Emily Remler

[soulpope]

Finally we learned from a reliable source what Beethoven had in mind .... btw an regarding practicing, why not to start with how to answer a board member's post with respect (a little hint : "bullshit" doesn't help to do so) ....

[JSngry]

I do not respect bullshit.

26 minutes ago, felser said:

Same here.  I've long marveled at the difference in how much more Pablo albums grab me than early Concord albums from the same era with the same caliber of musicians.  A 70's Pablo album at a cheap price is usually an automatic buy for me, where I have learned to usually skip over Concord albums from then (and later), and generally regret it when I make an exception.

The most obvious and delightful exception to the general Concord "vibe" is that Blue Mitchell/Harold Land side.

I like that one a lot, but that's just me.

[felser]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

The most obvious and delightful exception to the general Concord "vibe" is that Blue Mitchell/Harold Land side.

I like that one a lot, but that's just me.

I do too, especially  their take on Kirk Lightsey's "Habiba".  I used that one on a BFT many years ago.  But as you say, out of character album for Concord.

Edited Wednesday at 08:49 PM by felser

[Peter Friedman]

In my opinion there were a large number of very fine recordings from Concord. I won't attempt to list them all, but will point out the Solo Piano at Maybeck series and a couple of outstanding Stan Getz albums.

And as "opinions" are being discussed on this thread, and Allen Lowe shared his view on Wayne Shorter, here is mine.

My favorite Wayne Shorter recordings are in the early 1960's with Art Blakey. I also enjoyed SOME  of his own sessions as leader and as a  sideman up till 1965. I was never enthralled by his playing with Miles (I know that's clear minority view). What came after his period with Miles are almost all not music care for.

To my ears,Miles albums with George Coleman were far more to my taste.

[Dan Gould]

7 minutes ago, Peter Friedman said:

In my opinion there were a large number of very fine recordings from Concord. I won't attempt to list them all, but will point out the Solo Piano at Maybeck series and a couple of outstanding Stan Getz albums.

And as "opinions" are being discussed on this thread, and Allen Lowe shared his view on Wayne Shorter, here is mine.

My favorite Wayne Shorter recordings are in the early 1960's with Art Blakey. I also enjoyed SOME  of his own sessions as leader and as a  sideman up till 1965. I was never enthralled by his playing with Miles (I know that's clear minority view). What came after his period with Miles are almost all not music care for.

To my ears,Miles albums with George Coleman were far more to my taste.

<thumbs up> to the above, and considering that Concord was the home for Ray Brown and then the Gene Harris Quartet, not to mention Scott Hamilton, as far as I am concerned, when I started listening to jazz thru the end of Carl Jefferson's involvement, Concord was a Good Housekeeping seal of approval just as BN was for the 50s and (most of the) 60s.

Edited Wednesday at 08:23 PM by Dan Gould

[felser]

24 minutes ago, Peter Friedman said:

In my opinion there were a large number of very fine recordings from Concord. I won't attempt to list them all, but will point out the Solo Piano at Maybeck series and a couple of outstanding Stan Getz albums.

I will grant you that Concord did good work with Getz.  Find a good backing trio and get out of the way.  I always loved the Maybeck series in theory, but only a few of them in practice (Barron, Hicks, Hanna, Akiyoshi, Brackeen), though there are 6-8 I've never heard.  

[JSngry]

There's a lot of Getz I reach for before the Concords. It seems to me that the recordings do not have the "punch" that the playing itself seems that it does in real life.

[JSngry]

Yeah, no Concord Getz album delivered this level of heat out of the speakers. It's the "flavor remover" effect, I swear.

 

[soulpope]

10 hours ago, Peter Friedman said:

In my opinion there were a large number of very fine recordings from Concord. I won't attempt to list them all, but will point out the Solo Piano at Maybeck series and a couple of outstanding Stan Getz albums.

Fair enough .... btw both Stan Getz albums benefit strongly from the undiluted lyricism of Jim McNeely ....

[Ken Dryden]

16 hours ago, felser said:

I will grant you that Concord did good work with Getz.  Find a good backing trio and get out of the way.  I always loved the Maybeck series in theory, but only a few of them in practice (Barron, Hicks, Hanna, Akiyoshi, Brackeen), though there are 6-8 I've never heard.  

Years ago I was told by a then-Concord publicist that Harold Mabern had recorded a solo set at Maybeck but it didn’t turn out well enough to be released. I have long enjoyed the Maybeck solo and duo CDs and appreciate Joanne Brackeen making the effort to get the label to record her to start them.

I can think of many labels that put out a lot of forgettable recordings that I disposed of but see no benefit of posting about them.

Nearly every musician I have interviewed has pointed out that jazz is about taking chances in improvising, one quoted Art Tatum that there was no such thing as a wrong note if you follow it with the best choice.

[robertoart]

What's the underlying inference in some of these so called 'critical observations' of Remler by Lowe. That Remler was overrated and got where she did because she was a woman? Sounds like the usual, bitter, reverse prejudice shit Lowe has been peddling for the last twenty years, this time turned onto a woman instead. Remler will be remembered and highlighted as a great of her instrument forever and a day. Lowe will be a pimple on the ass of another persons discography, imo of course. 

[tranemonk]

On 1/1/2025 at 1:34 AM, JSngry said:

I never listened to her much, ever. Just not a vibe I really felt, too Concord-y for me. So I have no interest in arbitrating this dispute.

Just saying that her addiction was no secret. That's a terrible thing. But if her playing seems dulled, well hey. Addiction can indeed dull one's reflexes and senses.

What does too Concord-y mean? What kind of record is that?

[mhatta]

I don't know what JSngry meant by it, but I sometimes use an expression similar to "Concord-y" (actually I love this term!). There is some high-quality music on this label, for sure (I have tons of them, btw), but it feels essentially conservative, like music from the past. My friends, who have sharp tongues, used to call them “nursing home jazz”. It's not that avant-garde music is necessarily good, but compared to e.g. Enja and others from the same period, I think it lacked the spirit of trying to do something new. I empahsize that it doesn't directly correlate with the quality of the music, though. I also think that could be said of Emily Remler's music.

Edited Thursday at 03:25 PM by mhatta

[John Tapscott]

19 hours ago, Peter Friedman said:

In my opinion there were a large number of very fine recordings from Concord. I won't attempt to list them all, but will point out the Solo Piano at Maybeck series and a couple of outstanding Stan Getz albums.

And as "opinions" are being discussed on this thread, and Allen Lowe shared his view on Wayne Shorter, here is mine.

My favorite Wayne Shorter recordings are in the early 1960's with Art Blakey. I also enjoyed SOME  of his own sessions as leader and as a  sideman up till 1965. I was never enthralled by his playing with Miles (I know that's clear minority view). What came after his period with Miles are almost all not music care for.

To my ears,Miles albums with George Coleman were far more to my taste.

Agree with all of the above. To my ears, George Coleman is awesome on the recent Davis Europe box set, as good as any tenor playing Davis ever had IMHO (and I'm not overlooking 'Trane who was equal in his own way, even if I don't enjoy his playing quite as much). But man, Coleman was/is a great tenor player. 

And there were many very fine Concord recordings which I enjoy. Concord actually recorded quite a wide variety of jazz musicians and styles.  Though they usually get painted with the "mainstream" brush, they went beyond that.  

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, robertoart said:

What's the underlying inference in some of these so called 'critical observations' of Remler by Lowe. That Remler was overrated and got where she did because she was a woman? Sounds like the usual, bitter, reverse prejudice shit Lowe has been peddling for the last twenty years, this time turned onto a woman instead. Remler will be remembered and highlighted as a great of her instrument forever and a day. Lowe will be a pimple on the ass of another persons discography, imo of course. 

We can do without talking of ass pimples and such, ok?

Keep it between the lines, please.

[Dan Gould]

2 hours ago, robertoart said:

What's the underlying inference in some of these so called 'critical observations' of Remler by Lowe. That Remler was overrated and got where she did because she was a woman? Sounds like the usual, bitter, reverse prejudice shit Lowe has been peddling for the last twenty years, this time turned onto a woman instead. Remler will be remembered and highlighted as a great of her instrument forever and a day. Lowe will be a pimple on the ass of another persons discography, imo of course. 

This is a garbage take.

What you demonstrate is that you hate Allen more than Allen doesn't like Remler.

When you tell us your place in the pantheon, then you can tell us about Allen's ass pimplery. 

[JSngry]

No more ass pimples talk. 

[soulpope]

As long as disqualifying other poster's views as "bullshit" by a "Moderator" is between the lines we are on the safe side .....

[JSngry]

6 minutes ago, soulpope said:

As long as disqualifying other poster's views as "bullshit" by a "Moderator" is between the lines we are on the safe side .....

Yep.

Commenting on an idea is not attacking an individual.

[mjzee]

I understand the talk about a staid Concord sound.  I sometimes heard a Concord disc and it just went through me without leaving an impression.  I'm thinking as an example of a Frank Foster/Frank Wess disc, "Frankly Speaking," that just seemed devoid of personality, which seemed strange given the musicians.  There are label personalities, which probably stem from the owner/producer (as a friend of mine used to say, "fish stink from the head").  This is the standard dig about ECM, and I think it's true: how does an ECM recording somehow make interesting musicians record an uninteresting disc?  It's a mystery even though I think it's true.

It probably stems from the producer.  When Alfred Lion told the musicians "it must schwing," he was putting pressure on them to up their game; recording in the NYC area probably added to that, in a good way.  

I don't see how any of this relates to Emily Remler, though; she put out some fine albums.  Concord was a label that prized guitarists.

[soulpope]

12 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Yep.

Commenting on an idea is not attacking an individual.

If so I'm missing a statement from you towards "blacksaint" that your "bullshit" comment was not ment towards him as poster/forum member .... but I'm sure you will issue this in due course ....

[JSngry]

1 minute ago, soulpope said:

If so I'm missing a statement from you towards "blacksaint" that your "bullshit" comment was not ment towards him as poster/forum member .... but I'm sure you will issue this in due course ....

Why would you think otherwise? 

17 minutes ago, mjzee said:

I understand the talk about a staid Concord sound.  I sometimes heard a Concord disc and it just went through me without leaving an impression.  I'm thinking as an example of a Frank Foster/Frank Wess disc, "Frankly Speaking," that just seemed devoid of personality, which seemed strange given the musicians.  There are label personalities, which probably stem from the owner/producer (as a friend of mine used to say, "fish stink from the head").  This is the standard dig about ECM, and I think it's true: how does an ECM recording somehow make interesting musicians record an uninteresting disc?  It's a mystery even though I think it's true.

It probably stems from the producer.  When Alfred Lion told the musicians "it must schwing," he was putting pressure on them to up their game; recording in the NYC area probably added to that, in a good way.  

I don't see how any of this relates to Emily Remler, though; she put out some fine albums.  Concord was a label that prized guitarists.

That Foster/Wess thing is a perfect example of the Flavor Remover!!! That record actually pissed me off

[bertrand]

Remler's two quartet dates on Concord with D'Earth, Moses and Gomez are hardly MOR. They are quite experimental, IMHO.

Yes, the label tends to run on the conservative side but I would not pigeonhole it as such.

[soulpope]

43 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Why would you think otherwise? 

That's simply a weak whataboutism .... but nothing more to be expected from you obviously .... 

[Peter Friedman]

Yes, I agree that for the most part, Concord was a musically conservative label. The same thing can be said for Arbors and Pablo among others. Don't know why that's a bad thing.

It all depends upon the listeners taste and preferences. Players that recorded many albums for Concord such as Dave McKenna, Scott Hamilton, Ray Brown and Ruby Braff are all favorites of mine, and they have, IMHO some wonderful albums on that label.