Question about Eric Dolphy -

[AllenLowe]

The story as it is told is that when Eric Dolphy collapsed in a diabetic coma the doctors made the racist assumption that he was a junkie and so missed the correct treatment, which led to his death.

 

But I have some questions - there have been reports by Dolphy's friends that he ignored diabetic symptoms for quite a while; and that he had a weird lump on his forehead (which can be seen in photos) that was related to this and which he also ignored.

 

So - my question - was Dolphy a diagnosed diabetic when he died? Was he aware of it and was he treating it? If not, how would anyone have known, when he collapsed, that this was his condition? And do we have any documentation of what happened when he collapsed, what the treatment was and what the doctors diagnosed? I ask all of this because too often legends become truth, which is a problem for me; because without knowing any of the above we should not make historical pronouncements or judgements.

[Ken Dryden]

I would have thought that the bump on Eric Dolphy's forehead was either a cyst or fatty tumor, though I am not a doctor. He had it removed (likely with a syringe, as the late photos of him don't seem to show a scar from an incision) before his 1964 tour with Mingus. I read that Dolphy consumed honey, a food to avoid as a diabetic due to its high glucose content and rapid absorption into the bloodstream. It is more likely that he was unaware of his diabetes, but remember that even diagnosed diabetics were not informed as how to control their blood sugar levels with proper diet and exercise back then, as the research and patient education was not at the level that it is today. Even into the 1970s diabetics could have wild swings in their glucose levels, with the results including blindness, heart attack, stroke, loss of limbs due to poor circulation and gangrene from overlooked, untreated foot injuries. One of my uncles who had diabetes lost a leg because he broke a toe and couldn't feel the pain due to his foot neuropathy, he eventually developed gangrene and required an amputation.

It might be a bit much to blame the German doctors for being racist. If a patient arrives unconscious and they are unaware that he is a diabetic, they may have well thought that he had possibly overdosed. I imagine European doctors dealt with their share of overdosed American jazz musicians, both whites and blacks. Medical studies have shown African-Americans have a higher genetic propensity for diabetes, regardless of their weight. I remember an African-American around my age who looked very lean and was a chef and he was distraught when he was diagnosed as diabetic, I saw his obituary a few years later. Diabetes does not prey just on grossly overweight people, it can hit people of all shapes, sizes and races. 

[JSngry]

But why would a doctor just assume that he was an overdosed junkie? Was there no examination at all? And if there was, what led to that specific conclusion?

Lacking any credible statements to the contrary, I have no reason to doubt the first-hand accounts of this incident. It's a loaded accusation, but nobody's come forward with anything to counter it.

The honey use, as mentioned by various sources, was no doubt disastrous. It seems that the medical community was in a relatively primitive level of awareness about diabetes compared to today.

The lump was a "wen": 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3271400/#:~:text=A trichilemmal cyst (also known,skin[1%2C2].

[Dan Gould]

Not to derail the thread but I recently tipped into the "diabetic" A1C from a steady "pre-diabetic" state before. Treating as wake up call to fix diet; a friend had same thing happen a short while before, he made dietary changes and first new measurement afterwards was lowest in years. Hoping to duplicate his results.

[AllenLowe]

13 minutes ago, JSngry said:

But why would a doctor just assume that he was an overdosed junkie? Was there no examination at all? And if there was, what led to that specific conclusion?

Lacking any credible statements to the contrary, I have no reason to doubt the first-hand accounts of this incident. It's a loaded accusation, but nobody's come forward with anything to counter it.

The honey use, as mentioned by various sources, was no doubt disastrous. It seems that the medical community was in a relatively primitive level of awareness about diabetes compared to today.

The lump was a "wen": 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3271400/#:~:text=A trichilemmal cyst (also known,skin[1%2C2].

but there are no "first hand" accounts that I am aware of; or if there are, I would love to see them.

[JSngry]

Who took him to the hospital? Did he get taken to a hospital?

Still shrouded in mystery...and everybody's dead now, not just Dolphy.

[Niko]

There have been some investigations of this over the years, I believe I read more details than in this article somewhere at some point but I forgot

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/kultur/sie-erklarten-ihn-einfach-fur-tot-1167592.html

In German but ir answers a few of the questions (the paragraph starting with "Ende Juni 1964", no time to translate right now). Sounds like it was definitely undiagnosed / unknown to the doctors - but someone must have diagnosed it at some point

[Rabshakeh]

I've always thought that the story of the doctor not treating Dolphy because he assumed he was a drug user who was just overdosing was a bit weird. Doctors don't usually just let drug users sleep off an overdose.

The article makes it sound like Dolphy refused to see a doctor, and later died in hospital where he had been taken after suffering a "circulatory collapse" two days earlier, caused by the undiagnosed diabetes.

As opposed to hypoglycemia or something of that sort that the doctors had failed to treat, as the story usually goes.

Worth adding that Wikipedia presents two versions, one that he fell into a diabetic coma, was diagnosed in hospital, had insulin administered, but died of insulin shock; and then another which matches the often-told story about doctors leaving him to sleep off the overdose.

No very impressive citations for either version, though.

[mikeweil]

1 hour ago, Dan Gould said:

Not to derail the thread but I recently tipped into the "diabetic" A1C from a steady "pre-diabetic" state before. Treating as wake up call to fix diet; a friend had same thing happen a short while before, he made dietary changes and first new measurement afterwards was lowest in years. Hoping to duplicate his results.

You probably will succeed. My wife was on the border to diabetes but she is now in a very low range without medication due to dietary changes. 

[Rabshakeh]

In answer to the original question though, all versions point to the diabetes as being undiagnosed and to Dolphy not only not managing it but also making it much worse with a sugar heavy diet (the article has him eating tubs of ice cream but the honey in the coffee is a common report).

Some versions have the doctors recognising Dolphy as suffering the effects of diabetes and trying to treat it, either too late (because he had already suffered the "circulatory attack" which killed him) or killing him through insulin shock. Other versions have the doctor negligently failing to identify the symptoms of a diabetic coma (assuming it was that, as opposed to the attack) on the assumption that it was a drug overdose.

[ghost of miles]

Re the bump on Dolphy's forehead, here's an account from Zan Stewart's essay for the 1995 Dolphy Prestige box set:

Then there was the remarkable growth on Dolphy's forehead, a benign tumor that had appeared sometime in 1961 and was removed before his death. "Monk told him it was his knowledge bump and he shouldn't have it cut off," says (Hale) Smith, but Eric's mother kept pressuring him, and he finally underwent the procedure for its removal.

... During the trip (to Europe in 1964), Dolphy was reportedly in very bad health. For the last year or so, his diet had been based around honey, and he always carried jars of it with him. After leaving Mingus and staying in Paris for a brief time, Eric, despite being seriously ill, went to Berlin on June 27, 1964 to honor an engagement with a trio led by pianist Karlhans Berger at a new club called the Tangent. He played two sets, and then had to return to his hotel room. Two days later, a doctor diagnosed him as being in a diabetic coma and administered an insulin injection to break the coma. According to Smith, who was told by Dolphy's mother, the dose was a very powerful one, a kind of insulin not then available in the States. It sent Dolphy into insulin shock, and he died on the night of June 29, just nine days past his 36th birthday.

[Rabshakeh]

1 hour ago, Dan Gould said:

Not to derail the thread but I recently tipped into the "diabetic" A1C from a steady "pre-diabetic" state before. Treating as wake up call to fix diet; a friend had same thing happen a short while before, he made dietary changes and first new measurement afterwards was lowest in years. Hoping to duplicate his results.

 

1 minute ago, mikeweil said:

You probably will succeed. My wife was on the border to diabetes but she is now in a very low range without medication due to dietary changes. 

I should add that my dad did exactly this. He dipped from pre diabetic to diabetic, but brought it back through careful work and is not currently either (let's hope it remains that way). 

[ghost of miles]

This is from the opening of Vladimir Simosko's Dolphy biography:

Dolphy was apparently already seriously ill upon his arrival at (the Tangent), and by the evening of the club's opening was able to play only two sets before being forced to leave the bandstand. His condition had worsened the next day, and he repeatedly asked friends to take him home. He died in Berlin on June 29. Joachim Berendt reported in Down Beat that doctors at the Berlin Achenbach Hospital had stated that Dolphy was a diabetic who had too much sugar in his bloodstream, and that he had suffered a circulatory collapse; the medical report from Europe attributed death to a heart attack.

According to Simosko's bio, Dolphy told Joachim Berendt not long before his death that "I'd like to stay in Europe. There is no race trouble. I'll live in Paris."

This topic actually reminds me that there's still a need for a good, thorough Dolphy biography.  Did Brian Morton's work-in-progress ever come out?

Edited June 20 by ghost of miles

[JSngry]

5 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

Re the bump on Dolphy's forehead, here's an account from Zan Stewart's essay for the 1995 Dolphy Prestige box se

... During the trip (to Europe in 1964), Dolphy was reportedly in very bad health. For the last year or so, his diet had been based around honey, and he always carried jars of it with him. After leaving Mingus and staying in Paris for a brief time, Eric, despite being seriously ill, went to Berlin on June 27, 1964 to honor an engagement with a trio led by pianist Karlhans Berger at a new club called the Tangent. He played two sets, and then had to return to his hotel room. Two days later, a doctor diagnosed him as being in a diabetic coma and administered an insulin injection to break the coma. According to Smith, who was told by Dolphy's mother, the dose was a very powerful one, a kind of insulin not then available in the States. It sent Dolphy into insulin shock, and he died on the night of June 29, just nine days past his 36th birthday.

Two days later?

What happened in those two days?

Wondering what the deal was about this "super" ( my word) insulin. Was it's use common at the time?

[Ken Dryden]

My late father in law had diabetes and didn’t know it, then had a heart attack and didn’t know it. He developed a blood clot that caused him great pain in a leg and he never came out of a coma after surgery. This happened in the 1990s so it doesn’t surprise me that anyone would be unaware of a major medical issue back in 1964.

[JSngry]

11 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

This is from the opening of Vladimir Simosko's Dolphy biography:

Dolphy was apparently already seriously ill upon his arrival at (the Tangent), and by the evening of the club's opening was able to play only two sets before being forced to leave the bandstand. His condition had worsened the next day, and he repeatedly asked friends to take him home. He died in Berlin on June 29. Joachim Berendt reported in Down Beat that doctors at the Berlin Achenbach Hospital had stated that Dolphy was a diabetic who had too much sugar in his bloodstream, and that he had suffered a circulatory collapse; the medical report from Europe attributed death to a heart attack.

According to Simosko's bio, Dolphy told Joachim Berendt not long before his death that "I'd like to stay in Europe. There is no race trouble. I'll live in Paris."

This topic actually reminds me that there's still a need for a good, thorough Dolphy biography.  Did Brian Morton's work-in-progress ever come out?

So he went to his place and stayed alone for two days? Who finally discovered him there?

[clifford_thornton]

Karl Berger has said that he and Ingrid were with him at the hospital where he died. Berger has repeated the "junkie" story and if he was there, it must have a kernel of truth. My understanding is that they at first didn't realize what was going on and by the time they figured it out, it was too late.

Prince Lasha told me that Dolphy was drinking watered down honey constantly. 

[Onxidlib]

Maybe you would like to watch the only documentary about ED which is available on youtube. In this Dutch production from 1991 titled Eric Dolphy - Last Date some insight is given - not at least by a male nurse who was in charge when Dolphy was delivered into the hospital.  He actually didn't want to go to the hospital. But see for yourself.

[Ken Dryden]

38 minutes ago, Onxidlib said:

Maybe you would like to watch the only documentary about ED which is available on youtube. In this Dutch production from 1991 titled Eric Dolphy - Last Date some insight is given - not at least by a male nurse who was in charge when Dolphy was delivered into the hospital.  He actually didn't want to go to the hospital. But see for yourself.

A lot of people who don’t know how sick they are don’t want to seek medical care, thinking it is something that will pass. 

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, Onxidlib said:

Maybe you would like to watch the only documentary about ED which is available on youtube. In this Dutch production from 1991 titled Eric Dolphy - Last Date some insight is given - not at least by a male nurse who was in charge when Dolphy was delivered into the hospital.  He actually didn't want to go to the hospital. But see for yourself.

Thanks for that link. Just watched it. Very nice!

But I didn't see that guy. Where was he?

I did hear a lot of variants of "doctors assumed overdose and just let him be to come out of it".

How long does it take to come out of an overdose anyway?

[mjzee]

The liner notes to Last Date (Limelight) say "Eric Dolphy had arrived in Berlin from Paris on June 27.  He was four days behind schedule as he hadn't been feeling too well, and Leo Wright was subbing for him.  Two days later, on June 29th, Eric died suddenly and unexpectedly.  Leo was here in July, and he told me that he reached the hospital at ten past seven in the evening, just ten minutes after Eric died.  The doctors told Leo later that Eric died of diabetes, and had probably never suspected his condition."  So there at least is one first hand account: Leo Wright recounting what the doctors told him.

[Gheorghe]

10 hours ago, mjzee said:

The liner notes to Last Date (Limelight) say "Eric Dolphy had arrived in Berlin from Paris on June 27.  He was four days behind schedule as he hadn't been feeling too well, and Leo Wright was subbing for him.  Two days later, on June 29th, Eric died suddenly and unexpectedly.  Leo was here in July, and he told me that he reached the hospital at ten past seven in the evening, just ten minutes after Eric died.  The doctors told Leo later that Eric died of diabetes, and had probably never suspected his condition."  So there at least is one first hand account: Leo Wright recounting what the doctors told him.

I knew Leo Wright well but didn´t talk to him about Dolphy. So maybe I would have had more infos. 

The only thing I can say is that Dolphy was the FIRST alto I heard and my first love for that instrument. I heard Dolphy without even knowing who was Bird.....
A lot of progressive guys around here they loved Dolphy. 

 

[Niko]

10 hours ago, mjzee said:

The liner notes to Last Date (Limelight) say "Eric Dolphy had arrived in Berlin from Paris on June 27.  He was four days behind schedule as he hadn't been feeling too well, and Leo Wright was subbing for him.  Two days later, on June 29th, Eric died suddenly and unexpectedly.  Leo was here in July, and he told me that he reached the hospital at ten past seven in the evening, just ten minutes after Eric died.  The doctors told Leo later that Eric died of diabetes, and had probably never suspected his condition."  So there at least is one first hand account: Leo Wright recounting what the doctors told him.

thanks, it's both Wright recounting what the doctors told him + the doctors saying that they had diagnosed a diabetes that apparently had not been noticed before... so that story + the fact that it's in the liner notes of a well-known album would explain how we all know about the diabetes even though Dolphy himself may never have known

[JSngry]

The doctors finally figured out that it was diabetes and not an overdose, is that the story here?

It seems to be.

[AllenLowe]

4 hours ago, Niko said:

thanks, it's both Wright recounting what the doctors told him + the doctors saying that they had diagnosed a diabetes that apparently had not been noticed before... so that story + the fact that it's in the liner notes of a well-known album would explain how we all know about the diabetes even though Dolphy himself may never have known

thanks, it's also important to note that diabetes diagnosis and treatment was extremely primitive back then, another reason to believe that the treatment was not some racist aberration. But as they say about printing the legend.....