Anthony Braxton and the influence of Eric Dolphy

[Rabshakeh]

I am not sure whether I am the only person to hear it.

I have read a lot about the influence of Marsh and Konitz on Braxton's soloing style, but I am an not sure I have read about any influence of Dolphy. 

To me, it seems quite a clear link between Dolphy's interval hopping and Braxton. This is particularly strong (to my dumb ears) when he is playing other people's tunes. 

I'm interested whether other forum members are of a similar view. Maybe I am wrong (I am not a musician, or particularly knowledgeable). Perhaps he has acknowledged Dolphy or discussed the link and I have just missed it. 

[JSngry]

It's a given imo.

 

[Rabshakeh]

6 minutes ago, JSngry said:

It's a given imo.

 

I think it would be hard to argue with this track in particular.

Do you think that it is just not mentioned because it is taken for granted?

Braxton himself is a chatty man, talks about his influences a lot, and has written widely. I find it strange that he does not mention Dolphy as a major influence when you can hear a track like this.

No Dolphy tribute, for example, among the many tribute albums he has done.

[JSngry]

He talks a lot about the "unexpected" things in life, it seems to me. Or about the expected things in unexpected ways.

For musicians of a certain "mind" Dolphy was/is impossible to ignore.

[clifford_thornton]

Oh yeah, the connection goes without saying. When I interviewed & spent time with Braxton years ago, "Eric" did come up from Mr. Braxton, so it was definitely acknowledged.

[Guy Berger]

5 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

I am not sure whether I am the only person to hear it.

I have read a lot about the influence of Marsh and Konitz on Braxton's soloing style, but I am an not sure I have read about any influence of Dolphy. 

To me, it seems quite a clear link between Dolphy's interval hopping and Braxton. This is particularly strong (to my dumb ears) when he is playing other people's tunes. 

I'm interested whether other forum members are of a similar view. Maybe I am wrong (I am not a musician, or particularly knowledgeable). Perhaps he has acknowledged Dolphy or discussed the link and I have just missed it. 

What others said.  I think the Dolphy influence might be too “obvious” for people to comment on whereas Marsh and Konitz are “surprising” and generates more commentary.

[B. Clugston]

In Forces in Motion, Braxton is asked about this and basically says although he was impressed by Dolphy's work, "I was not as influenced by him as people have thought... So Eric Dolphy's work was very exciting to me, but I never felt that his way was my way."

[medjuck]

Konitz and Braxton played together on Dave Brubeck's "All the Things We Are" Lp.   Did Braxton record with Konitz or Marsh elsewhere? 

[B. Clugston]

51 minutes ago, medjuck said:

Konitz and Braxton played together on Dave Brubeck's "All the Things We Are" Lp.   Did Braxton record with Konitz or Marsh elsewhere? 

Braxton and Konitz did a couple of tracks together at the 1981 Woodstock Jazz Festival with Chick Corea. I believe there was a CD that eventually came out.

 

Braxton sat in with Marsh a few times. I think there is some bootleg documentation out there.

Edited September 10, 2024 by B. Clugston

[Chuck Nessa]

Once when Dave Holland and Barry Altschul were playing in Chicago (I forget if it was a Braxton, Rivers or other gig), I spoke with Dave and Barry about a possible Warne Marsh record. They were both up for the deal, but I could never pull it off.

[Rabshakeh]

7 hours ago, B. Clugston said:

In Forces in Motion, Braxton is asked about this and basically says although he was impressed by Dolphy's work, "I was not as influenced by him as people have thought... So Eric Dolphy's work was very exciting to me, but I never felt that his way was my way."

What was the rest of the quotation? (Or which chapter was it? I can check myself). I don't recall the section.

But I think I had a hunch that he downplayed the Dolphy influence, and it possibly comes from having read that passage (love that book).

Whilst I am a big fan of Braxton, his music and life do come together as a package, with a strong eye towards calculated self-presentation.

That's not a criticism (to paraphrase a partially-remembered Matthew Shipp quotation, all jazz is really professional wrestling). All performing artists do something similar, and jazz is no different (I think that Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis, Paul Desmond, Archie Shepp all in their own very different ways concentrated on keeping up their characters).

But I think that Braxton is perhaps one of the few who goes beyond character, and whose self-presentation includes the use of a network of symbols and personal props (Sun Ra would perhaps be Jazz's most extreme example).

Anyway, personal opinion, hastily formed, is that his comments downplaying a rather clear Dolphy connection, and more particularly his comments playing up the startling but not particularly audible Tristano-ite connection, are part of that same package of self-presentation, just like the pipe, the graphical track titles, the formal modes of address, and the rest.

Edited September 10, 2024 by Rabshakeh