Jazz Snobs

[nemo7]

Have you ever encountered "Jazz Snobs" who show and tell you what they show and say what they listen to, yet, they don't hear the music?

[Brad]

Are you referring to someone in particular?

[danasgoodstuff]

Yes, or maybe they do hear it and the're just very bad at telling you.  but it certainly seems like for jazz and everything else that there are some who claim to get it who really don't.

[Rooster_Ties]

I’ve encountered a few audiophiles who don’t seem to get the music, for being obsessed with ever more elaborate “perfect sound” reissues, and elaborate rigs to play them on.

Me and them seem to barely have a thing in common, even about the albums we all owned in common. Holding a conversation with them seemed to always take (me) an inordinate amount of effort, and always wore me out too, as I recall.

A couple were annoying as hell, but even the well-meaning ones seemed to be on another planet from my vantage point about the music.

Not claiming my knowledge or perspective is superior to all — far from it!! But I will say it was always disconcerting to be talking past each other in our interactions.

[JSngry]

Maybe there's nothing to get.

[John L]

I wouldn't call people jazz snobs because they like to listen to and discuss jazz, but don't always hear everything going on in the music.  Maybe one of the reasons why these people like to discuss jazz is because they want information that would enable them to hear more?  (I can speak for myself  )

My idea of a typical "jazz snob" is somebody who sticks their nose up at other kinds of blues-rooted music as being inferior.  

Edited July 10 by John L

[Rabshakeh]

I do think there's something in the idea. Something of the competing high / low status of jazz and the fact that it has always had a stats-y appeal. 

Generally if I meet a metal fan or folk fan, I know I have something in common with that person. Not necessarily the case with jazz at all, and that is a real quirk of the genre.

[Stompin at the Savoy]

Actually jazz only recently has acquired an intellectual sheen of sophistication and subtlety.  For much of its existence it was considered a low form of music. 

I don't really understand the original post.  Seemingly it is talking about jazz phoneys who talk all sorts of technical stuff but have little feel for the music.  Hopefully I don't fall into that category but I will admit to being a bit of a jazz snob.  I do tend to secretly (and sometimes not that secretly) look down on a lot of 3 chord pop music.  Well, it seems so formulaic, obvious and shallow.  Harmonically, rhythmically, quality of solos, compositions, etc.  That doesn't mean I hate everything except jazz but if you press me I will allow that I can't see why people would listen to most rock music  and bubble gum when they could listen to Basie. 

Edited July 10 by Stompin at the Savoy

[clifford_thornton]

Adjacent are collectors who don't seem to know or care to know anything about the music and its context.

[JSngry]

Music is a lifestyle accessory for many people.  There's a lot of subjective "it"s that somebody can or cannot "get".

The only ones that are objective are social histories and musical maths. And not everybody wants to be bothered with that.

Accessorizing is an external end.

 

[clifford_thornton]

For sure.

[Teasing the Korean]

All of us hear different things, and have different experiences, different ears, and different levels of musical training.  I'm sure I pick up on some things that others may not, and vice versa, but we can all drive ourselves crazy wondering what others do or don't hear. So if, at the end of the day, a tone-deaf person gets some sort of enjoyment or fulfillment listening to jazz, what of it?  

[jlhoots]

Some say that "snobs" keep the standards up.

[JSngry]

They certainly like to think they do, for sure!

[JSngry]

Seriously, if you have your own standards and know why you have them, there's no need to be "snobbish" about anybody else's.

Except about things that are objectively true, No room for foaminess there.

But there's not as much of that as you might think. A conclusion drawn from an objective truth is often enough a projection of a personal wish as it is the end of the fact under consideration.

Words lie "is", "isn't", "are", aren't", etc. those are words that come with a high responsibility, a responsibility that "is" too often abdicated in the pursuit of cheap immediate gratifications.

And don't get me started on using adjectives and nouns interchangeably...

[Hoppy T. Frog]

I'm a jazz slob. 

 

Ok, just a slob. 

[Ken Dryden]

Jazz snobs can include the type of jazz fan, including journalists and broadcasters, who makes outrageous statements like one I heard when I was in charge of compiling member nominations for the annual Jazz Journalist Association Awards. A name you would know, both as a broadcaster and writer, made a statement like, "I don't see how anyone could omit (name omitted) from their nominations for (instrument omitted). My response in the thread was that not everyone is serviced with all the music as other members and if I recall correctly, the poster mentioned an artist who was based in his city. Needless to say, I had never received a single CD by the artist in question (and still haven't to this day with 36 years as a jazz journalist), even though I had been in both jazz radio and journalism for some 12 to 15 years at that point. Not to mention it is impossible to keep up with every artist's output, given the volume of promo CDs and purchases. I rarely if ever bother to sample download or streaming links.

[JSngry]

Do you ever buy anything out of curiosity?

[clifford_thornton]

oh yeah, there's a massive amount of music out there, and it often takes time to really get more than passing acquaintance with a lot of it.

I'd say that this board has helped me become more egalitarian in my approach to the music. If we're talking denominations, traditional jazz, swing, "cool" jazz, and fusion to me are on par with bop and the avant-garde. 

[medjuck]

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

Do you ever buy anything out of curiosity?

Too often. 

[JSngry]

Some of us have to!

[Ken Dryden]

4 hours ago, JSngry said:

Do you ever buy anything out of curiosity?

I do, but not when I am unfamiliar with the artist, with any of the supporting cast and it is all originals. I don't even know how much I spend on music in a year, though I could probably get a good estimate if I put some effort to it. I might underestimate it a bit.

I remember all the hype about Darcy James Argue. I got a couple of his CDs, didn't care for them and disposed of them. A couple of years ago, I bought two of his CDs, thinking I may have been hasty in my judgement. I listened to them and ended up getting rid of them, his music just doesn't appeal to me. 

 

 

[JSngry]

15 minutes ago, Ken Dryden said:

I do, but not when I am unfamiliar with the artist, with any of the supporting cast and it is all originals. 

I guess we have different definitions of "curiosity", but oh well...

I will say, though, that Bandcamp has been a godsend in that regard. Trying before buying has never been easier, and that definitely saves money!

[Ken Dryden]

12 hours ago, JSngry said:

I guess we have different definitions of "curiosity", but oh well...

I will say, though, that Bandcamp has been a godsend in that regard. Trying before buying has never been easier, and that definitely saves money!

Frankly, there are so many unheard CDs (I am guessing 1200-1500 at a minimum) in my library and a long want list of out of print or import titles that I'm seeking, I just don't have the desire to start listening to samples of artists getting some hype, thinking that I might want to add them to my want list.

[clifford_thornton]

It's impossible to hear even a tiny fraction of what music exists on the planet.

I buy a lot of things unheard/unseen/unfamiliar, but usually one has some parameters within which to work. Does the format of the band or tunes interest me? Track lengths? If it's an LP, what does the cover art look like?

Not everything is gonna be one's cuppa, either. I saw Argue's Secret Society a couple of times. I appreciated what he was/they were working on but did not buy the CDs.