Trumpeting Mediocrity

[Guy Berger]

Slate's Fred Kaplan offers a cranky, but not especially unfair assessment of Wynton's career. I haven't heard The Magic Hour.

Guy

[bertrand]

Wynton sucked from day one. Just listen to his atrocious playing on Blakey's Keystone 3 and with the Herbie Hancock Quartet. His interpretations of Monk are abject.

How this clown ever got anywhere in jazz, I'll never know.

Bertrand.

[jazzbo]

Personally, I think that's bullshit. The man can play, he plays better now in my opinion than he did with Blakey and in the Blues Alley days. Just my opinion.

[RDK]

He's a fine player who was probably done more harm than good by his press and publicity. If he wasn't *so* elevated (way beyond his abilitities) I bet we'd all be speaking of him in glowing terms. That said, while I often enjoy his music and appreciate his technique, I have yet to really connect with him on an emotional level.

[JSngry]

If he wasn't *so* elevated (way beyond his abilitities) I bet we'd all be speaking of him in glowing terms.

I doubt that, but I would bet that we'd not be so happy to call him everything but a chil of God.

He doesn't suck. He's like Chuck Mangione - he's "competent". He's just not...relevant.

At least not to the world I live in and the jazz I live with (past, present, and future). He would be more than easy to ignore if he wasn't so "elevated" as you put it, Ray. As it is, he's the most aggrivating kind of irritation - they kind who you would LOVE to ignore and let live in peace in their own parallel universe, but the kind who insists on being seen and heard everywhere all the time (in jazz terms, anyway). Icky-POOH!

I'd love nothing more than for him to shut up and play his horn for those who enjoy hearing him do so. Then we could all live happily ever after.

[Leeway]

He plays a mean Baroque trumpet though. Actually, even his classical recordings, which show considerable technical facility, strike me as ahistorical and rather abstracted.

[.:.impossible]

I heard a live recording on the radio once, I think they said it was from Marciac. Anyway, I was really surprised when the dj said it was Wynton Marsalsis. I really haven't heard enough of his music to give a valid opinion. What I have heard enough of, however, is Wynton running his mouth.

[John Tapscott]

Personally, I think that's bullshit.  The man can play, he plays better now in my opinion than he did with Blakey and in the Blues Alley days.  Just my opinion.

Mine too, for what it's worth. Personally, I've never quite understoood the harsh criticism of Wynton's trumpet playing. Yes, the man can really play. My problem with Wynton is that he goes on and on about the value and nature of "swing" in jazz, then writes and plays a lot of music a lot of music which doesn't really swing. I am hot and cold about his composing. Some of his pieces and CD's I really dig; others not so much. But as far as his trumpet playing goes, thumbs up from me.

[bertrand]

So I was in a bad mood earlier - lots of crap going on in my life.

But I still think that his playing on 'In Walked Bud' from Keystone 3 and 'Well You Needn't' from the Hancock album are really bad - really, really, really bad.

Few jazz musicians have ever struck me as playing that badly. Most of the time, the harshest comment I find to make is that they sound 'lackluster'. For Wynton to strike me as that bad means he's going out of his way.

All of my opinions were formed before I found out he was also a jerk. I would have felt kinda sorry for him had he been a nice guy.

People may certainly continue to enjoy him (apparently, lots do). I will continue to cringe whenever I hear him.

Bertrand.

[.:.impossible]

Bertrand,

Can you pick Wynton's trumpet out of a line-up? I think I probably could, but again, that night on the radio I had it UP! I was truly surprised to hear that it was a Marsalis band.

[RDK]

Signed, an Ornette Coleman (trumpet) fan--

Hey, that's not so bad... I actually really dig Ornette on the violin.

[Jazzmoose]

I really haven't heard enough of his music to give a valid opinion. What I have heard enough of, however, is Wynton running his mouth.

I think quite a few have difficulty hearing his playing over the volume of his mouth. As for me, I picked up a Wynton disc early in my jazz listening, but just didn't connect with it. It didn't sound particularly awful or anything, just didn't move me. Now, after all the Wynton discussions I've heard and read (both "from" and "about"), I really don't think I could give his music a fair chance anyway.

[Dr. Rat]

He plays a mean Baroque trumpet though. Actually, even his classical recordings, which show considerable technical facility, strike me as ahistorical and rather abstracted.

That's a legitimate approach to the classical repertoire, though. The idea that one ought to be "historically oriented" in presentation is relatively recent (as it is in jazz!)

--eric

[JSngry]

I really think he should have gone into "classical" music. That field seems to be a better "fit" for him musically and philosophically.

I mean that w/o any irony or sarcasm. The guy thinks like a "classical" musician/educator, and he plays the shit out of that music in a way that he seldom/never does jazz.

[.:.impossible]

See I've had this conversations with a couple of "no-name" trumpet players and they say that jazz has ruined his classical chops.

I've never heard much of either, so it is difficult to disagree. What do you guys think about this?

[John L]

I heard the Magic Hour for the first time yesterday. I actually liked it a lot more than I thought that I would. It is not the same sort of posturing from Wynton that we are used to on record. "Hey, look what I can do." It comes across as much more relaxed, not anohter effort to take on Wynton's one man burden of perpetuating Ellingtonian levels of blues and swing in contemporary music. It's just a bunch of musicians having what sounds like some fun, not the usual deadly serious and complex Wytonesque arrangements. I think that Wynton plays well on it. No, it ain't Diz, it ain't Lee. So what?

[Dr. Rat]

See I've had this conversations with a couple of "no-name" trumpet players and they say that jazz has ruined his classical chops.

I've never heard much of either, so it is difficult to disagree. What do you guys think about this?

I've talked to a trumpet player who solos both in classical and jazz about this, and from what I've gathered it isn't so much a ruining issue as it is a retraining issue. He talked about extensive and exclusive dedication to either way of playing prior to "big gigs."

--eric

[jazzypaul]

Wynton is hit and miss for me. Black Codes? Hit. His debut? Hit. In This House, On this Morning? Hit. Blood in the Fields, Big Train, All Rise, and much else of his catalog? Miss. His yammering about funk, fusion and hip-hop? Way miss. But, man, his solo on Sister Cheryl...that's solid. His playing on all of his first four or five records, as a matter of fact, is pretty solid, and in some cases, pretty damn well impressive. I can't bring myself to hate him. I can however, bring myself to take him on a case by case basis very easily.

[sheldonm]

I have no doubt that Wynton can play, he's just not playing what I want to hear. I don't think you can really deny that he has the ability but he just doesn't light a fire under me, creatively! I'm no trumpet player or musician as far as that goes, so it's just an opinion!

Mark

[Joe M]

The album begins with a rendition of Ellington's "Feeling of Jazz" that has no feeling, least of all for jazz.

Mr. Kaplan does not know of what he speaks. "The Feeling of Jazz" that Wynton plays is an ORIGINAL composition, not a cover of Ellington's tune. Of course, a critic with some knowledge of the music might pick up on that, but instead it's much easier for them to write about the man, and the hype, than the music itself. Even if you dislike Wynton, and think his playing is a tired cliché, his reviewers are far more guilty of the very things they rip him for doing! Has Mr. Kaplan provided us with any new insights into the music? No. Instead he passes off a superficial discussion of the actual cd for a tired, cliché ridden, been there, done that, "I like to hear the sound of my own prose read aloud" review.

BTW, The Magic Hour seems to be a hit with the listeners of our station - it sure as hell gets a lot more calls and positive feedback from people who want to know "what's this playing right now" than Dave Douglas ever has. I think you can find some things to criticize on this new cd, but I think there's a lot of fine playing on it too. And it's FAR from the worst thing he's ever done, I'd say it's among the best (and I agree that some of his albums are pretty bad!)

[jazzbo]

Here's part of a CNN interview about the cd:

WM: That's right. The last one is titled "All Rise." And it took about six months to write. And this piece is more about the family influences on everything. The musicians on the album are younger musicians that I met when they were 12, 13, 14. And now they're in their early 20s. And the oldest musician on the album is 30 years old.

And it really deals with all the trials and tribulations we've gone through. And it features lot of improvisations, very simple themes that are shot. And I wanted to come up with the type of music that shows how it feels for jazz musicians traveling on the road.

When we have parties and stuff, we just play tunes and we like to play around and clown and really improvise and make the improvisations flower and have a certain type of weight.