Luciano Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 Greetings to all the jazz enthusiasts on this site. I would like some information about Charles Mingus's 1964 European Toue with his quintet/sextet including Erico Dolphy. I start by asking for enlightenment about the following editions: The Salle Wagram Concert (Complete Edition) Jazz Collectors - JC 428 The Great Concert Of Eric Dolphy AMERICA RECORDS 30 AM 003/004/005 Revenge! The Legendary Paris Concerts REVENGE! RECORDS 3200 That's it: how many tracks have been released? and in the Published Discs which tracks are the same. In summary, I would like to know which tracks are to be considered and in which edition they are to be found I hope I have made myself clear I thank in advance those who would like to dedicate some time to me Luciano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 You should be able to compare different issues at DISCOGS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 (edited) https://www.discogs.com/master/1133654-Charles-Mingus-Revenge-The-Legendary-Paris-Concerts https://www.discogs.com/master/239126-Charles-Mingus-The-Great-Concert-Of-Charles-Mingus https://www.discogs.com/release/15887968-The-Charles-Mingus-Quintet-Charles-Mingus-Sextet-Eric-Dolphy-The-Salle-Wagram-Concert-Complete-Editisrsltid=AfmBOorTHJUUqrKcsHWEiZGB0-t_V_XVRC4fzggas1Oclvzkwr2BFtMt These links might help, they give tracklists for each release Edited November 13 by mjazzg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luciano Posted Thursday at 02:31 PM Author Report Share Posted Thursday at 02:31 PM 19 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said: Thanks Chuck, I know discogs and I trust it enough only this time I have files, maybe the same but I'm not really sure. Anyway my question must have been unclear. It's difficult to ask it even in Italian, let alone with my poor English. Anyway, thanks again. PS, maybe I have already asked you anyway: if I remember correctly, you used to write on coda and were somehow in contact with my friend Roberto Terlizzi who, I believe, collaborated in the mid 70s with coda 19 hours ago, mjazzg said: Many Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l p Posted Friday at 02:49 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 02:49 AM this is a good reference https://mingus.onttonen.info/1964.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romualdo Posted Friday at 05:51 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 05:51 AM 2 hours ago, l p said: this is a good reference https://mingus.onttonen.info/1964.html thanks for the tip/link unfortunately it hasn' been updated since 2004, omitting the Mingus Mosaic box entries from 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l p Posted Friday at 10:49 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 10:49 AM (edited) on that Mingus Mosaic box, the new 1964 items, with dolphy in the group, are Town Hall Concert April 4, 1964 1-2 Sophisticated Lady 5:49 2-5 Peggy's Blue Skylight 19:13 2-6 Parkerania, Part One 6:38 2-7 Parkerania, Part Two 8:57 2-4 Fables Of Faubus 11:06 another good one is https://adale.org/Discographies/LateED.html the known unissued europe items with dolphy are below, but they may have been issued in the past few years. April 14 Copenhagen Parkeriana 24:48 April 18th (aka 19th) Théâtre des Champs-Elysées, Paris I Can't Get Started fm broadcast 8 minutes and this 2004 verve release is the first to have the real 'so long eric' 22 minutes from April 18th (aka 19th) Théâtre des Champs-Elysées, Paris https://www.discogs.com/release/3874828-Charles-Mingus-The-Great-Concert-Of-Charles-Mingus other releases had an edited version of 'so long eric' from 17th Salle Wagram paris. Edited Saturday at 08:16 AM by l p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luciano Posted Saturday at 10:03 AM Author Report Share Posted Saturday at 10:03 AM Ciao IP Unfortunately, I can't get this right. I have all the records concerning the two concerts held in Paris on 17-19 April (perhaps 19 is an incorrect date) and it seems to me that several tracks are different. I've been comparing them for days, I'm going crazy. Anyway I think I'm starting to understand something Thank you very much for your reply and enjoy listening to your favourite records On 11/13/2024 at 8:03 PM, mjazzg said: https://www.discogs.com/master/1133654-Charles-Mingus-Revenge-The-Legendary-Paris-Concerts https://www.discogs.com/master/239126-Charles-Mingus-The-Great-Concert-Of-Charles-Mingus https://www.discogs.com/release/15887968-The-Charles-Mingus-Quintet-Charles-Mingus-Sextet-Eric-Dolphy-The-Salle-Wagram-Concert-Complete-Editisrsltid=AfmBOorTHJUUqrKcsHWEiZGB0-t_V_XVRC4fzggas1Oclvzkwr2BFtMt These links might help, they give tracklists for each release Many Thanks On 11/15/2024 at 6:51 AM, romualdo said: thanks for the tip/link unfortunately it hasn' been updated since 2004, omitting the Mingus Mosaic box entries from 2012 many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romualdo Posted Saturday at 11:18 AM Report Share Posted Saturday at 11:18 AM M8359]Add Charles Mingus Charles Mingus' Town Hall Concert 1964 : Johnny Coles (tp) Eric Dolphy (as,fl,b-cl) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus (b) Dannie Richmond (d) Concert "Town Hall", New York, April 4, 1964 A.T.F.W. [ATFWUSA] [ATFWYOU] (jb p-solo) Mosaic MD7-253 [CD] Sophisticated lady (p & b only) - So long Eric Charles Mingus JWS005S, OJC 042, CD042-2 [CD], Enlightenment (E)EN4CD9173 [CD] Praying with Eric [Meditation for a pair of wire cutters] Charles Mingus JWS005S, OJC 042, CD042-2 [CD], Enlightenment (E)EN4CD9173 [CD] Peggy's blue skylight Mosaic MD7-253 [CD] Parkeriana (Parts 1 & 2) - Fables of Faubus - Note: Both titles from Charles Mingus JWS005S also on America (F)30AM6140, Bellaphon (G)BLPS19051, Debut (Jap)LP88018, SMJ-6289, Fantasy (F)68425.98425 [CD], all titled "Charles Mingus - Town Hall Concert". Both titles from Charles Mingus JWS005S also on Fantasy JWS9 titled "Charles Mingus : Town Hall Concert"; with erroneous location as "Tyrone Guthrie Theatre, Minneapolis" - further adding to the confusion is that Charles Mingus JWS009 is on May 13, 1965. Both titles from Charles Mingus JWS005S also on Prestige P24092 titled "Portrait"; see May 13, 1965 for rest of this 2 LP set. All issued titles also on Mosaic MD7-253 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus - The Jazz Workshop Concerts 1964-65"; see following sessions to September 18, 1965 for rest of this 7 CD set. [M8360]Add Charles Mingus Concertgebouw - Amsterdam : Johnny Coles (tp) Eric Dolphy (as,b-cl,fl) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus (b) Dannie Richmond (d) Concert "Concertgebouw", Amsterdam, The Netherlands, April 10, 1964 A.T.F.W. [ATFWUSA] [ATFWYOU] (jb solo-p) Ulysee (F)AROC 50506/07, CD1001 [CD], AROC50608 Parkeriana [Ow (Dedicated to a genius)] - - So long Eric [Don't stay over there too long Eric] - - Orange was the color of her dress, then blue silk - - Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only) Ulysse (F)AROC 50608, CD1002 [CD] Meditations on a pair of wire cutters Ulysee (F)AROC 50506/07, CD1002 [CD] Fables of Faubus (parts 1 & 2) (cm,dr vcl) Ulysse (F)AROC 50608, CD1002 [CD] Note: "Fables of Faubus" issued in 2 parts. On Ulysse CD1001 [CD] "Ow" has mistakenly been separated into two bands - there's applause in the middle - so what's listed in the credits as band 2 is actually 3, etc. - Source Kevin Whitehead - Cadence Magazine. Ulysse CD1001/CD1002 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus Sextet : Concertgebouw Amsterdam April 10, 1964". All above titles also on Jazz Collectors (Sp)JC429 [CD] titled "Complete Live in Amsterdam"; this is a 2 CD set - the concert appears in exact concert order for the first time on this CD, including nearly 3 minutes of Mingus' solo on "Fables of Faubus" that were absent from every previous CD issue. "Ow! is titled "Parkeriana" on this CD. All titles from Ulysse (F)AROC 50506/507 also on DIW (Jap)DIW-11889. All titles from Ulysse (F)AROC 50608 also on DIW (Jap)DIW-1206, both titled "Concertgebouw - Amsterdam, Volume 2". All above titles also on DIW (Jap)DIW-1188/89, DIW-25023/4/5, DIW-323/4 [CD], Mosaic MD7-253 [CD]. [M8361]Add Charles Mingus Live In Oslo 1964 : Johnny Coles (tp) Eric Dolphy (as,b-cl,fl) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus (b,vcl) Dannie Richmond (d,vcl) Concert, University Aula, Oslo, Norway, April 12, 1964 Meditations Landscape LS2-919 [CD] Parkeriana [Ow !] Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD], Landscape LS2-919 [CD], Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD] Fables of Faubus (cm,dr vcl) Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD], Landscape LS2-913 [CD] Orange was the color of her dress Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD], Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD], Landscape LS2-913 [CD] So long Eric Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD] Take the "A" train - , Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD] Note: The above from a private recording. Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD] titled "Live In Oslo 1964". Jazz Up (It)JU307 [CD] = Evro Productions (Du)ITJZ194105 [CD] titled "Live In Oslo 1964". Landscape LS2-913 [CD] titled "Live in Oslo 1964, Vol. I". Landscape LS2-919 [CD] titled "Live in Oslo 1964, Vol. II". All titles from Moon (It)MCD078-2 [CD] titled "Orange", also on Polydor (Jap)POCJ-1875 [CD]. [M8362] Add Charles Mingus Live In Stockholm 1964 : same pers. Live "Koncerthuset", Stockholm, Sweden, April 13, 1964 (Rehearsal) So long Eric (take 1) Royal Jazz (Dan)RJD518 [CD] Meditations (false start) - Meditations - So long Eric (take 2) - (Concert) Peggy's blue skylight (*) - When Irish eyes are smiling - Fables of Faubus (cm,dr vcl) (*) - Orange was the color of her dress (*) - Note: (*) These three titles also on Bandstand (It)BDCD1524 [CD], (Jap)TKCB-30524 [CD], both titled "Meditations on integration"; see April 14, 1964 for one more title. [M8363] Add Charles Mingus Astral Weeks : same pers. Live "Old Fellow Palaet's Store Sal", Copenhagen, Denmark, April 14, 1964 So long Eric (jp out) HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD] ATFWUSA [ATFWYOU] (jb solo-p) Landscape (F)LS2-905 [CD], HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD] Orange was the color of her dress, then blue silk Landscape (F)LS2-905 [CD], HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD] Meditations Moon (It)MLP016-1, MCD016-2 [CD], Landscape (F)LS2-905 [CD], Bandstand (It)BDCD1524 [CD], (Jap)TKCB-30524 [CD], HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD] Ow! (into) (*) HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD] Parkeriana (*) - Fables of Faubus (into) (cm,dr vcl,#) Moon (It)MLP016-1, MCD016-2 [CD], Landscape (F)LS2-905 [CD], HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD] Fables of Faubus (#) HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD] Note: Tracks are listed in order as on HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]. The announcements show that the first three items were in that order at the start of the concert. The remaining tunes are not indicated. "Fables of Faubus" is incomplete on Moon (It)MLP016-1. (*) These titles listed as 2 tracks but play as one continuous piece. (#) These titles listed as 2 tracks but play as one continuous piece on HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD]. This issue lists the second part of "Fables of Faubus" as "Ysabel's table dance". HiHat HH2CD3090 [CD] titled "Copenhagen 1964"; a 2 CD set. [M8364] Add Charles Mingus same pers Broadcast, Bremen, Germany, April 16, 1964 Hope so, Eric (pt 1) [So long Eric] Ingo (It)10 Hope so, Eric (pt 2) [So long Eric] - ATFWUSA [ATFWYOU] (jb solo) Ingo (It)10, Unique Jazz (It)UJ23 Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only) - - Fables of Faubus (pt 1) (cm,dr vcl) Ingo (It)13 Fables of Faubus (pt 2) (cm,dr vcl) - Parkeriana [Ow !] Ingo (It)15 Meditations - , Unique Jazz (It)UJ23 Note: Ingo (It)10 titled "Hope so Eric, Vol.1". Ingo (It)13 titled "Fables of Faubus, Vol. 2". Ingo (It)15 titled "Parkeriana, Vol. 3". Unique Jazz (It)UJ23 titled "Mingus Sextet live in Europe". All above titles also on Jazz Lips JL774 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus - Complete Bremen Concert"; this is a 2 CD set. All above titles also on Sunnyside SSC1570 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus @ Bremen 1964 & 1975"; a 4 CD set. [M8365]Add Charles Mingus The Great Concert Of Charles Mingus : Johnny Coles (tp-4) Eric Dolphy (as-1,fl-2,b-cl-3) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus (b,vcl) Dannie Richmond (d,vcl) ORTF Radio Broadcast, Concert "Salle Wagram", Paris, France, April 17, 1964 So long Eric (parts 1 & 2) (1,4) America (F)30AM003/4/5, France's Concert (F)FC110, FCD110 [CD], Le Jazz (E)CD38 [CD], Jazz Hour (Du)JHR73516 [CD], Accord (F)50007-2 [CD] Parkeriana [Ow !] (1) France's Concert (F)FC110, FCD110 [CD], Bandstand (It)BDCD1530 [CD], (Jap)TKCV-70439 [CD], Le Jazz (E)CD38 [CD], Jazz Roots (It)CD56047 [CD], Object (E)ORO103 [CD], Four Star FS-40070 [CD] Peggy's blue skylight (1,*) France's Concert (F)FC102, FCD102 [CD], Object (E)ORO103 [CD], Four Star FS-40070 [CD], Le Jazz (E)CD19 [CD] Orange was the color of her dress (3,*) Frances' Concert (F)FC102, Jazz Roots (It)CD56047 [CD], Jazz Hour (Du)JHR73516 [CD], Le Jazz (E)CD19 [CD] Meditations on integration (2,3,*) France's Concert (F)FC102, FCD102 [CD], Jazz Roots (It)CD56047 [CD], Le Jazz (E)CD19 [CD] Fables of Faubus (cm,dr vcl) (3,*) France's Concert FCD102 [CD], Object (E)ORO103 [CD], Jazz Hour (Du)JHR73516 [CD], Four Star FS-40070 [CD], Le Jazz (E)CD19 [CD] Note: Above titles are arranged in probable concert order as listed on the France's Concert releases. "So long Eric" as "Goodbye pork pye hat" on most releases and is edited on America (F)30AM003/4/5. Le Jazz (E)CD19 [CD] titled "Paris 1964". Le Jazz (E)CD38 [CD] titled "Paris 1964, Vol. 2". Object (E)ORO103 [CD] titled "Fables of Faubus". Jazz Hour (Du)JHR73516 [CD] titled "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat". Four Star FS-40070 [CD] titled "Fables of Faubus". Bandstand (It)BDCD1530, (Jap)BDCD1530 [CD], both titled "Parkeriana"; see August 22, 1972 for rest of CD's. France's Concert (F)FC102, FCD102 [CD], both titled "Meditation". France's Concert (F)FC110, FCD110 [CD], both titled "Live in Paris, 1964, Vol. 2"; CD brochure does not list Johnny Coles (tp) on "So long Eric". (*) These titles also on ROIR FCCD2102 [CD] titled "Meditation 1964". All above titles also on Revenge 32002 [CD] titled "Charles Mingus Revenge !"; this CD lists date incorrectly as April 18, 1964. All above France's Concert releases incorrectly list date as April 18, 1964, but list the correct venue. All above titles also on EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD] titled "The Great Jazz Concert of Charles Mingus"; this CD incorrectly lists recording date as April 18, 1964; see following session for rest of this 2 CD set. All above titles also on Jazz Collectors (Sp)JC428 [CD]. [M8366]Add Charles Mingus Eric Dolphy (as-1,fl-2,b-cl-3) Clifford Jordan (ts) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus, Dannie Richmond (b,vcl) Concert "Theatre des Champs-Elysees", Paris, France, April 18, 1964 A.T.F.W. [Art Tatum Fats Waller] EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD] Introduction and presentation (by Mingus) America (F)30AM003/4/5, France's Concert (F)FC110, FCD110 [CD], Accord (F)50007-2 [CD] So long Eric (1) EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD] Orange was the color of her dress (3) America (F)30AM003/4/5, Accord (F)50007-2 [CD] Fables of Faubus (parts 1 & 2) (3) America (F)30AM003/4/5, Accord (F)50007-2 [CD] Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only) France's Concert (F)FC102, America (F)30AM003/4/5, Accord (F)50007-2 [CD] Parkeriana [Ow !] (1) America (F)30AM003/4/5, Accord (F)50007-2 [CD] Meditations on integration (2,3) America (F)30AM003/4/5, Accord (F)50007-2 [CD] I can't get started (ed-fl,cm only,*) (unissued) Note: Above titles listed in concert order per EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD]. Some releases list date as April 19, 1964 probably because the concert started late in the evening of April 18th and finished in the early morning hours of April 19th. "So long Eric" as "Goodbye pork pie hat" on America (F)30AM003/4/5 is from the April 17, 1964 concert, see there. "Introduction and presentation [by Mingus], is incorrectly listed as being from the April 17, 1964 concert on releases. Mingus introduces "Johnny Coles' trumpet" (not "Johnny Coles, trumpet") having put the trumpet on a chair while Coles was in hospital after collapsing during the April 17th concert. All titles from America (F)30AM003/4/5 also on America (Jap)SL-5027/8/9, Musidisc (Jap)YB7501/2/3MU, Prestige PR34001 (F)68529/30/31, (It)HBT6135. All titles, except (*), also on EmArcy (F)980691-3 [CD]. [M8367] Add Charles Mingus Mingus In Europe : same pers. Concert "Stadthalle", Wuppertal, Germany, April 26, 1964 Fables of Faubus (cm,dr vcl) (3) Enja (G)3049, (G)3049-2 [CD] Startin' (2,cm only) - - Peggy's blue skylight (1,2) (G)3077, (G)3077-2 [CD] Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only) - - , Jazz Masterworks (It)CJZLP10 Orange was the color of her dress (3) - - , Jazz Masterworks (It)CJZLP10 ATFWYOU [ATFWUSA] (jb p-solo) (A) - - So long Eric Enja (G)3077-2 [CD] Meditations Enja (G)3049-2 [CD] Note: (A) On Enja label as "Goodbye pork pie hat". "Starting" is an improvisation based on "I can't get started". "Peggy's blue skylight" on label as "Charlemagne" and announced as "Charle-Ming". "Fables of Faubus" issued in 2 parts on Enja (G)3049 and equivalents. All titles from Enja (G)3049 also on Polydor (Jap)28MJ-3002, 15MJ-9052, all titled "Mingus in Europe, Vol. 1", and also on Amigo (Swd)AMLP833, Enja (Jap)28MJ-3002. All titles from Enja (G)3077 also on Polydor (Jap)28MJ-3068, 15MJ-9053, all titled "Mingus in Europe, Vol. 2, and also on Enja (Jap)28MJ-3068. All titles from Enja (G)3049-2 [CD] also on Enja (Jap)K30Y-6239 [CD], ENJ-1002 [CD], both titled "Mingus in Europe, Vol. 1". All titles from Enja (G)3077-2 [CD] also on Enja (Jap)K30Y-6240 [CD], ENJ-1006 [CD], both titled "Mingus in Europe, Vol. 2". [M8368] Add Charles Mingus Mingus In Stuttgart : same pers. SDR Radio Broadcast, Concert "Liederhalle", Stuttgart, April 28, 1964 ATFWYOU [ATFWUSA] (jb p-solo) (#) Unique Jazz (It)UJ009 Sophisticated lady (jb,cm only,#) - Peggy's blue skylight (1) (It)UJ008 Orange was the color of her dress (3)(*) (It)UJ007 Fables of Faubus (3)(*,#) (It)UJ009 So long Eric (1) (*) (It)UJ007 Meditations (2,3) (*) (It)UJ008 These foolish things (2,cm only) (*) (It)UJ007 Note: (*) These titles are edited on Unique Jazz. The fourth tune mistitled "Orange was the color of her hair" on Unique Jazz. (#) These titles also on Mastersong (Aus)502942. Unique Jazz (It)UJ007/8 is a double album & Unique Jazz(It)UJ009 is a single album, all titled "Mingus in Stuttgart, April 28, 1964 concert". All titles from Unique Jazz (It)UJ009 also on Unique Jazz RKO 1038 [CD]. All above titles also on Get Back GET2036 [CD] titled "Stuttgart Meditations". 1 hour ago, Luciano said: Ciao IP Unfortunately, I can't get this right. I have all the records concerning the two concerts held in Paris on 17-19 April (perhaps 19 is an incorrect date) and it seems to me that several tracks are different. I've been comparing them for days, I'm going crazy. Anyway I think I'm starting to understand something Thank you very much for your reply and enjoy listening to your favourite records Many Thanks many thanks Luciano, I've added the complete "released" April 1964 live recordings of Mingus/Dolphy, primarily the european tour - extracted from The Lord Discography. Hope this is helpful for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romualdo Posted Saturday at 11:46 AM Report Share Posted Saturday at 11:46 AM There's also the Jazz Icons DVD (2007, Reelin' In The Years) "Charles Mingus - Live In '64" - stunning vision (& sound) of the touring band in Belgium (April 19 - no LP/CD release AFAIK), Norway (April 12) & Sweden (April 13) from this tour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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