Emily Remler

[Brad]

This article was written several years ago and apparently has been updated. It’s worth a read if you’ve never read it.

The Rise and Decline of Emily Remler

[Stompin at the Savoy]

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

Her struggle with addiction was basically common knowledge before she died, and definitely was after. So it's not like tales are being told out of school.

What bothers me is the assumption wrapped up, and the meanness of 'i guess she was screwing up because she was on drugs'. I listened to one of the singled out tracks and thought she was playing well, not screwing up.  if you play guitar listen to the Cisco sample track and tell me she doesn't have chops aplenty

 

Edited Wednesday at 05:42 AM by Stompin at the Savoy

[JSngry]

I never listened to her much, ever. Just not a vibe I really felt, too Concord-y for me. So I have no interest in arbitrating this dispute.

Just saying that her addiction was no secret. That's a terrible thing. But if her playing seems dulled, well hey. Addiction can indeed dull one's reflexes and senses.

[soulpope]

Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses ....

[blacksaint]

16 minutes ago, soulpope said:

Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses ....

Yes indeed👍👍👍

[bertrand]

Catwalk is one of the best records ever made for Concord. It is a masterpiece, IMHO.

[soulpope]

18 minutes ago, bertrand said:

Catwalk is one of the best records ever made for Concord. It is a masterpiece, IMHO.

She blends nicely with Eddie Gomez .... 

[Pim]

15 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

so you are keeping a chart? I am not a big fan of Peterson, Adams or Henderson; not sure what I might have said about Shorter or Hubbard (except I prefer Shorter's work with Miles to the dates under his own name; I am less enamored of his composing than many others are, though I think he was one of the greatest tenor players ever). Hubbard is great, leaves me cold sometimes. Am I offended that you like players I don't? No, I'm not, so you shouldn't be offended by the opposite.

As for repetition, there is a difference between an approach that uses these phrases as a technique, per Waldron (and Monk). It is just clear to me in a lot of theses performances that she is straining, going on habit. As I said, I suspect it has to do with substance abuse.

But once again I point out the silliness of people feeling offended by my disliking musicians that they like (and I am not talking about Pim). Have I ever accused anyone here of having an ulterior motive for liking O.P. (whose playing really offends me)? No. But I have been attacked here more than once for having an opinion that differs from  the prevailing opinion. And it's tiresome.

I welcome discussion and argument, but some of the prior implications here (in other, older threads) are out of line.

Haha no of course I am not keeping a chart Allen. These were remarks in my memory and then all one has to do is use the search button to confirm what you seem to have remembered. I am not offended at all and everyone is entitled to his opinion. It's just that you (almost) always seem to talk from a negative basic attitude. And even when you say something nice it's usually followed by yet another negative remark (Shorter and Hubbard were examples of that). On musicians, writers etc. When I read another post like that I can't help to think: oh God here we go again.... There are also some users here that are more spreading all the joy they have from their music which is more enjoyable to read but also something I learn more from. I am not pleading for positive remarks only here, music should be debated thats part of the fun, but for me positive reinforcement is a lot more powerful than tearing everyone down. This is solely my opinion and of course you shouldn't feel offended by that as well. And of course people should never make it personal with you but I must say that some of your posts are quite harsh and could sound pretty disrespectful. That might of course evoke strong reactions.

The point I was trying to make anyhow was that as a musician you might be more sensitive to the whole technical approach where I probably don't hear it the same way as you. For example I am not sure were speaking about the same version of Bird's Lover Man but I love that tune by him and don't hear anyhting wrong. Maybe Emily wasn't such a great player, maybe she was I couldn't say but apparently her music makes a lot of us happy so I really can't care if she uses the same lick twice a minute or play a b where it should have been a c minor. I generally don't like that approach to music. To me it's mostly that either you like it or you don't.

 

Edited Wednesday at 02:43 PM by Pim

[mjzee]

"You don't have to lie to me,

just give me some tenderness

beneath your honesty."

- Paul Simon

[Peter Friedman]

8 hours ago, JSngry said:

I never listened to her much, ever. Just not a vibe I really felt, too Concord-y for me. So I have no interest in arbitrating this dispute.

Just saying that her addiction was no secret. That's a terrible thing. But if her playing seems dulled, well hey. Addiction can indeed dull one's reflexes and senses.

Would be interested to have you explain what you mean by" too Concord-y for me?

Also, does that imply that you don't like any of the numerous recordings made on the Concord label over many decades? 

[Brad]

3 minutes ago, Peter Friedman said:

Would be interested to have you explain what you mean by" too Concord-y for me?

Also, does that imply that you don't like any of the numerous recordings made on the Concord label over many decades? 

I too am curious what that means. Last year I picked up three records made by Richie Kamuca for Concord and they were darn good. 

[soulpope]

48 minutes ago, mjzee said:

"You don't have to lie to me,

just give me some tenderness

beneath your honesty."

- Paul Simon

Indeed ....

[jlhoots]

It's all just opinions.

Like what you like, ignore what you don't. 😎

Edited Wednesday at 03:45 PM by jlhoots

[AllenLowe]

14 hours ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

I don't really know Remmler's work that well but I have listened to her and watched  some videos.  As a guitar player myself, I see her as having very good control of lots of basic technical stuff; pretty good chops and good time.  That's my opinion which anyone can agree or disagree with - neither is a problem for me.  Same with Lowe, who knows more about music than I do: I kind of disagree with him about Remmler but he has every right to his own opinion.  The part I don't get: why trash her publicly?  Is there something good or helpful about that?  Trashing her and blaming it on her drug use adds insult to injury.

edit: I just listened to the sample at Bandcamp called "Cisco".  It's a slow intro followed by Black Orpheus.  I liked it.  Were there a few flubs?  Possibly.  I was looking for them but nothing really stood out to me.  She has a very nice technical ability to play complicated ascending and descending figures and carry them out all the way - fingering on guitar is difficult.  Lowe is nit-picking!

I did not trash her; I simply pointed out problems I had with her playing. There is a contradiction in your opinion  - I have a right to my opinion but I am "trashing" her - the implication is the opposite of what you claim. Sure, free speech, but why? Some of us apparently, per Orwell, have more free speech than others.

Edited Wednesday at 03:50 PM by AllenLowe

[Stompin at the Savoy]

1 hour ago, AllenLowe said:

I did not trash her; I simply pointed out problems I had with her playing. There is a contradiction in your opinion  - I have a right to my opinion but I am "trashing" her - the implication is the opposite of what you claim. Sure, free speech, but why? Some of us apparently, per Orwell, have more free speech than others.

Knowing something and having opinions is intelligent. Knowing when not to blurt out what you are thinking is wise. The fact that numerous people have to make this point to you should prompt some reflection.  You are a well-known musician and historian; it's unbecoming and small of you to go around pedantically pointing out Emily Remmler's 'wrong notes' and snarking that they must be because she was using.

As far as free speech  goes, you are falling into the trap occupied by so many right wing nincompoops: Free speech is not the same thing as speech without consequences or pushback.  You can say whatever you please; that does not immunize you from criticism of what you say.

Edited Wednesday at 04:56 PM by Stompin at the Savoy

[soulpope]

11 minutes ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

Knowing something and having opinions is intelligent. Knowing when not to blurt out what you are thinking is wise. The fact that numerous people have to make this point to you should prompt some reflection.  You are a well-known musician and historian; it's unbecoming and small of you to go around pedantically pointing out Emily Remmler's 'wrong notes' and snarking that they must be because she was using.

Touche ....

[blacksaint]

2 minutes ago, soulpope said:

Touche ....

 

[kh1958]

This video features Emily Remler on a European TV show with a group including Barbara Dennerlein and Sonny Fortune.

https://hothousejazz.net/emily-remler-barbara-dennerlein-stormy-weather-blues_447cae123.html

 

[soulpope]

1 minute ago, blacksaint said:

 

Indeed .... 

[jazztrain]

1 hour ago, Brad said:

I too am curious what that means. Last year I picked up three records made by Richie Kamuca for Concord and they were darn good. 

I agree that the Richie Kamuca albums issued by Concord are excellent.  A fine point, but the first of the three, called "Richie", was not recorded for Concord.  It was on Jazzz Records and later re-issued on Concord.

[jlhoots]

1 hour ago, AllenLowe said:

I did not trash her; I simply pointed out problems I had with her playing. There is a contradiction in your opinion  - I have a right to my opinion but I am "trashing" her - the implication is the opposite of what you claim. Sure, free speech, but why? Some of us apparently, per Orwell, have more free speech than others.

We all have a right to our opinions. Not just you, not just me. Which opinion is "better" can be debated, but the debate might not have much "value". I'm not much of a fan of self appointed "influencers".

Edited Wednesday at 05:21 PM by jlhoots

[Stompin at the Savoy]

41 minutes ago, blacksaint said:

 

I really agree with this. In the context of Cisco, one of the tracks he was putting down, she plays like crazy, thousands of notes.  Complex runs that go on and on . She is not holding back, taking big risks attempting ambitious things and she pulls them off cleanly.  To me this dwarfs any minor flubs she may or may not have made.

[JSngry]

Ok, re:Concord...

I don't DISlike their product. But I don't really LIKE most of it either. To me, they managed to somehow make records that seemed to have been run through some kind of flavor remover (per Woody Allen's mother's cooking).

Al Cohn came off a brilliant run on Xanadu. Then he shows up on Concord and the magic is gone.

How did they do it? Hell if I know.

They definitely had their fans but I'm not one of them, then or now 

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, blacksaint said:

 

Sure.But if you play too many of them, nobody will want you on their gig.

This Romanticized emo crap is what's actually inexcusable. Wrong notes and flubs are inevitable, but they in no way are intrinsically ok. That's definitely NOT what Beethoven had in mind. And throwing it up (LOL) to seemingly make an argument that sloppines is ok as long as it's "passionate"... that's bullshit. It's an excuse. All it means is that you need to practice more so you can play cleanly AND with passion.

This is why so many revolutions fail. Righteous passion and sloppy skill.

[felser]

38 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Ok, re:Concord...

I don't DISlike their product. But I don't really LIKE most of it either. To me, they managed to somehow make records that seemed to have been run through some kind of flavor remover (per Woody Allen's mother's cooking).

Al Cohn came off a brilliant run on Xanadu. Then he shows up on Concord and the magic is gone.

How did they do it? Hell if I know.

They definitely had their fans but I'm not one of them, then or now 

Same here.  I've long marveled at the difference in how much more Pablo albums grab me than early Concord albums from the same era with the same caliber of musicians.  A 70's Pablo album at a cheap price is usually an automatic buy for me, where I have learned to usually skip over Concord albums from then (and later), and generally regret it when I make an exception.