Cannonball and Organ ... Why?

[Dan Gould]

It's been brought to my attention that despite his exceptionally soulful playing, and doing so in an era of so much organ-based soul jazz, Cannonball never recorded with an organist.

Thoughts? Observations?  Glad it never happened?

Enquiring minds want to know.

[Teasing the Korean]

1 hour ago, Dan Gould said:

It's been brought to my attention that despite his exceptionally soulful playing, and doing so in an era of so much organ-based soul jazz, Cannonball never recorded with an organist.

Thoughts? Observations?  Glad it never happened?

Enquiring minds want to know.

He recorded with a Wurly. Even better!

[JSngry]

Riverside did not really embrace organ. And Capitol was looking for other angles.

[Ken Dryden]

There were plenty of electric keyboards on his later recordings but no Hammond B3. It was his call, perhaps it had no appeal. 

[Milestones]

I see what you're saying, and it may have been intriguing to hear Cannonball in this setting.

I am personally not that big a fan of the organ, and the stuff I like best is organ-guitar-drums.

Also, did Coltrane or Sonny EVER record with an organist?  Did Wayne Shorter?  Jackie McLean, once or twice with Jimmy Smith.  Joe Henderson, I can't think of anything other than Unity.  

 

 

Edited September 20 by Milestones

[Dan Gould]

@Milestones Henderson appears on Brown Sugar led by Freddie Roach.

[mjazzg]

1 hour ago, Milestones said:

I see what you're saying, and it may have been intriguing to hear Cannonball in this setting.

I am personally not that big a fan of the organ, and the stuff I like best is organ-guitar-drums.

Also, did Coltrane or Sonny EVER record with an organist?  Did Wayne Shorter?  Jackie McLean, once or twice with Jimmy Smith.  Joe Henderson, I can't think of anything other than Unity.  

 

 

Yes but none of those played with the soulful style that Cannonball did which is Dan's original point.

The way Adderley plays would seem to fit well with the organ, not necessarily the case with Coltrane, Rollins, Shorter etc

[Milestones]

Fair enough.

As I said, it would have been interesting.

Not sure If we will get a definitive answer on why it didn't happen.

 

 

 

 

 

[Niko]

to my ears, alto just doesn't go together with organ as well as tenor regarding frequencies, sound, pitch, whatever... regarding Coltrane, he did play with Jimmy Smith in 1955, not recorded, and there's also the group pictured here: 

[Peter Friedman]

Not convinced that alto sax does not fit well with an organ.

Think of all the records that Lou Donaldson made with an organ.

Also Johnny Hodges too.

 

[Dan Gould]

7 minutes ago, Peter Friedman said:

Not convinced that alto sax does not fit well with an organ.

Think of all the records that Lou Donaldson made with an organ.

Also Johnny Hodges too.

 

This.

What really seems rare when I think of it is a trumpet as lead soloist with organ.

[Milestones]

And more recently Oliver Lake, as well as Arthur Blythe on a Rodney Jones record.

Lake's organ quartet prominently features trumpeter Freddie Hendrix.  

Edited September 20 by Milestones

[JSngry]

Sonny Cox

Sonny Stitt

Earl Bostic

Charles Williams

[Teasing the Korean]

21 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

What really seems rare when I think of it is a trumpet as lead soloist with organ.

Muted trumpet playing in unison with an organ is one of Hugo Montenegro's trademark sounds, as heard on the I Dream of Jeannie  theme and More Music from The Man from UNCLE  RCA LP. 

[Niko]

been there, most of those places... Johnny Hodges and Earl Bostic do not sound like modern altoists, do not sound like Cannonball... in Lou Donaldson's case, I'd say the organ really isn't ideal, soundwise... at least in combination with his alto... but from a bebop-tradition point of view, the line is what counts, you could have a harmonica with a gameboy rhythm section and if the phrases match it's pure bop (and no, Charlie Parker never played harmonica over chords provided by a gameboy; and he did have the most amazing sound... didn't play with organs though, or rarely). Stitt I prefer on tenor, especially when there's an organ behind him and I'd guess he plays more tenor on organ records but I don't have the numbers... what made me doubt was, curiously enough, indeed Sonny Cox... that trio sounds just right. imho it's the exception.... same for the Charles Williams group with Don Pullen. Then again: Take Johnny Griffin's Grab This! It's not a record people talk about much, Griffin is not a tenor player people associate with organ... how many organ records with alto can hold up to this comparison? [not many, I say] Most of the classic organ records have tenor, and that happened for a reason.

[JSngry]

James Spaulding, once

 

[ghost of miles]

Stritch plus organ!

 

[JSngry]

 

[Pim]

I’d like to hear it and it might work but I must say that with Cannonball I love those soulful pianists he had in his groups. Especially Wynton Kelly was a match made in heaven