Smoke, Jazz Club.

[Niko]

I saw those items but they're labelled as "Entrees" so for me as a foreigner that sounds as if it's not a proper meal... I do agree that the prices are less outrageous than I expected from the posts above... What I do find suspect is +4% if you don't pay cash... But again, that may be cultures clashing....

[T.D.]

That 4% fee for credit card usage has become common at US (at least NY State) restaurants.

The reasoning is that "they're passing on the bank interchange fee" that the credit card companies levy on them. Which is a post-COVID development. Until 2021 or so, merchants generally ate the interchange fees, but more or less subtly made it known that they'd prefer cash. One major exception being gasoline (petrol) stations, which have long offered a "discount" to those paying in cash.

If Smoke's food is good, the menu items that I (vegetarian) would eat are fairly reasonably priced by Manhattan standards. 

Edited August 22 by T.D.

[Brad]

12 hours ago, Ken Dryden said:

I haven’t been to Smoke since the renovation, but their seating capacity can’t be anywhere near what some other clubs have, like Dizzy’s, or had, like the Jazz Standard or Zinno. The sight lines are far better than the uncomfortable, narrow layout of the Blue Note.

You do have a good view of the band. Yes, it’s an expensive place.  This weekend they’re having Kenny Barron. Even with the cost I’d go if I wasn’t recovering from knee surgery.  It’s being live streamed by the way. 

Edited August 22 by Brad

[Ken Dryden]

I rarely view live streams, though I ought to, given the jazz desert where I live.

 

 

[Niko]

12 hours ago, T.D. said:

That 4% fee for credit card usage has become common at US (at least NY State) restaurants.

The reasoning is that "they're passing on the bank interchange fee" that the credit card companies levy on them. Which is a post-COVID development. Until 2021 or so, merchants generally ate the interchange fees, but more or less subtly made it known that they'd prefer cash. One major exception being gasoline (petrol) stations, which have long offered a "discount" to those paying in cash.

If Smoke's food is good, the menu items that I (vegetarian) would eat are fairly reasonably priced by Manhattan standards. 

Thanks for the explanation! I followed it up with wikipedia ("In the United States, the fee averages approximately 2% of transaction value. In the EU, interchange fees are capped to 0.3% of the transaction for credit cards and to 0.2% for debit cards, while there is no cap for corporate cards.") and then it does make sense... Over here, when I read something like this, the subtext would be "hey, let's avoid taxes and split the difference"...  

[Kevin Bresnahan]

17 hours ago, T.D. said:

That 4% fee for credit card usage has become common at US (at least NY State) restaurants.

The reasoning is that "they're passing on the bank interchange fee" that the credit card companies levy on them. Which is a post-COVID development. Until 2021 or so, merchants generally ate the interchange fees, but more or less subtly made it known that they'd prefer cash. One major exception being gasoline (petrol) stations, which have long offered a "discount" to those paying in cash.

If Smoke's food is good, the menu items that I (vegetarian) would eat are fairly reasonably priced by Manhattan standards. 

For the longest time, credit card companies made businesses sign a contract stating that they could not charge their customers that fee. In fact, they used to pull the ability to accept credit cards if a business charged it. I don't know what happened to make these credit card companies change this policy. It will drive their customers to switch to cash, which is not good for them. If they want to keep their credit card customers, they really should reconsider this change.

[Dan Gould]

They are also not supposed to have credit card minimums either but a lot of places do.

The last retail job I had the owner absolutely hated those fees and thought what Amex charged was absolutely insane.

[T.D.]

American Express has always had the highest fees.

For decades (as long as I recall), many merchants have refused to accept Amex because of their fees. I get the impression that's become less common in recent years, but am not sure because I never think about American Express (got an Amex card in the ancient 1980s but pitched it because they charged a high membership fee).

Edited August 23 by T.D.

[Dan Gould]

3 minutes ago, T.D. said:

American Express has always had the highest fees.

For decades (as long as I recall), many merchants have refused to accept Amex because of their fees. I get the impression that's become less common in recent years, but am not sure because I never think about American Express (got an Amex card in the ancient 1980s but pitched it because they charged a high membership fee).

My first c/c was Amex, filled out an application in the student union my final semester as an undergrad. I admit I bought into the PR about Amex, the "image" of Amex users,  but the fact is that a charge card is way better than a true credit card. I knew I had to pay (and still have to pay even if they allow a balance now) the balance off the next month.  Keeps you on the much more straight-and-narrow as a young person starting out.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I never understood why anyone would get an AMEX card. I always called it the "Wimpy card" because it allowed you to pay for a hamburger on Tuesday that you got today.

[Stevie Mclean]

On 8/22/2024 at 4:05 AM, Gheorghe said:

Is it a must you have to eat ? 
And if yes, do they have also vegan food, because if I´d ever go to NY I don´t want to eat Steaks or Barbecue or Cheeseburger, just greens and salad. Let´s say I would try Collard Greens and Black Eyed Peas if that is just vegetable, but not for meat. 
I have the same problems here in Viena sometimes. There is a club they only have sausage or toast (which is with ham or with cheese) and if I play there I always have to order from around the corner from a restaurant where they have vegan....., 

How's the vegan restaurant scene over there? Here in Vancouver it seems like half of all new restaurants are vegan, makes it real easy to spend $. I want to go to Europe sometime but I'm worried it might be hard to find vegan/vegetarian food.

[Niko]

1 hour ago, Stevie Mclean said:

How's the vegan restaurant scene over there? Here in Vancouver it seems like half of all new restaurants are vegan, makes it real easy to spend $. I want to go to Europe sometime but I'm worried it might be hard to find vegan/vegetarian food.

Europe is similar to America in the sense that there's a lot of heterogeneity... I live in a not-so-hip but central part of a big city and have three great vegetarian restaurants in walking distance, one of which is hardcore vegan + gluten-free... finding a restaurant that is not prepared for vegetarian customers would be a challenge but I guess it's possible... if you go to some hipster area in Berlin or so, there might be even more variety of vegan stuff, if you go to the wrong rural place in the middle of nowhere, they will think that bacon and chicken are vegetarian and still put no meal that they would consider vegetarian on the menu... 

to fix ideas, here's the current menu of the Bimhuis

https://www.bimhuis.nl/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/V03-BIMHUIS-EN-Menukaart-Juni-1.pdf

starters are 8 to 14 Euro (which is about the same as Dollar), main courses 17 to 25, and the guiding idea is that there should be one meat, one fish and one vegetarian option available which is quite common in the Netherlands... (and I guess the Miso soup and the curry are vegan while the second vegetarian starter, the halloumi, obviously isn't). At the Bimhuis, there are, of course, no minimum thresholds, the dinner is an option you can add to the concert evening (and then you eat before the concert, in a different room). For me, a concert evening is usual a ticket plus two Orval at 21+5.50+5.50=32 Euro...  

[Gheorghe]

On 8/23/2024 at 6:23 PM, Stevie Mclean said:

How's the vegan restaurant scene over there? Here in Vancouver it seems like half of all new restaurants are vegan, makes it real easy to spend $. I want to go to Europe sometime but I'm worried it might be hard to find vegan/vegetarian food.

You´l find it. Maybe in Eastern European countries in restaurants there is an overweight of meat on the menu, but I manage to get thru. In România where I am mostly I eat boiled cabbage or other thing, but mainly I prefer to not to go to restaurants, on the market I find all I need, and let´s say tomatoes have taste of tomatoes. Green Onions, Eggfruit, all of it. 

If there is a restaurant that does not have veghetarian or vegan food, I order salad and sidedishesh with greens of all kind. And I need a lot of white breat. Usually my menu is all kinds of salats without meat, all kinds of greens, and fresh white bread , we have the best bread in România. 
At chinese restaurants I like buffet and take everything that is not meat or fish.....

Why do I not eat meat ? Because when I was on holiday in the Caraibes and all them fat and sloppily dressed folks eat meat meat meat, they even fry fat ham for breakfast, I had to make my way thru with brokkoli, carrot, potatoes, salads and stuff.

And I had the impression that meat makes me lazy and tired, look, like Miles said once .....horses eat only green shit and can run like mutha.....

So, not eating meat makes me keep slim, look sharp and feel healthy, no full stomach......

There is no ideological or religous credo behind it, I don´t like to get categorizied.....

Yust a perfect album. Donald Byrd was so great those days. Wonderful choice of tunes.

[Stevie Mclean]

11 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

You´l find it. Maybe in Eastern European countries in restaurants there is an overweight of meat on the menu, but I manage to get thru. In România where I am mostly I eat boiled cabbage or other thing, but mainly I prefer to not to go to restaurants, on the market I find all I need, and let´s say tomatoes have taste of tomatoes. Green Onions, Eggfruit, all of it. 

If there is a restaurant that does not have veghetarian or vegan food, I order salad and sidedishesh with greens of all kind. And I need a lot of white breat. Usually my menu is all kinds of salats without meat, all kinds of greens, and fresh white bread , we have the best bread in România. 
At chinese restaurants I like buffet and take everything that is not meat or fish.....

Why do I not eat meat ? Because when I was on holiday in the Caraibes and all them fat and sloppily dressed folks eat meat meat meat, they even fry fat ham for breakfast, I had to make my way thru with brokkoli, carrot, potatoes, salads and stuff.

And I had the impression that meat makes me lazy and tired, look, like Miles said once .....horses eat only green shit and can run like mutha.....

So, not eating meat makes me keep slim, look sharp and feel healthy, no full stomach......

There is no ideological or religous credo behind it, I don´t like to get categorizied.....

Yust a perfect album. Donald Byrd was so great those days. Wonderful choice of tunes.

Interesting quote from miles. What was the context fr him saying that, was he vegetarian?

[Gheorghe]

8 hours ago, Stevie Mclean said:

Interesting quote from miles. What was the context fr him saying that, was he vegetarian?

I think it is from his Autobiography where he wrote, that around the time of the recording of Bitches Brew he had stopped to eat meat and lived very healthy. 

I remember that also in his last decade he ate mostly salad and fish.

[Ken Dryden]

The one thing that people never point out is that it is safer to travel with credit cards than carrying hundreds of dollars in cash in New York City. Payments for cabs can blow through a lot of cash and while certain hotel chains allow cardholders to cash checks, I would rather leave my checkbook at home. I’ve had cab drivers whine about credit card usage, yet many of them fail to realize the advantages, including less cash for them to worry about losing in a robbery and potentially more generous tips from those running low on cash.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

2 hours ago, Ken Dryden said:

The one thing that people never point out is that it is safer to travel with credit cards than carrying hundreds of dollars in cash in New York City. Payments for cabs can blow through a lot of cash and while certain hotel chains allow cardholders to cash checks, I would rather leave my checkbook at home. I’ve had cab drivers whine about credit card usage, yet many of them fail to realize the advantages, including less cash for them to worry about losing in a robbery and potentially more generous tips from those running low on cash.

You seem to miss the obvious reason that cabbies prefer cash. It's pretty much impossible to avoid paying income taxes on a credit card tip.

[Daniel A]

Overe here (partially for reasons that Niko mentioned) credit/debit card or mobile apps are the "standard" menthods of payment and cash the exception. Some shops are "no cash" by policy because it is a hassle and a risk for them to handle it. And luxury shops do not want to be used for money laundering (criminals buying e.g. jewelry for black money). Personally, I don't use cash even once a month.

[Stevie Mclean]

10 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

I think it is from his Autobiography where he wrote, that around the time of the recording of Bitches Brew he had stopped to eat meat and lived very healthy. 

I remember that also in his last decade he ate mostly salad and fish.

Maybe that's why he was so angry!

[Hardbopjazz]

On 8/22/2024 at 7:05 AM, Gheorghe said:

Is it a must you have to eat ? 
And if yes, do they have also vegan food, because if I´d ever go to NY I don´t want to eat Steaks or Barbecue or Cheeseburger, just greens and salad. Let´s say I would try Collard Greens and Black Eyed Peas if that is just vegetable, but not for meat. 
I have the same problems here in Viena sometimes. There is a club they only have sausage or toast (which is with ham or with cheese) and if I play there I always have to order from around the corner from a restaurant where they have vegan....., 

yes. You have to spend a minimum of 30 USD. 

[Gheorghe]

3 hours ago, Hardbopjazz said:

yes. You have to spend a minimum of 30 USD. 

Wouldn´t be a problem for me, if I´d get there and want to hear somebody I admire. 

I wish I would have been there when the "Heads of State", you know Al Foster, Buster Williams and Gary Bartz were playing together. 

Al Foster is my favourite drummer. I heard him many times, but only as a sideman (with Miles, with Sonny Rollins). 

13 hours ago, Stevie Mclean said:

Maybe that's why he was so angry!

Angry ? I´m eating no meat and very seldom a fish (only carp ! that´s the traditional European fish for meal) , and no I am not angry, I´m the most happy person (with Serena). 

And Miles ? I had the impression that from 1981-91 (his year of death) he was much more mellow, he smiled to the audience, was more volubil at interviews or even talk shows, so I think the healthy food and no alcool made him a happier person, but what do I know. Sorry to say I never met him in person though I saw him dozens of times in three decades. 

[mikeweil]

13 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

Al Foster is my favourite drummer. I heard him many times, but only as a sideman (with Miles, with Sonny Rollins). 

I saw him twice here in town as his German tour agent (now retired after severe back surgery) was located here. Always nice quartets with good sidemen. I must admit I liked him even more with his own groups. There is a nice CD with one of the bands I can recommend:

[Stevie Mclean]

13 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

Wouldn´t be a problem for me, if I´d get there and want to hear somebody I admire. 

I wish I would have been there when the "Heads of State", you know Al Foster, Buster Williams and Gary Bartz were playing together. 

Al Foster is my favourite drummer. I heard him many times, but only as a sideman (with Miles, with Sonny Rollins). 

Angry ? I´m eating no meat and very seldom a fish (only carp ! that´s the traditional European fish for meal) , and no I am not angry, I´m the most happy person (with Serena). 

And Miles ? I had the impression that from 1981-91 (his year of death) he was much more mellow, he smiled to the audience, was more volubil at interviews or even talk shows, so I think the healthy food and no alcool made him a happier person, but what do I know. Sorry to say I never met him in person though I saw him dozens of times in three decades. 

I say that with my tongue in my cheek. Making fun of the many reactions that I get in response to being vegetarian in the construction industry. 
I also observe many people to be angry/upset at humanity when coming to veganism from an animal rights perspective. If one views animals as spiritually/morally equal to humans then I can definitely see why they might be upset at the current state of things.

I digress, don't want to derail this thread too much...

[Gheorghe]

9 hours ago, mikeweil said:

I saw him twice here in town as his German tour agent (now retired after severe back surgery) was located here. Always nice quartets with good sidemen. I must admit I liked him even more with his own groups. There is a nice CD with one of the bands I can recommend:

To bad he retired, he was one of my real idols from the first time I saw him with Miles in the 70´s. That drive ! 

And to my surprise I saw later that he also plays acoustic jazz. Well, I saw him with Rollins also. 

9 hours ago, Stevie Mclean said:

I say that with my tongue in my cheek. Making fun of the many reactions that I get in response to being vegetarian in the construction industry. 
I also observe many people to be angry/upset at humanity when coming to veganism from an animal rights perspective. If one views animals as spiritually/morally equal to humans then I can definitely see why they might be upset at the current state of things.

I digress, don't want to derail this thread too much...

Really. Well I don´t know if many folks other than waiters might know or notice that I am vegetarian. And nobody was angry with me. 

In Romania, if I got to swim in the "Aqua-Paradise" you know they have that semi-selfservice restaurant, where you get the meal you wish on the (don´t know how you say for "farfurie" or in german "teller" ) and I always tell them mama-like lookin women who work there that I want the "legume asortate" (mixed vegetables) and they look with a bit of mama-like pity at me since those vegetables are considered only as side dish. And at the soup corner they want to give me soup, but there is no vegetarian soup. So again pityful looks. 
You know, down there it often happens that women around 50 get that mama-like behaviour. Though I am 15 years older I look for them like a youngster, since a real man has a belly , grey hair and eats a lot and drinks wine or beer. But I don´t intend to look like my grandfatha, so maybe the more oldfashioned workman type women don´t really see a "man" in something like me. More a "lost" hippie or so.....

But people becoming upset ????? for what you eat????? It´s hard to understand for me. It´s not them their f......bizness, what YOU eat ! 
Well I don´t have it with spiritually/morally ideas, that´s never was my thing....., I eat vegetables because it keeps me young and handsome and quick and slim and to think clear.