CD], Bandstand (It)BDCD1524 [CD],
		(Jap)TKCB-30524 [CD], HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]
	Ow! (into) (*)	HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]
	Parkeriana (*)	-
	Fables of Faubus (into) (cm,dr vcl,#)	Moon (It)MLP016-1, MCD016-2 [CD], Landscape
		(F)LS2-905 [CD], HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]
	Fables of Faubus (#)	HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]

Note:

Tracks are listed in order as on HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]. The announcements show that the first three items were in that order at the start of the concert. The remaining tunes are not indicated. "Fables of Faubus" is incomplete on Moon (It)MLP016-1. (*) These titles listed as 2 tracks but play as one continuous piece. (#) These titles listed as 2 tracks but play as one continuous piece on HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]. This issue lists the second part of "Fables of Faubus" as "Ysabel's table dance". HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD] titled "Copenhagen 1964"; a 2 CD set.

[M8364] Add   Charles Mingus

same pers

Broadcast, Bremen, Germany, April 16, 1964

	Hope so, Eric (pt 1) [So long Eric]	Ingo (It)10
	Hope so, Eric (pt 2) [So long Eric]	-
	ATFWUSA [ATFWYOU] (jb solo)	Ingo (It)10, Unique Jazz (It)UJ23
	Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only)	-                   -
	Fables of Faubus (pt 1) (cm,dr vcl)	Ingo (It)13
	Fables of Faubus (pt 2) (cm,dr vcl)	-
	Parkeriana [Ow !]	Ingo (It)15
	Meditations	-      , Unique Jazz (It)UJ23

Note:

Ingo (It)10 titled "Hope so Eric, Vol.1". Ingo (It)13 titled "Fables of Faubus, Vol. 2". Ingo (It)15 titled "Parkeriana, Vol. 3". Unique Jazz (It)UJ23 titled "Mingus Sextet live in Europe". All above titles also on Jazz Lips JL774 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus - Complete Bremen Concert"; this is a 2 CD set. All above titles also on Sunnyside SSC1570 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus @ Bremen 1964 & 1975"; a 4 CD set.

[M8365]Add   Charles Mingus

The Great Concert Of Charles Mingus : Johnny Coles (tp-4) Eric Dolphy (as-1,fl-2,b-cl-3) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus (b,vcl) Dannie Richmond (d,vcl)

ORTF Radio Broadcast, Concert "Salle Wagram", Paris, France, April 17, 1964

	So long Eric (parts 1 & 2) (1,4)	America (F)30AM003/4/5, France's Concert
		(F)FC110, FCD110 [CD], Le Jazz (E)CD38 [CD], Jazz
		Hour (Du)JHR73516 [CD], Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	Parkeriana [Ow !] (1)	France's Concert (F)FC110, FCD110 [CD], Bandstand
		(It)BDCD1530 [CD], (Jap)TKCV-70439 [CD], Le Jazz
		(E)CD38 [CD], Jazz Roots (It)CD56047 [CD], Object
		(E)ORO103 [CD], Four Star FS-40070 [CD]
	Peggy's blue skylight (1,*)	France's Concert (F)FC102, FCD102 [CD], Object
		(E)ORO103 [CD], Four Star FS-40070 [CD], Le Jazz
		(E)CD19 [CD]
	Orange was the color of her dress (3,*)	Frances' Concert (F)FC102, Jazz Roots (It)CD56047
		[CD], Jazz Hour (Du)JHR73516 [CD], Le Jazz (E)CD19
		[CD]
	Meditations on integration (2,3,*)	France's Concert (F)FC102, FCD102 [CD], Jazz Roots
		(It)CD56047 [CD], Le Jazz (E)CD19 [CD]
	Fables of Faubus (cm,dr vcl) (3,*)	France's Concert FCD102 [CD], Object (E)ORO103
		[CD], Jazz Hour (Du)JHR73516 [CD], Four Star
		FS-40070 [CD], Le Jazz (E)CD19 [CD]

Note:

Above titles are arranged in probable concert order as listed on the France's Concert releases. "So long Eric" as "Goodbye pork pye hat" on most releases and is edited on America (F)30AM003/4/5. Le Jazz (E)CD19 [CD] titled "Paris 1964". Le Jazz (E)CD38 [CD] titled "Paris 1964, Vol. 2". Object (E)ORO103 [CD] titled "Fables of Faubus". Jazz Hour (Du)JHR73516 [CD] titled "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat". Four Star FS-40070 [CD] titled "Fables of Faubus". Bandstand (It)BDCD1530, (Jap)BDCD1530 [CD], both titled "Parkeriana"; see August 22, 1972 for rest of CD's. France's Concert (F)FC102, FCD102 [CD], both titled "Meditation". France's Concert (F)FC110, FCD110 [CD], both titled "Live in Paris, 1964, Vol. 2"; CD brochure does not list Johnny Coles (tp) on "So long Eric". (*) These titles also on ROIR FCCD2102 [CD] titled "Meditation 1964". All above titles also on Revenge 32002 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus Revenge !"; this CD lists date incorrectly as April 18, 1964. All above France's Concert releases incorrectly list date as April 18, 1964, but list the correct venue. All above titles also on EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD] titled "The Great Jazz Concert of Charles Mingus"; this CD incorrectly lists recording date as April 18, 1964; see following session for rest of this 2 CD set. All above titles also on Jazz Collectors (Sp)JC428 [CD].

[M8366]Add   Charles Mingus

Eric Dolphy (as-1,fl-2,b-cl-3) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus, Dannie Richmond (b,vcl)

Concert "Theatre des Champs-Elysees", Paris, France, April 18, 1964

	A.T.F.W. [Art Tatum Fats Waller]	EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD]
	Introduction and presentation (by Mingus)	America (F)30AM003/4/5, France's Concert (F)FC110,
		FCD110 [CD], Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	So long Eric (1)	EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD]
	Orange was the color of her dress (3)	America (F)30AM003/4/5, Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	Fables of Faubus (parts 1 & 2) (3)	America (F)30AM003/4/5, Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only)	France's Concert (F)FC102, America (F)30AM003/4/5,
		Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	Parkeriana [Ow !] (1)	America (F)30AM003/4/5, Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	Meditations on integration (2,3)	America (F)30AM003/4/5, Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	I can't get started (ed-fl,cm only,*)	(unissued)

Note:

Above titles listed in concert order per EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD]. Some releases list date as April 19, 1964 probably because the concert started late in the evening of April 18th and finished in the early morning hours of April 19th. "So long Eric" as "Goodbye pork pie hat" on America (F)30AM003/4/5 is from the April 17, 1964 concert, see there. "Introduction and presentation [by Mingus], is incorrectly listed as being from the April 17, 1964 concert on releases. Mingus introduces "Johnny Coles' trumpet" (not "Johnny Coles, trumpet") having put the trumpet on a chair while Coles was in hospital after collapsing during the April 17th concert. All titles from America (F)30AM003/4/5 also on America (Jap)SL-5027/8/9, Musidisc (Jap)YB7501/2/3MU, Prestige PR34001 (F)68529/30/31, (It)HBT6135. All titles, except (*), also on EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD].

[M8367] Add   Charles Mingus

Mingus In Europe : same pers.

Concert "Stadthalle", Wuppertal, Germany, April 26, 1964

	Fables of Faubus (cm,dr vcl) (3)	Enja (G)3049, (G)3049-2 [CD]
	Startin' (2,cm only)	-         -
	Peggy's blue skylight (1,2)	(G)3077, (G)3077-2 [CD]
	Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only)	-         -     , Jazz Masterworks (It)CJZLP10
	Orange was the color of her dress (3)	-         -     , Jazz Masterworks (It)CJZLP10
	ATFWYOU [ATFWUSA] (jb p-solo) (A)	-         -
	So long Eric	Enja (G)3077-2 [CD]
	Meditations	Enja (G)3049-2 [CD]

Note:

(A) On Enja label as "Goodbye pork pie hat". "Starting" is an improvisation based on "I can't get started". "Peggy's blue skylight" on label as "Charlemagne" and announced as "Charle-Ming". "Fables of Faubus" issued in 2 parts on Enja (G)3049 and equivalents. All titles from Enja (G)3049 also on Polydor (Jap)28MJ-3002, 15MJ-9052, all titled "Mingus in Europe, Vol. 1", and also on Amigo (Swd)AMLP833, Enja (Jap)28MJ-3002. All titles from Enja (G)3077 also on Polydor (Jap)28MJ-3068, 15MJ-9053, all titled "Mingus in Europe, Vol. 2, and also on Enja (Jap)28MJ-3068. All titles from Enja (G)3049-2 [CD] also on Enja (Jap)K30Y-6239 [CD], ENJ-1002 [CD], both titled "Mingus in Europe, Vol. 1". All titles from Enja (G)3077-2 [CD] also on Enja (Jap)K30Y-6240 [CD], ENJ-1006 [CD], both titled "Mingus in Europe, Vol. 2".

[M8368] Add   Charles Mingus

Mingus In Stuttgart : same pers.

SDR Radio Broadcast, Concert "Liederhalle", Stuttgart, April 28, 1964

	ATFWYOU [ATFWUSA] (jb p-solo) (#)	Unique Jazz (It)UJ009
	Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only,#)	-
	Peggy's blue skylight (1)	(It)UJ008
	Orange was the color of her dress (3)(*)	(It)UJ007
	Fables of Faubus (3)(*,#)	(It)UJ009
	So long Eric (1) (*)	(It)UJ007
	Meditations (2,3) (*)	(It)UJ008
	These foolish things (2,cm only) (*)	(It)UJ007

Note:

(*) These titles are edited on Unique Jazz. The fourth tune mistitled "Orange was the color of her hair" on Unique Jazz. (#) These titles also on Mastersong (Aus)502942. Unique Jazz (It)UJ007/8 is a double album & Unique Jazz(It)UJ009 is a single album, all titled "Mingus in Stuttgart, April 28, 1964 concert". All titles from Unique Jazz (It)UJ009 also on Unique Jazz RKO 1038 [CD]. All above titles also on Get Back GET2036 [CD] titled "Stuttgart Meditations".

1 hour ago, Luciano said:

Ciao IP

Unfortunately, I can't get this right. I have all the records concerning the two concerts held in Paris on 17-19 April (perhaps 19 is an incorrect date) and it seems to me that several tracks are different. I've been comparing them for days, I'm going crazy. Anyway I think I'm starting to understand something

Thank you very much for your reply and enjoy listening to your favourite records

Many Thanks

many thanks

Luciano, I've added the complete "released" April 1964 live recordings of Mingus/Dolphy, primarily the european tour - extracted from The Lord Discography. Hope this is helpful for you

[romualdo]

There's also the Jazz Icons DVD (2007, Reelin' In The Years) "Charles Mingus - Live In '64" - stunning vision (& sound) of the touring band in Belgium (April 19 - no LP/CD release AFAIK), Norway (April 12) & Sweden (April 13) from this tour

[Luciano]

Many Thanks Romualdo

are you of Italian origin? Your contribution should be valuable, I will compare it in detail

 

[John L]

Luciano - Your confusion is understandable.  As Romualdo's posting of the discography above shows, there were two different Paris concerts.  Both of them were recorded.  Different CD and LP packages have released various mixes of these tracks, and some packages include tracks from both of the two different concerts.   The discography above should help you sort out which tracks are where.   Johnny Coles only played on So Long Eric in the first concert.  He became sick and missed the rest of the tour.   

[romualdo]

11 hours ago, Luciano said:

Many Thanks Romualdo

are you of Italian origin? Your contribution should be valuable, I will compare it in detail

 

no Luciano, actually Lithuanian (both parents) but I was born in London then migrated (with family) to Australia in 1961 & have lived here since. My parents just liked that name

Are you aware of the massive 5 volume "Il Jazz Californiano, 1951-1960" written by Antonio Lanza - just published this year

It's Italian text only but one of my work colleagues (who is Italian) here in Brisbane has translated the first volume into english after I introduced her to the author via another organissimo member (Dan/Stonewall). Volume one has been published via Amazon

https://www.aracneeditrice.eu/pubblicazioni/il-jazz-californiano-1951-1960-antonio-lanza-9791259941978.html

https://www.amazon.com/Californian-Jazz-1951-1960-Antonio-Lanza/dp/B0DF2MDYTS/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1732157622&sr=1-1

Edited November 21 by romualdo

[JSngry]

There should be a box set of this tour.

[Ken Dryden]

Jaki Byard described what happened when Johnny Coles collapsed that night in my interview with him in 1990.

[JSngry]

What happened?

[Ken Dryden]

What was that 1964 tour like? It must have been rather eventful with Johnny Coles getting ill.

Yeah, it was quite a scene. That was in Paris, when he fell back. Hazel Scott, Bud Powell and his wife, they were standing behind the stage watching us. When Johnny fell, they went out and called the ambulance and got him to the hospital right away. Never forget that.

I am thinking of starting a Substack blog to feature interviews I've done over the past 37 years, with the idea of publishing a book.

Progress is going well, but editing is time consuming, removing "you know" and repeated words that would get tiresome reading. Of course the interviewer needs editing, too...

 

 

 

[Luciano]

5 hours ago, romualdo said:

no Luciano, actually Lithuanian (both parents) but I was born in London then migrated (with family) to Australia in 1961 & have lived here since. My parents just liked that name

Are you aware of the massive 5 volume "Il Jazz Californiano, 1951-1960" written by Antonio Lanza - just published this year

It's Italian text only but one of my work colleagues (who is Italian) here in Brisbane has translated the first volume into english after I introduced her to the author via another organissimo member (Dan/Stonewall). Volume one has been published via Amazon

https://www.aracneeditrice.eu/pubblicazioni/il-jazz-californiano-1951-1960-antonio-lanza-9791259941978.html

https://www.amazon.com/Californian-Jazz-1951-1960-Antonio-Lanza/dp/B0DF2MDYTS/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1732157622&sr=1-1

Ciao

thank you for your new answer, Romualdo is a fairly common name in Italy

No, I did not know Lanza's book, I think it is interesting (Ps: congratulations to your friend who translated the book)

11 hours ago, John L said:

Luciano - Your confusion is understandable.  As Romualdo's posting of the discography above shows, there were two different Paris concerts.  Both of them were recorded.  Different CD and LP packages have released various mixes of these tracks, and some packages include tracks from both of the two different concerts.   The discography above should help you sort out which tracks are where.   Johnny Coles only played on So Long Eric in the first concert.  He became sick and missed the rest of the tour.   

Many Thaks John L

[Luciano]

On 11/16/2024 at 12:18 PM, romualdo said:

M8359]Add   Charles Mingus

Charles Mingus' Town Hall Concert 1964 : Johnny Coles (tp) Eric Dolphy (as,fl,b-cl) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus (b) Dannie Richmond (d)

Concert "Town Hall", New York, April 4, 1964

	A.T.F.W. [ATFWUSA] [ATFWYOU] (jb p-solo)	Mosaic MD7-253 [CD]
	Sophisticated lady (p & b only)	-
	So long Eric	Charles Mingus JWS005S, OJC 042, CD042-2 [CD],
		Enlightenment (E)EN4CD9173 [CD]
	Praying with Eric [Meditation for a pair of wire cutters]	Charles Mingus JWS005S, OJC 042, CD042-2 [CD],
		Enlightenment (E)EN4CD9173 [CD]
	Peggy's blue skylight	Mosaic MD7-253 [CD]
	Parkeriana (Parts 1 & 2)	-
	Fables of Faubus	-

Note:

Both titles from Charles Mingus JWS005S also on America (F)30AM6140, Bellaphon (G)BLPS19051, Debut (Jap)LP88018, SMJ-6289, Fantasy (F)68425.98425 [CD], all titled "Charles Mingus - Town Hall Concert". Both titles from Charles Mingus JWS005S also on Fantasy JWS9 titled "Charles Mingus : Town Hall Concert"; with erroneous location as "Tyrone Guthrie Theatre, Minneapolis" - further adding to the confusion is that Charles Mingus JWS009 is on May 13, 1965. Both titles from Charles Mingus JWS005S also on Prestige P24092 titled "Portrait"; see May 13, 1965 for rest of this 2 LP set. All issued titles also on Mosaic MD7-253 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus - The Jazz Workshop Concerts 1964-65"; see following sessions to September 18, 1965 for rest of this 7 CD set.

[M8360]Add   Charles Mingus

Concertgebouw - Amsterdam : Johnny Coles (tp) Eric Dolphy (as,b-cl,fl) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus (b) Dannie Richmond (d)

Concert "Concertgebouw", Amsterdam, The Netherlands, April 10, 1964

	A.T.F.W. [ATFWUSA] [ATFWYOU] (jb solo-p)	Ulysee (F)AROC 50506/07, CD1001 [CD], AROC50608
	Parkeriana [Ow (Dedicated to a genius)]	-                  -
	So long Eric [Don't stay over there too long Eric]	-                  -
	Orange was the color of her dress, then blue silk	-                  -
	Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only)	Ulysse (F)AROC 50608, CD1002 [CD]
	Meditations on a pair of wire cutters	Ulysee (F)AROC 50506/07, CD1002 [CD]
	Fables of Faubus (parts 1 & 2) (cm,dr vcl)	Ulysse (F)AROC 50608, CD1002 [CD]

Note:

"Fables of Faubus" issued in 2 parts. On Ulysse CD1001 [CD] "Ow" has mistakenly been separated into two bands - there's applause in the middle - so what's listed in the credits as band 2 is actually 3, etc. - Source Kevin Whitehead - Cadence Magazine. Ulysse CD1001/CD1002 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus Sextet : Concertgebouw Amsterdam April 10, 1964". All above titles also on Jazz Collectors (Sp)JC429 [CD] titled "Complete Live in Amsterdam"; this is a 2 CD set - the concert appears in exact concert order for the first time on this CD, including nearly 3 minutes of Mingus' solo on "Fables of Faubus" that were absent from every previous CD issue. "Ow! is titled "Parkeriana" on this CD. All titles from Ulysse (F)AROC 50506/507 also on DIW (Jap)DIW-11889. All titles from Ulysse (F)AROC 50608 also on DIW (Jap)DIW-1206, both titled "Concertgebouw - Amsterdam, Volume 2". All above titles also on DIW (Jap)DIW-1188/89, DIW-25023/4/5, DIW-323/4 [CD], Mosaic MD7-253 [CD].

[M8361]Add   Charles Mingus

Live In Oslo 1964 : Johnny Coles (tp) Eric Dolphy (as,b-cl,fl) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus (b,vcl) Dannie Richmond (d,vcl)

Concert, University Aula, Oslo, Norway, April 12, 1964

	Meditations	Landscape LS2-919 [CD]
	Parkeriana [Ow !]	Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD], Landscape LS2-919 [CD],
		Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD]
	Fables of Faubus (cm,dr vcl)	Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD], Landscape LS2-913 [CD]
	Orange was the color of her dress	Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD], Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD],
		Landscape LS2-913 [CD]
	So long Eric	Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD]
	Take the "A" train	-              , Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD]

Note:

The above from a private recording. Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD] titled "Live In Oslo 1964". Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD] = Evro Productions (Du)ITJZ194105 [CD] titled "Live In Oslo 1964". Landscape LS2-913 [CD] titled "Live in Oslo 1964, Vol. I". Landscape LS2-919 [CD] titled "Live in Oslo 1964, Vol. II". All titles from Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD] titled "Orange", also on Polydor (Jap)POCJ-1875 [CD].

[M8362] Add   Charles Mingus

Live In Stockholm 1964 : same pers.

Live "Koncerthuset", Stockholm, Sweden, April 13, 1964

	(Rehearsal)
	So long Eric (take 1)	Royal Jazz (Dan)RJD518 [CD]
	Meditations (false start)	-
	Meditations	-
	So long Eric (take 2)	-
	(Concert)
	Peggy's blue skylight (*)	-
	When Irish eyes are smiling	-
	Fables of Faubus (cm,dr vcl) (*)	-
	Orange was the color of her dress (*)	-

Note:

(*) These three titles also on Bandstand (It)BDCD1524 [CD], (Jap)TKCB-30524 [CD], both titled "Meditations on integration"; see April 14, 1964 for one more title.

[M8363] Add   Charles Mingus

Astral Weeks : same pers.

Live "Old Fellow Palaet's Store Sal", Copenhagen, Denmark, April 14, 1964

	So long Eric (jp out)	HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]
	ATFWUSA [ATFWYOU] (jb solo-p)	Landscape (F)LS2-905 [CD], HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]
	Orange was the color of her dress, then blue silk	Landscape (F)LS2-905 [CD], HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]
	Meditations	Moon (It)MLP016-1, MCD016-2 [CD], Landscape
		(F)LS2-905 [CD], Bandstand (It)BDCD1524 [CD],
		(Jap)TKCB-30524 [CD], HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]
	Ow! (into) (*)	HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]
	Parkeriana (*)	-
	Fables of Faubus (into) (cm,dr vcl,#)	Moon (It)MLP016-1, MCD016-2 [CD], Landscape
		(F)LS2-905 [CD], HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]
	Fables of Faubus (#)	HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]

Note:

Tracks are listed in order as on HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]. The announcements show that the first three items were in that order at the start of the concert. The remaining tunes are not indicated. "Fables of Faubus" is incomplete on Moon (It)MLP016-1. (*) These titles listed as 2 tracks but play as one continuous piece. (#) These titles listed as 2 tracks but play as one continuous piece on HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]. This issue lists the second part of "Fables of Faubus" as "Ysabel's table dance". HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD] titled "Copenhagen 1964"; a 2 CD set.

[M8364] Add   Charles Mingus

same pers

Broadcast, Bremen, Germany, April 16, 1964

	Hope so, Eric (pt 1) [So long Eric]	Ingo (It)10
	Hope so, Eric (pt 2) [So long Eric]	-
	ATFWUSA [ATFWYOU] (jb solo)	Ingo (It)10, Unique Jazz (It)UJ23
	Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only)	-                   -
	Fables of Faubus (pt 1) (cm,dr vcl)	Ingo (It)13
	Fables of Faubus (pt 2) (cm,dr vcl)	-
	Parkeriana [Ow !]	Ingo (It)15
	Meditations	-      , Unique Jazz (It)UJ23

Note:

Ingo (It)10 titled "Hope so Eric, Vol.1". Ingo (It)13 titled "Fables of Faubus, Vol. 2". Ingo (It)15 titled "Parkeriana, Vol. 3". Unique Jazz (It)UJ23 titled "Mingus Sextet live in Europe". All above titles also on Jazz Lips JL774 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus - Complete Bremen Concert"; this is a 2 CD set. All above titles also on Sunnyside SSC1570 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus @ Bremen 1964 & 1975"; a 4 CD set.

[M8365]Add   Charles Mingus

The Great Concert Of Charles Mingus : Johnny Coles (tp-4) Eric Dolphy (as-1,fl-2,b-cl-3) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus (b,vcl) Dannie Richmond (d,vcl)

ORTF Radio Broadcast, Concert "Salle Wagram", Paris, France, April 17, 1964

	So long Eric (parts 1 & 2) (1,4)	America (F)30AM003/4/5, France's Concert
		(F)FC110, FCD110 [CD], Le Jazz (E)CD38 [CD], Jazz
		Hour (Du)JHR73516 [CD], Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	Parkeriana [Ow !] (1)	France's Concert (F)FC110, FCD110 [CD], Bandstand
		(It)BDCD1530 [CD], (Jap)TKCV-70439 [CD], Le Jazz
		(E)CD38 [CD], Jazz Roots (It)CD56047 [CD], Object
		(E)ORO103 [CD], Four Star FS-40070 [CD]
	Peggy's blue skylight (1,*)	France's Concert (F)FC102, FCD102 [CD], Object
		(E)ORO103 [CD], Four Star FS-40070 [CD], Le Jazz
		(E)CD19 [CD]
	Orange was the color of her dress (3,*)	Frances' Concert (F)FC102, Jazz Roots (It)CD56047
		[CD], Jazz Hour (Du)JHR73516 [CD], Le Jazz (E)CD19
		[CD]
	Meditations on integration (2,3,*)	France's Concert (F)FC102, FCD102 [CD], Jazz Roots
		(It)CD56047 [CD], Le Jazz (E)CD19 [CD]
	Fables of Faubus (cm,dr vcl) (3,*)	France's Concert FCD102 [CD], Object (E)ORO103
		[CD], Jazz Hour (Du)JHR73516 [CD], Four Star
		FS-40070 [CD], Le Jazz (E)CD19 [CD]

Note:

Above titles are arranged in probable concert order as listed on the France's Concert releases. "So long Eric" as "Goodbye pork pye hat" on most releases and is edited on America (F)30AM003/4/5. Le Jazz (E)CD19 [CD] titled "Paris 1964". Le Jazz (E)CD38 [CD] titled "Paris 1964, Vol. 2". Object (E)ORO103 [CD] titled "Fables of Faubus". Jazz Hour (Du)JHR73516 [CD] titled "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat". Four Star FS-40070 [CD] titled "Fables of Faubus". Bandstand (It)BDCD1530, (Jap)BDCD1530 [CD], both titled "Parkeriana"; see August 22, 1972 for rest of CD's. France's Concert (F)FC102, FCD102 [CD], both titled "Meditation". France's Concert (F)FC110, FCD110 [CD], both titled "Live in Paris, 1964, Vol. 2"; CD brochure does not list Johnny Coles (tp) on "So long Eric". (*) These titles also on ROIR FCCD2102 [CD] titled "Meditation 1964". All above titles also on Revenge 32002 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus Revenge !"; this CD lists date incorrectly as April 18, 1964. All above France's Concert releases incorrectly list date as April 18, 1964, but list the correct venue. All above titles also on EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD] titled "The Great Jazz Concert of Charles Mingus"; this CD incorrectly lists recording date as April 18, 1964; see following session for rest of this 2 CD set. All above titles also on Jazz Collectors (Sp)JC428 [CD].

[M8366]Add   Charles Mingus

Eric Dolphy (as-1,fl-2,b-cl-3) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus, Dannie Richmond (b,vcl)

Concert "Theatre des Champs-Elysees", Paris, France, April 18, 1964

	A.T.F.W. [Art Tatum Fats Waller]	EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD]
	Introduction and presentation (by Mingus)	America (F)30AM003/4/5, France's Concert (F)FC110,
		FCD110 [CD], Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	So long Eric (1)	EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD]
	Orange was the color of her dress (3)	America (F)30AM003/4/5, Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	Fables of Faubus (parts 1 & 2) (3)	America (F)30AM003/4/5, Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only)	France's Concert (F)FC102, America (F)30AM003/4/5,
		Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	Parkeriana [Ow !] (1)	America (F)30AM003/4/5, Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	Meditations on integration (2,3)	America (F)30AM003/4/5, Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	I can't get started (ed-fl,cm only,*)	(unissued)

Note:

Above titles listed in concert order per EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD]. Some releases list date as April 19, 1964 probably because the concert started late in the evening of April 18th and finished in the early morning hours of April 19th. "So long Eric" as "Goodbye pork pie hat" on America (F)30AM003/4/5 is from the April 17, 1964 concert, see there. "Introduction and presentation [by Mingus], is incorrectly listed as being from the April 17, 1964 concert on releases. Mingus introduces "Johnny Coles' trumpet" (not "Johnny Coles, trumpet") having put the trumpet on a chair while Coles was in hospital after collapsing during the April 17th concert. All titles from America (F)30AM003/4/5 also on America (Jap)SL-5027/8/9, Musidisc (Jap)YB7501/2/3MU, Prestige PR34001 (F)68529/30/31, (It)HBT6135. All titles, except (*), also on EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD].

[M8367] Add   Charles Mingus

Mingus In Europe : same pers.

Concert "Stadthalle", Wuppertal, Germany, April 26, 1964

	Fables of Faubus (cm,dr vcl) (3)	Enja (G)3049, (G)3049-2 [CD]
	Startin' (2,cm only)	-         -
	Peggy's blue skylight (1,2)	(G)3077, (G)3077-2 [CD]
	Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only)	-         -     , Jazz Masterworks (It)CJZLP10
	Orange was the color of her dress (3)	-         -     , Jazz Masterworks (It)CJZLP10
	ATFWYOU [ATFWUSA] (jb p-solo) (A)	-         -
	So long Eric	Enja (G)3077-2 [CD]
	Meditations	Enja (G)3049-2 [CD]

Note:

(A) On Enja label as "Goodbye pork pie hat". "Starting" is an improvisation based on "I can't get started". "Peggy's blue skylight" on label as "Charlemagne" and announced as "Charle-Ming". "Fables of Faubus" issued in 2 parts on Enja (G)3049 and equivalents. All titles from Enja (G)3049 also on Polydor (Jap)28MJ-3002, 15MJ-9052, all titled "Mingus in Europe, Vol. 1", and also on Amigo (Swd)AMLP833, Enja (Jap)28MJ-3002. All titles from Enja (G)3077 also on Polydor (Jap)28MJ-3068, 15MJ-9053, all titled "Mingus in Europe, Vol. 2, and also on Enja (Jap)28MJ-3068. All titles from Enja (G)3049-2 [CD] also on Enja (Jap)K30Y-6239 [CD], ENJ-1002 [CD], both titled "Mingus in Europe, Vol. 1". All titles from Enja (G)3077-2 [CD] also on Enja (Jap)K30Y-6240 [CD], ENJ-1006 [CD], both titled "Mingus in Europe, Vol. 2".

[M8368] Add   Charles Mingus

Mingus In Stuttgart : same pers.

SDR Radio Broadcast, Concert "Liederhalle", Stuttgart, April 28, 1964

	ATFWYOU [ATFWUSA] (jb p-solo) (#)	Unique Jazz (It)UJ009
	Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only,#)	-
	Peggy's blue skylight (1)	(It)UJ008
	Orange was the color of her dress (3)(*)	(It)UJ007
	Fables of Faubus (3)(*,#)	(It)UJ009
	So long Eric (1) (*)	(It)UJ007
	Meditations (2,3) (*)	(It)UJ008
	These foolish things (2,cm only) (*)	(It)UJ007

Note:

(*) These titles are edited on Unique Jazz. The fourth tune mistitled "Orange was the color of her hair" on Unique Jazz. (#) These titles also on Mastersong (Aus)502942. Unique Jazz (It)UJ007/8 is a double album & Unique Jazz(It)UJ009 is a single album, all titled "Mingus in Stuttgart, April 28, 1964 concert". All titles from Unique Jazz (It)UJ009 also on Unique Jazz RKO 1038 [CD]. All above titles also on Get Back GET2036 [CD] titled "Stuttgart Meditations".

Luciano, I've added the complete "released" April 1964 live recordings of Mingus/Dolphy, primarily the european tour - extracted from The Lord Discography. Hope this is helpful for you

Ciao, I don't want to be wrong but Parkeriana in the Concert held in Oslo:

Jazz Up JU 307 has a duration of approximately 2:29

Landascape LS2-919 has a duration of approximately 18:36

So if they are the same track, it means that Jazz Up is incomplete, otherwise Parkeriana has two versions

Is this correct?

1 minute ago, Luciano said:

Ciao, I don't want to be wrong but Parkeriana in the Concert held in Oslo:

Jazz Up JU 307 has a duration of approximately 2:29

Landascape LS2-919 has a duration of approximately 18:36

So if they are the same track, it means that Jazz Up is incomplete, otherwise Parkeriana has two versions

Is this correct?

Post Scriptum:

I consulted Simosko and Tepperman's book and it confirms my observation

 

[John L]

2 hours ago, Luciano said:

Ciao, I don't want to be wrong but Parkeriana in the Concert held in Oslo:

Jazz Up JU 307 has a duration of approximately 2:29

Landascape LS2-919 has a duration of approximately 18:36

So if they are the same track, it means that Jazz Up is incomplete, otherwise Parkeriana has two versions

Is this correct?

 

Luciano - The Jazz Up release is indeed incomplete.  I have it.  Parkeriana cuts out in the middle of Johnny Coles' solo on that CD.   Landscape issues a lot more music from the concert on 2 CDs, including Meditations that is not on Jazz Up.   

Edited November 21 by John L

[Luciano]

On 11/16/2024 at 12:18 PM, romualdo said:

M8359]Add   Charles Mingus

Charles Mingus' Town Hall Concert 1964 : Johnny Coles (tp) Eric Dolphy (as,fl,b-cl) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus (b) Dannie Richmond (d)

Concert "Town Hall", New York, April 4, 1964

	A.T.F.W. [ATFWUSA] [ATFWYOU] (jb p-solo)	Mosaic MD7-253 [CD]
	Sophisticated lady (p & b only)	-
	So long Eric	Charles Mingus JWS005S, OJC 042, CD042-2 [CD],
		Enlightenment (E)EN4CD9173 [CD]
	Praying with Eric [Meditation for a pair of wire cutters]	Charles Mingus JWS005S, OJC 042, CD042-2 [CD],
		Enlightenment (E)EN4CD9173 [CD]
	Peggy's blue skylight	Mosaic MD7-253 [CD]
	Parkeriana (Parts 1 & 2)	-
	Fables of Faubus	-

Note:

Both titles from Charles Mingus JWS005S also on America (F)30AM6140, Bellaphon (G)BLPS19051, Debut (Jap)LP88018, SMJ-6289, Fantasy (F)68425.98425 [CD], all titled "Charles Mingus - Town Hall Concert". Both titles from Charles Mingus JWS005S also on Fantasy JWS9 titled "Charles Mingus : Town Hall Concert"; with erroneous location as "Tyrone Guthrie Theatre, Minneapolis" - further adding to the confusion is that Charles Mingus JWS009 is on May 13, 1965. Both titles from Charles Mingus JWS005S also on Prestige P24092 titled "Portrait"; see May 13, 1965 for rest of this 2 LP set. All issued titles also on Mosaic MD7-253 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus - The Jazz Workshop Concerts 1964-65"; see following sessions to September 18, 1965 for rest of this 7 CD set.

[M8360]Add   Charles Mingus

Concertgebouw - Amsterdam : Johnny Coles (tp) Eric Dolphy (as,b-cl,fl) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus (b) Dannie Richmond (d)

Concert "Concertgebouw", Amsterdam, The Netherlands, April 10, 1964

	A.T.F.W. [ATFWUSA] [ATFWYOU] (jb solo-p)	Ulysee (F)AROC 50506/07, CD1001 [CD], AROC50608
	Parkeriana [Ow (Dedicated to a genius)]	-                  -
	So long Eric [Don't stay over there too long Eric]	-                  -
	Orange was the color of her dress, then blue silk	-                  -
	Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only)	Ulysse (F)AROC 50608, CD1002 [CD]
	Meditations on a pair of wire cutters	Ulysee (F)AROC 50506/07, CD1002 [CD]
	Fables of Faubus (parts 1 & 2) (cm,dr vcl)	Ulysse (F)AROC 50608, CD1002 [CD]

Note:

"Fables of Faubus" issued in 2 parts. On Ulysse CD1001 [CD] "Ow" has mistakenly been separated into two bands - there's applause in the middle - so what's listed in the credits as band 2 is actually 3, etc. - Source Kevin Whitehead - Cadence Magazine. Ulysse CD1001/CD1002 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus Sextet : Concertgebouw Amsterdam April 10, 1964". All above titles also on Jazz Collectors (Sp)JC429 [CD] titled "Complete Live in Amsterdam"; this is a 2 CD set - the concert appears in exact concert order for the first time on this CD, including nearly 3 minutes of Mingus' solo on "Fables of Faubus" that were absent from every previous CD issue. "Ow! is titled "Parkeriana" on this CD. All titles from Ulysse (F)AROC 50506/507 also on DIW (Jap)DIW-11889. All titles from Ulysse (F)AROC 50608 also on DIW (Jap)DIW-1206, both titled "Concertgebouw - Amsterdam, Volume 2". All above titles also on DIW (Jap)DIW-1188/89, DIW-25023/4/5, DIW-323/4 [CD], Mosaic MD7-253 [CD].

[M8361]Add   Charles Mingus

Live In Oslo 1964 : Johnny Coles (tp) Eric Dolphy (as,b-cl,fl) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus (b,vcl) Dannie Richmond (d,vcl)

Concert, University Aula, Oslo, Norway, April 12, 1964

	Meditations	Landscape LS2-919 [CD]
	Parkeriana [Ow !]	Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD], Landscape LS2-919 [CD],
		Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD]
	Fables of Faubus (cm,dr vcl)	Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD], Landscape LS2-913 [CD]
	Orange was the color of her dress	Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD], Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD],
		Landscape LS2-913 [CD]
	So long Eric	Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD]
	Take the "A" train	-              , Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD]

Note:

The above from a private recording. Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD] titled "Live In Oslo 1964". Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD] = Evro Productions (Du)ITJZ194105 [CD] titled "Live In Oslo 1964". Landscape LS2-913 [CD] titled "Live in Oslo 1964, Vol. I". Landscape LS2-919 [CD] titled "Live in Oslo 1964, Vol. II". All titles from Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD] titled "Orange", also on Polydor (Jap)POCJ-1875 [CD].

[M8362] Add   Charles Mingus

Live In Stockholm 1964 : same pers.

Live "Koncerthuset", Stockholm, Sweden, April 13, 1964

	(Rehearsal)
	So long Eric (take 1)	Royal Jazz (Dan)RJD518 [CD]
	Meditations (false start)	-
	Meditations	-
	So long Eric (take 2)	-
	(Concert)
	Peggy's blue skylight (*)	-
	When Irish eyes are smiling	-
	Fables of Faubus (cm,dr vcl) (*)	-
	Orange was the color of her dress (*)	-

Note:

(*) These three titles also on Bandstand (It)BDCD1524 [CD], (Jap)TKCB-30524 [CD], both titled "Meditations on integration"; see April 14, 1964 for one more title.

[M8363] Add   Charles Mingus

Astral Weeks : same pers.

Live "Old Fellow Palaet's Store Sal", Copenhagen, Denmark, April 14, 1964

	So long Eric (jp out)	HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]
	ATFWUSA [ATFWYOU] (jb solo-p)	Landscape (F)LS2-905 [CD], HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]
	Orange was the color of her dress, then blue silk	Landscape (F)LS2-905 [CD], HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]
	Meditations	Moon (It)MLP016-1, MCD016-2 [CD], Landscape
		(F)LS2-905 [CD], Bandstand (It)BDCD1524 [CD],
		(Jap)TKCB-30524 [CD], HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]
	Ow! (into) (*)	HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]
	Parkeriana (*)	-
	Fables of Faubus (into) (cm,dr vcl,#)	Moon (It)MLP016-1, MCD016-2 [CD], Landscape
		(F)LS2-905 [CD], HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]
	Fables of Faubus (#)	HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]

Note:

Tracks are listed in order as on HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]. The announcements show that the first three items were in that order at the start of the concert. The remaining tunes are not indicated. "Fables of Faubus" is incomplete on Moon (It)MLP016-1. (*) These titles listed as 2 tracks but play as one continuous piece. (#) These titles listed as 2 tracks but play as one continuous piece on HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]. This issue lists the second part of "Fables of Faubus" as "Ysabel's table dance". HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD] titled "Copenhagen 1964"; a 2 CD set.

[M8364] Add   Charles Mingus

same pers

Broadcast, Bremen, Germany, April 16, 1964

	Hope so, Eric (pt 1) [So long Eric]	Ingo (It)10
	Hope so, Eric (pt 2) [So long Eric]	-
	ATFWUSA [ATFWYOU] (jb solo)	Ingo (It)10, Unique Jazz (It)UJ23
	Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only)	-                   -
	Fables of Faubus (pt 1) (cm,dr vcl)	Ingo (It)13
	Fables of Faubus (pt 2) (cm,dr vcl)	-
	Parkeriana [Ow !]	Ingo (It)15
	Meditations	-      , Unique Jazz (It)UJ23

Note:

Ingo (It)10 titled "Hope so Eric, Vol.1". Ingo (It)13 titled "Fables of Faubus, Vol. 2". Ingo (It)15 titled "Parkeriana, Vol. 3". Unique Jazz (It)UJ23 titled "Mingus Sextet live in Europe". All above titles also on Jazz Lips JL774 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus - Complete Bremen Concert"; this is a 2 CD set. All above titles also on Sunnyside SSC1570 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus @ Bremen 1964 & 1975"; a 4 CD set.

[M8365]Add   Charles Mingus

The Great Concert Of Charles Mingus : Johnny Coles (tp-4) Eric Dolphy (as-1,fl-2,b-cl-3) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus (b,vcl) Dannie Richmond (d,vcl)

ORTF Radio Broadcast, Concert "Salle Wagram", Paris, France, April 17, 1964

	So long Eric (parts 1 & 2) (1,4)	America (F)30AM003/4/5, France's Concert
		(F)FC110, FCD110 [CD], Le Jazz (E)CD38 [CD], Jazz
		Hour (Du)JHR73516 [CD], Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	Parkeriana [Ow !] (1)	France's Concert (F)FC110, FCD110 [CD], Bandstand
		(It)BDCD1530 [CD], (Jap)TKCV-70439 [CD], Le Jazz
		(E)CD38 [CD], Jazz Roots (It)CD56047 [CD], Object
		(E)ORO103 [CD], Four Star FS-40070 [CD]
	Peggy's blue skylight (1,*)	France's Concert (F)FC102, FCD102 [CD], Object
		(E)ORO103 [CD], Four Star FS-40070 [CD], Le Jazz
		(E)CD19 [CD]
	Orange was the color of her dress (3,*)	Frances' Concert (F)FC102, Jazz Roots (It)CD56047
		[CD], Jazz Hour (Du)JHR73516 [CD], Le Jazz (E)CD19
		[CD]
	Meditations on integration (2,3,*)	France's Concert (F)FC102, FCD102 [CD], Jazz Roots
		(It)CD56047 [CD], Le Jazz (E)CD19 [CD]
	Fables of Faubus (cm,dr vcl) (3,*)	France's Concert FCD102 [CD], Object (E)ORO103
		[CD], Jazz Hour (Du)JHR73516 [CD], Four Star
		FS-40070 [CD], Le Jazz (E)CD19 [CD]

Note:

Above titles are arranged in probable concert order as listed on the France's Concert releases. "So long Eric" as "Goodbye pork pye hat" on most releases and is edited on America (F)30AM003/4/5. Le Jazz (E)CD19 [CD] titled "Paris 1964". Le Jazz (E)CD38 [CD] titled "Paris 1964, Vol. 2". Object (E)ORO103 [CD] titled "Fables of Faubus". Jazz Hour (Du)JHR73516 [CD] titled "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat". Four Star FS-40070 [CD] titled "Fables of Faubus". Bandstand (It)BDCD1530, (Jap)BDCD1530 [CD], both titled "Parkeriana"; see August 22, 1972 for rest of CD's. France's Concert (F)FC102, FCD102 [CD], both titled "Meditation". France's Concert (F)FC110, FCD110 [CD], both titled "Live in Paris, 1964, Vol. 2"; CD brochure does not list Johnny Coles (tp) on "So long Eric". (*) These titles also on ROIR FCCD2102 [CD] titled "Meditation 1964". All above titles also on Revenge 32002 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus Revenge !"; this CD lists date incorrectly as April 18, 1964. All above France's Concert releases incorrectly list date as April 18, 1964, but list the correct venue. All above titles also on EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD] titled "The Great Jazz Concert of Charles Mingus"; this CD incorrectly lists recording date as April 18, 1964; see following session for rest of this 2 CD set. All above titles also on Jazz Collectors (Sp)JC428 [CD].

[M8366]Add   Charles Mingus

Eric Dolphy (as-1,fl-2,b-cl-3) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus, Dannie Richmond (b,vcl)

Concert "Theatre des Champs-Elysees", Paris, France, April 18, 1964

	A.T.F.W. [Art Tatum Fats Waller]	EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD]
	Introduction and presentation (by Mingus)	America (F)30AM003/4/5, France's Concert (F)FC110,
		FCD110 [CD], Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	So long Eric (1)	EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD]
	Orange was the color of her dress (3)	America (F)30AM003/4/5, Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	Fables of Faubus (parts 1 & 2) (3)	America (F)30AM003/4/5, Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only)	France's Concert (F)FC102, America (F)30AM003/4/5,
		Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	Parkeriana [Ow !] (1)	America (F)30AM003/4/5, Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	Meditations on integration (2,3)	America (F)30AM003/4/5, Accord (F)50007-2 [CD]
	I can't get started (ed-fl,cm only,*)	(unissued)

Note:

Above titles listed in concert order per EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD]. Some releases list date as April 19, 1964 probably because the concert started late in the evening of April 18th and finished in the early morning hours of April 19th. "So long Eric" as "Goodbye pork pie hat" on America (F)30AM003/4/5 is from the April 17, 1964 concert, see there. "Introduction and presentation [by Mingus], is incorrectly listed as being from the April 17, 1964 concert on releases. Mingus introduces "Johnny Coles' trumpet" (not "Johnny Coles, trumpet") having put the trumpet on a chair while Coles was in hospital after collapsing during the April 17th concert. All titles from America (F)30AM003/4/5 also on America (Jap)SL-5027/8/9, Musidisc (Jap)YB7501/2/3MU, Prestige PR34001 (F)68529/30/31, (It)HBT6135. All titles, except (*), also on EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD].

[M8367] Add   Charles Mingus

Mingus In Europe : same pers.

Concert "Stadthalle", Wuppertal, Germany, April 26, 1964

	Fables of Faubus (cm,dr vcl) (3)	Enja (G)3049, (G)3049-2 [CD]
	Startin' (2,cm only)	-         -
	Peggy's blue skylight (1,2)	(G)3077, (G)3077-2 [CD]
	Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only)	-         -     , Jazz Masterworks (It)CJZLP10
	Orange was the color of her dress (3)	-         -     , Jazz Masterworks (It)CJZLP10
	ATFWYOU [ATFWUSA] (jb p-solo) (A)	-         -
	So long Eric	Enja (G)3077-2 [CD]
	Meditations	Enja (G)3049-2 [CD]

Note:

(A) On Enja label as "Goodbye pork pie hat". "Starting" is an improvisation based on "I can't get started". "Peggy's blue skylight" on label as "Charlemagne" and announced as "Charle-Ming". "Fables of Faubus" issued in 2 parts on Enja (G)3049 and equivalents. All titles from Enja (G)3049 also on Polydor (Jap)28MJ-3002, 15MJ-9052, all titled "Mingus in Europe, Vol. 1", and also on Amigo (Swd)AMLP833, Enja (Jap)28MJ-3002. All titles from Enja (G)3077 also on Polydor (Jap)28MJ-3068, 15MJ-9053, all titled "Mingus in Europe, Vol. 2, and also on Enja (Jap)28MJ-3068. All titles from Enja (G)3049-2 [CD] also on Enja (Jap)K30Y-6239 [CD], ENJ-1002 [CD], both titled "Mingus in Europe, Vol. 1". All titles from Enja (G)3077-2 [CD] also on Enja (Jap)K30Y-6240 [CD], ENJ-1006 [CD], both titled "Mingus in Europe, Vol. 2".

[M8368] Add   Charles Mingus

Mingus In Stuttgart : same pers.

SDR Radio Broadcast, Concert "Liederhalle", Stuttgart, April 28, 1964

	ATFWYOU [ATFWUSA] (jb p-solo) (#)	Unique Jazz (It)UJ009
	Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only,#)	-
	Peggy's blue skylight (1)	(It)UJ008
	Orange was the color of her dress (3)(*)	(It)UJ007
	Fables of Faubus (3)(*,#)	(It)UJ009
	So long Eric (1) (*)	(It)UJ007
	Meditations (2,3) (*)	(It)UJ008
	These foolish things (2,cm only) (*)	(It)UJ007

Note:

(*) These titles are edited on Unique Jazz. The fourth tune mistitled "Orange was the color of her hair" on Unique Jazz. (#) These titles also on Mastersong (Aus)502942. Unique Jazz (It)UJ007/8 is a double album & Unique Jazz(It)UJ009 is a single album, all titled "Mingus in Stuttgart, April 28, 1964 concert". All titles from Unique Jazz (It)UJ009 also on Unique Jazz RKO 1038 [CD]. All above titles also on Get Back GET2036 [CD] titled "Stuttgart Meditations".

Luciano, I've added the complete "released" April 1964 live recordings of Mingus/Dolphy, primarily the european tour - extracted from The Lord Discography. Hope this is helpful for you

I think I'm going crazy

Then:

Concertgebouw - Amsterdam : Johnny Coles (tp) Eric Dolphy (as,b-cl,fl) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus (b) Dannie Richmond (d)
     Concert "Concertgebouw", Amsterdam, The Netherlands, April 10, 1964
     A.T.F.W. [ATFWUSA] [ATFWYOU] (jb solo-p)    Ulysee (F)AROC 50506/07, CD1001 [CD], AROC50608
     Parkeriana [Ow (Dedicated to a genius)]          -                  -
     So long Eric [Don't stay over there too long Eric]          -                  -
     Orange was the color of her dress, then blue silk          -                  -
     Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only)    Ulysse (F)AROC 50608, CD1002 [CD]
     Meditations on a pair of wire cutters    Ulysee (F)AROC 50506/07, CD1002 [CD]
     Fables of Faubus (parts 1 & 2) (cm,dr vcl)    Ulysse (F)AROC 50608, CD1002 [CD]
     
Note:    "Fables of Faubus" issued in 2 parts.
On Ulysse CD1001 [CD] "Ow" has mistakenly been separated into two bands - there's applause in the middle - so what's listed in the credits as band 2 is actually 3, etc. - Source Kevin Whitehead - Cadence Magazine. ....

I have the Compact Disc AROC CD 1001 . On the cover are these titles

01-Ow (Dedicated to a genius);
02-So long Eric [Don't stay over there too long Eric];
03-A.T.F.W.U.S.A. (A.T.F.W.Y.O.U.)
04-Orange Was The Color Of Her Dress, Then Blue Silk.

On Ulysse CD1001 [CD] "Ow" has mistakenly been separated into two bands - there's applause in the middle - so what's listed in the credits as band 2 is actually 3, etc. - Source Kevin Whitehead - Cadence Magazine.
If yes and the two tracks are to be joined what is the title: So Long Eric>'

The compact actually contains five tracks

However, I cannot understand:
the second track is certainly a Parker dedication  it starts with a Danny Richmond solo then offers bits from Parker's compositions, the third should be
So Long Eric

Are these two pieces referred to in the following note?:
On Ulysse CD1001 [CD] "Ow" has mistakenly been separated into two bands - there's applause in the middle - so what's listed in the credits as band 2 is actually 3, etc. - Source Kevin Whitehead - Cadence Magazine.
If yes and the two tracks are to be joined together what is the title: So Long Eric

I hope I have been clear

And Thank for the reply at the Jazz UP JU 307

 

 

 

[romualdo]

1 hour ago, Luciano said:

 

I have the Compact Disc AROC CD 1001 . On the cover are these titles

01-Ow (Dedicated to a genius);
02-So long Eric [Don't stay over there too long Eric];
03-A.T.F.W.U.S.A. (A.T.F.W.Y.O.U.)
04-Orange Was The Color Of Her Dress, Then Blue Silk.

The compact actually contains five tracks

However, I cannot understand:
the second track is certainly a Parker dedication  it starts with a Danny Richmond solo then offers bits from Parker's compositions, the third should be
So Long Eric

Are these two pieces referred to in the following note?:
On Ulysse CD1001 [CD] "Ow" has mistakenly been separated into two bands - there's applause in the middle - so what's listed in the credits as band 2 is actually 3, etc. - Source Kevin Whitehead - Cadence Magazine.
If yes and the two tracks are to be joined together what is the title: So Long Eric

I hope I have been clear

Parkeriana (OW!) from this concert is 21:21 in the Mosaic box & at approximately 09:52 Byard's piano solo (with drums) ceases, there is a short lull in the music then Richmond's drum solo commences then around 10:18 a saxophone (tenor) commences. It does sound like Ow! has been cut in half on Ulysse AROC CD 1001 from what you have described. Yes, the third track should be So Long Eric if Ow! has been split into two components.

[Luciano]

Ciao Romualdo,

thanks for your precise information

[Gheorghe]

I don´t know so many details like lengths of tracks and record labels. 

The only thing I know is, that the 3 LP set on the French America label was my second LP anyway, when I was just in my early teens. I allready "had" a Miles Davis album and almost wore it out, until I discovered that legendary Mingus Great Concert in Paris. 

For me it was one of my most important key experiences in my live. What wealth of music, those fantastic changes of tempos and the "further out" parts.....and that hard driving swing on "Parkeriana". 
As I said, I don´t know which length and how many minutes and even seconds it lasts, and what is the cataloge number😄..... but to spead seriously spoken it was THAT album and MINGUS with DOLPHY, Byard, Clifford Jordan, and the wonderful Danny Richmond that made me THINK more about music, to HEAR SOUNDS and start to open my eyes for more advanced Free Jazz and on the other hand to Bird and Bop, about whom I never had heard then at 13, 14 years. 

I just was a milestone in becoming a musician.....

[Luciano]

On 11/23/2024 at 7:17 AM, Gheorghe said:

I don´t know so many details like lengths of tracks and record labels. 

The only thing I know is, that the 3 LP set on the French America label was my second LP anyway, when I was just in my early teens. I allready "had" a Miles Davis album and almost wore it out, until I discovered that legendary Mingus Great Concert in Paris. 

For me it was one of my most important key experiences in my live. What wealth of music, those fantastic changes of tempos and the "further out" parts.....and that hard driving swing on "Parkeriana". 
As I said, I don´t know which length and how many minutes and even seconds it lasts, and what is the cataloge number😄..... but to spead seriously spoken it was THAT album and MINGUS with DOLPHY, Byard, Clifford Jordan, and the wonderful Danny Richmond that made me THINK more about music, to HEAR SOUNDS and start to open my eyes for more advanced Free Jazz and on the other hand to Bird and Bop, about whom I never had heard then at 13, 14 years. 

I just was a milestone in becoming a musician.....

Thanks for your reflections on The great paris concert (3 Long Playings) was also a thrilling moment for me even though I had already discovered Dolphy
 in the volumes At The Five Spot Vol I & II