"Losing" an artist...

[DrJ]

Inspired by the recent thread on "hearing" Sonny Clark for the first time.

Anyone who you once thought a lot of who now you really can't much abide?

Easy one for me....Bill Frisell. Sad to say this, 'cause he obviously has talent and is earnest and seems like a hell of a nice guy. But as my musical ear has developed I listen now and just go, "what's all the fuss about?" OK, FX are neato at first and he does some fun stuff, but has anyone ever been a more banal improviser in terms of complete lack of rhythmic and harmonic interest?

I no longer "get" it.

[Rooster_Ties]

Joe Lovano

[DrJ]

That's an interesting one Rooster. I respect your viewpoint there, but can't say I wholly agree...while it's true that sometimes Lovano's own leader dates are overly contrived and postured, generally his playing is the real deal to me. And when you get him involved with someone else's looser, lower profile recording, watch out. Great examples:

Tom Harrell - PASSAGES (Chesky)

Yosuke Yamashita KURDISH DANCE (Antilles - fantastic!)

Any of his work with Paul Motian

For his own recordings, FROM THE SOUL (BN) is a truly remarkable album, perhaps one of the finest larger profile jazz recordings of the era. Ed Blackwell's contributions alone are worth it but Petrucciani is also in peak form. Penguin once gave this a coveted crown and it's worth every jewel in the setting.

RUSH HOUR (BN) is also really strong, nearly as good.

The live 2 CD QUARTETS Vanguard recording on BN is also a good one.

I love all these because for me they harken back to an era when jazz artists with an instantly identifiable sound and a pretty good following who were working on well-regarded labels could also still take some chances, even if ultimately firmly within the mainstream. Kind of like the old "inside out" Lion produced BNs.

Most overrated - LANDMARKS (BN), for some reason everyone loves this but it has to be my least favorite Lovano recording and the lineup, which should have been a smoking one, doesn't come through (Abercrombie's worst recording?).

Edited April 8, 2004 by DrJ

[wesbed]

When I initially heard Marsalis Standard Time, Volume 1, I 'got' Wynton. This was back when the album was a new release. I heard Live at Blues Alley. I thought, "Man, I'm into this guy Wynton." Knozz-Moe-King!

Somewhere soon afterwards... I found myself listening to Freddie Hubbard, Lee Morgan, and Miles Davis. I 'lost' Wynton and have never 'found' him since. To this day I don't miss him. I often wonder what his music is all about. What's his style? Does his have one?

[Jazzmoose]

Lee Ritenour. Stanley Clarke's stuff as a leader. I really should get rid of those discs. But then I personally think that's because my taste developed...

[A Lark Ascending]

In the summer of 1970 I bought my very first LP, one I considered to be the epitome of musical excellence - "Ruby, Don't Take Your Love to Town" by Kenny Rogers and the First Edition (don't even ask how a 14 year old in a Cornish seaside resort took a liking to something so middle American!).

I seem to have 'lost' Kenny by about November of 1970!

Edited April 8, 2004 by Bev Stapleton

[Man with the Golden Arm]

Easy one for me....Bill Frisell. Sad to say this, 'cause he obviously has talent and is earnest and seems like a hell of a nice guy. But as my musical ear has developed I listen now and just go, "what's all the fuss about?" OK, FX are neato at first and he does some fun stuff, but has anyone ever been a more banal improviser in terms of complete lack of rhythmic and harmonic interest?

I no longer "get" it.

I'm very much with DrJ here as well. When Zorn's Naked City started up he struck me as the ultimate geetar god. I started buying his work when 'Look Out For Hope' came about... a fine album there. Then all the fx and tronix started with Horvitz and wound it's way into this Americana thing that everyone was all over. Just don't see that Ive's and Sousa march music doing anything for me especially with Don Byron holding his highest of all intellect and rights to swing (?) over it all. (Thank goodness for Joey Baron keeping all this stuff remotely interesting.)

Frisell now leaves me very cold despite the utter beauty in most of his playing. I culled through much of his musics a ways back and took the lot to the second hand store leaving me with one hellova cdr of this guys works.

(I'll now put Ribot up 'gainst him any day and even handicap Bill by adding Cooder to the bill. More "rhump" shaking in the Cubanos Postisos than the singular Buena Vista Club.)

The clincher for me was hearing the out and out chop job they did to Patton's "The Way I Feel" on the recently released Naked City 'Live at the Knit '89'. Frisell's headlong solo might best be used in an endless loop to drive extremist clerics out from under their mosques. Having said that I will say the best and most interesting work of his must be found by all on the "News For LuLu" sets. Crown worthy stuff that transcends all he's ever done IMO.

Edited April 8, 2004 by Man with the Golden Arm

[Matthew]

I lost Andrew Hill about three years ago. I even had all of his record output but, one day, I just lost any interest I had in him. His music just seems very aimless to me. Maybe I'll get him again, you never know. AND, don't bother to ask, I traded in all my Hill cd/lps, I've kept the Mosaic though, which I still enjoy.

[Dan Gould]

A certain individual who is partial to a particular brand of ties will be visiting you shortly to beat some sense into you

[Matthew]

A certain individual who is partial to a particular brand of ties will be visiting you shortly to beat some sense into you

Thanks for the warning

[catesta]

Jon Faddis was one of the first guys I ever saw perform live, unfortunately after the concert, I lost all interest in ever hearing him again.

[Dr. Rat]

Easy one for me....Bill Frisell. Sad to say this, 'cause he obviously has talent and is earnest and seems like a hell of a nice guy. But as my musical ear has developed I listen now and just go, "what's all the fuss about?" OK, FX are neato at first and he does some fun stuff, but has anyone ever been a more banal improviser in terms of complete lack of rhythmic and harmonic interest?

I no longer "get" it.

I'm very much with DrJ here as well. When Zorn's Naked City started up he struck me as the ultimate geetar god. I started buying his work when 'Look Out For Hope' came about... a fine album there. Then all the fx and tronix started with Horvitz and wound it's way into this Americana thing that everyone was all over. Just don't see that Ive's and Sousa march music doing anything for me especially with Don Byron holding his highest of all intellect and rights to swing (?) over it all. (Thank goodness for Joey Baron keeping all this stuff remotely interesting.)

Frisell now leaves me very cold despite the utter beauty in most of his playing. I culled through much of his musics a ways back and took the lot to the second hand store leaving me with one hellova cdr of this guys works.

(I'll now put Ribot up 'gainst him any day and even handicap Bill by adding Cooder to the bill. More "rhump" shaking in the Cubanos Postisos than the singular Buena Vista Club.)

The clincher for me was hearing the out and out chop job they did to Patton's "The Way I Feel" on the recently released Naked City 'Live at the Knit '89'. Frisell's headlong solo might best be used in an endless loop to drive extremist clerics out from under their mosques. Having said that I will say the best and most interesting work of his must be found by all on the "News For LuLu" sets. Crown worthy stuff that transcends all he's ever done IMO.

Funny how people can disagree about a thing like music!

I doubt Frissell is following a trend with his Americana kick, he's been on it in one form or another for a while: it's one of his touchstones, I figure.

And I think his last couple have been quite interesting: he's actually adopting more of an acoustic texture and some groove into his "large lanscape paintings."

I love most of Ribot's stuff, too, but he does seem to have a tendency toward being a little precious, as if he thinks he's slumming by playing material with rhythm and melody.

(Which accounts for why it's been pretty unhesitatingly embraced by downtown fans: he does seem to be winking. I remember the scandalized reactions some people gave to Byron's Mickey Katz project! A leer is not as good as a wink to a self-consciously hip downtown fan.)

--eric

[Joe G]

Haven't followed Frisell for a while, also Lovano. No fault of their's, I deem. Great musicians, both.

Back in high school, sophomore year, my two favorite bands were Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin. I can still groove to the occasional Zep tune, but I can't stand PF at all. The music is so ponderous, lethargic, and dark.

[Big Al]

Back in high school, sophomore year, my two favorite bands were Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin. I can still groove to the occasional Zep tune, but I can't stand PF at all. The music is so ponderous, lethargic, and dark.

My thoughts exactly! If I hear "Kashmir" or "Money" on the radio one more time.....

[A Lark Ascending]

I 'lost' Frisell in the late 90s after seeing him on a double bill with Kenny Wheeler's Angel Song Band and the Motion trio with Lovano. All the excitement of a packet of frozen peas.

But I've recently 'found' him again on that disc with Dave Holland and Elvin Jones where he sounds great!

I don't think I've ever 'found' Joe Lovano. An eternal mystery to me.

[Big Al]

Dare I say it: the Duke Ellington Orchestra. I heartily acknowledge the accomplishments of Duke and celebrate his rightful place in the pantheon of music, jazz or otherwise. I can never tire of Duke’s piano playing, and in fact prefer him in a small-group session above anything else (the Hodges Back to Back and Side by Side sessions are, for me, the definitive Duke).

But the Orchestra is a different matter. Somewhere along the line of the 100th Anniversary reissues, the music of the Orchestra all started to sound the same. Initial excitement about the latest reissues turned to general apathy once I heard sound clips from each session.

I know Lon’s gonna come after me on this one.

[Rooster_Ties]

Joe Lovano

Thought I would explain this further. It's not that I lost all respect for Lovano. It's just that my interest in him and his particular style of playing has fallen off quite a bit since the early 90's --- especially his leader-dates, but also (to a lesser extent) his sideman appearances too.

And it's not that I don't think he's the real deal -- it's just that his tone and approach have just gotton less and less interesting to me. I'll still pick up OOP dates that he's on as a sideman - and I can't say he's ever totally wrecked a date for me. There's just something about his tone that makes me think he's chewing on his mouthpiece. Hard to explain really.

There's just something about his timing, and use of space (not much use of space, actually) - that bugs me more and more, that's all. Didn't used to, but now I'm only just so interested in getting many more Lovano dates.

Edited April 8, 2004 by Rooster_Ties

[Rooster_Ties]

Oh, and I'm fine with people not wanting to have much to do with Andrew Hill. I was like that for years myself too.

I think I only listened to the Mosaic about 5 times during the first five years I owned it - because it just didn't speak to me. I originally bought it because of all the sidemen that were on it, nearly all of whom I really liked back in '95. And I think I've only gotten "Point of Departure" for about he last year or so.

Hill ain't for everybody, that's for sure.

[BruceH]

I lost Andrew Hill about three years ago. I even had all of his record output but, one day, I just lost any interest I had in him. His music just seems very aimless to me. Maybe I'll get him again, you never know. AND, don't bother to ask, I traded in all my Hill cd/lps, I've kept the Mosaic though, which I still enjoy.

You're keeping the Mosaic you say? Heck, I'd take it off your hands for $50! ( )

I was just talking to a friend about a related, but milder, phenomenon: You don't "lose" some artists, but you don't feel a need to listen to them anymore, either. Particularly rock artists. There are some that I still respect, probably always will, but their music is so deeply engraved on my cortex that there's no need to actually PLAY their albums, and hasn't been for quite some time. The Beatles, for instance. Most Rolling Stones too; early Dylan...all stuff that I still think is GOOD, but there's no reason to play it other than so my kids will know who they were.

I've been at about that point with Miles Davis as well. Davis was my entry-point into jazz, and from about 1979 to 1982 I pretty much listened to him and almost no one alse, jazzwise. Now I find him the least interesting major jazz figure, at least as for as listening goes. Mind you, I still think Kind of Blue is one of the best albums ever recorded (at whatever speed) and still put on Walkin' or something once in a while, but I haven't played him REGULARLY in many, many a moon. But I don't think of it as "losing" Davis so much as putting him on a backburner. Or, better yet, putting him on the upper shelf of my metaphorical bookcase of cultural artifacts. Ya dig?

[Guest akanalog]

john scofield is an artist who i think used to do some very interesting work. i have been enjoying "shinola" a lot recently and also a live show i downloaded online from the mid 80s. actually his work on "star people" by miles davis has been getting a lot of appreciation from me too lately. but his newer albums all sort of blur together and don't really interest me. nothing i haven't heard before.

pat metheny-i thought his early work was interesting (both on gary burton album and on his own) but he got smooth pretty quickly, in my opinion. i guess every now and then he is capable of something interesting still, but he has amassed a large body of work in the 80s and 90s which i generally avoid at all times.

[Jazzmoose]

Well, looking at it from Bruces approach, I rarely listen to Miles or Coltrane any more, but that's because when I first got started in jazz, that's all I had. I've heard them so many times, they just don't leap off the shelf for me any more. Lee Morgan and Hank Mobley are approaching that status as well. But, I'm certainly not getting rid of the stuff; I do need to hear it once a year or so, just to remind myself how good it is...

[medjuck]

I just saw Frissel with his quartet in concert. I loved it but I'm not sure it was jazz, so I can understand someone who was first attracted to him as a jazz artist "losing" him. Though I had a couple of jazz cds with him as a sideman, I first really became a fan when I heard "Good Dog Happy Man".

With Frisell you never know what you're going to get. This was basically the "Good Dog Happy Man" Frissell: Guitar, dobro or steel pedal, stand up bass, drums. He ended the concert with a blistering version of Masters of War, followed by Hard Rain followed by a song of his called "That Was Then" which sounds like a variation of Knockin' on Heaven's Door. His encore was "I'm so Lonsome I Could Cry". Does that sound like a jazz concert?

[Guest akanalog]

i think of albums like "good dog, happy man" more as background music than something to sit down and listen to.

to me it sounds pretty, but it doesn't have depth-this is how i feel about a lot of his recent music...

esoteric covers just seem to increase that feeling for me..sort of surface glossy, but not too deep.

not that anyone listens to phish here, but that is what they did-when they ran out of inspiration (in 1998 in particular), they masked this fact with esoteric covers songs.

[Hardbopjazz]

Jim Hall. I am finding his playing as too simple for my ears.

[Dr. Rat]

I just saw Frissel with his quartet in concert. I loved it but I'm not sure it was jazz, so I can understand someone who was first attracted to him as a jazz artist "losing" him. Though I had a couple of jazz cds with him as a sideman, I first really became a fan when I heard "Good Dog Happy Man".

With Frisell you never know what you're going to get. This was basically the "Good Dog Happy Man" Frissell: Guitar, dobro or steel pedal, stand up bass, drums. He ended the concert with a blistering version of Masters of War, followed by Hard Rain followed by a song of his called "That Was Then" which sounds like a variation of Knockin' on Heaven's Door. His encore was "I'm so Lonsome I Could Cry". Does that sound like a jazz concert?

Well, it could be. I see Frissel today as having another go at the sort of "folk jazz" that Jimmy Giuffre used to talk about.

It's not a direction many people have taken jazz in, so we may wonder at first whether to shut the door on it, but I think it has as much legitimacy as any other fusion (soul jazz, etc.) music we've seen ocer the last 40 years or so.

--eric