Jazz Messengers--longest stints

[Milestones]

Can anyone provide some names of players who were Messengers for an extended period?  That's in relative terms, of course, as Blakey always seemed to continually bring in new young talent.  I believe Wayne Shorter put in 5 years.  I'n not sure anyone else matched that.  

[JSngry]

Consecutively?

[soulpope]

Jymie Merritt (1957 - 1962) comes to my mind ....

[Rooster_Ties]

The answers are probably all here…

https://jazzmf.com/art-blakey-chronology-and-the-jazz-messengers/

[bertrand]

I always thought it was Wayne. Merritt is not far behind.

[JSngry]

Bill Hardman was a fill-in over several decades, does that count?

[felser]

Seems like some of the later guys like Bobby Watson also had fairly long runs.  Though I can't think of anybody from any era who exceeded about five years.

[Milestones]

Hardman, several decades?  Interesting.

[JSngry]

Hardman was the "on call" guy if there was an empty trumpet chair for a night or on a brief gig, especially in the 60s. Or so I've heard.

[Peter Friedman]

I would guess Lee Morgan. He played in the Messengers with Benny Golson, Hank Mobley, and Wayne Shorter, and maybe others too.

[JSngry]

5 minutes ago, Peter Friedman said:

I would guess Lee Morgan. He played in the Messengers with Benny Golson, Hank Mobley, and Wayne Shorter, and maybe others too.

John Gilmore too?

[Milestones]

Wasn't Lee Morgan in and out over a pretty long stretch?   When he was out, Freddie Hubbard took the spot.  

[felser]

1 hour ago, Milestones said:

Wasn't Lee Morgan in and out over a pretty long stretch?   When he was out, Freddie Hubbard took the spot.  

Hubbard replaced Morgan after his long initial stretch, then Morgan came back for a time after Hubbard left following his long stretch.  Morgan's second stay yielded the Limelight album with Gilmore and John Hicks.  Chuck Mangione and Keith Jarrett joined shortly thereafter.

[Milestones]

I noticed there was actually an album on which both Hubbard and Morgan appear, seemingly together on most or all of the tracks.  I can't recall the title right now.

 

 

[mjzee]

31 minutes ago, Milestones said:

I noticed there was actually an album on which both Hubbard and Morgan appear, seemingly together on most or all of the tracks.  I can't recall the title right now.

 

 

It was Soul Finger.

 

[soulpope]

3 hours ago, mjzee said:

It was Soul Finger.

One track feat Lucky Thompson ....  a candidate for the "shortest stint" 😎 ....

[Gheorghe]

23 hours ago, soulpope said:

One track feat Lucky Thompson ....  a candidate for the "shortest stint" 😎 ....

 

Lucky Thompson ? I think he had a quite interrupted career, in the 40´s he was very much in demand with Billy Eckstine and all the bop groups, from the 50´s I only know his solos on Miles Davis "Walkin" and it seems that in the early 60´s he was "everywhere" in Paris, playing among others with Bud Powell....

 

 

On 6/13/2024 at 2:00 AM, felser said:

Hubbard replaced Morgan after his long initial stretch, then Morgan came back for a time after Hubbard left following his long stretch.  Morgan's second stay yielded the Limelight album with Gilmore and John Hicks.  Chuck Mangione and Keith Jarrett joined shortly thereafter.

Gilmore was one of the best of the saxophonists somewhat lesser known than Trane and Newks and so on. I saw him only with Sun Ra where he was fantastic, and heard records with sessions with him like "A Blowing Session". 

CHUCK MANGIONE AND KEITH JARRETT with Blakey ? I might listen how this sounds. I know Mangione only from his "Children of Sanchéz" which I really liked, and I liked Keith Jarrett from the earlier things with Lloyd and above all the tenure with Miles Davis, his playing Fender Rhodes and Yamaha Organ at the same time was magic. How might it have sounded, them together with the Messengers. How did they change the messengers sound? I have heard there were also sessions where the Messengers played with electric piano ? 

It seems that the period after Hubbard and Morgan is not well known or well documentated, the only better known activity of Blakey until his contract with Timeless Records was "Giant´s of Jazz". 

[felser]

16 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

CHUCK MANGIONE AND KEITH JARRETT with Blakey ? I might listen how this sounds. I know Mangione only from his "Children of Sanchéz" which I really liked, and I liked Keith Jarrett from the earlier things with Lloyd and above all the tenure with Miles Davis, his playing Fender Rhodes and Yamaha Organ at the same time was magic. How might it have sounded, them together with the Messengers. How did they change the messengers sound? I have heard there were also sessions where the Messengers played with electric piano ? 

It seems that the period after Hubbard and Morgan is not well known or well documentated, the only better known activity of Blakey until his contract with Timeless Records was "Giant´s of Jazz". 

Mangione and Jarrett are on the 1966 Buttercorn Lady album on the Limelight label.  While the personnel was fascinating (Frank Mitchell and Reggie Johnson complete the group), the album is pretty routine, as were all of his Limelight recordings.  Mangione and Jarrett had not yet found their personal styles.     There were three of great early 70's Prestige Jazz Messengers albums ("Child's Dance", "Buhaina", "Anthenagin") with electric piano.  Cedar Walton, Woody Shaw, and Carter Jefferson shine on these.

[JSngry]

Yeah, those Prestige sides are fun!

And then the Roulette albums.

And before that the quasi bootlegs with Billy Harper...and the Catalyst record with Carlos Garnet and Joanne Brackeen.

[felser]

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

And before that the quasi bootlegs with Billy Harper...and the Catalyst record with Carlos Garnet and Joanne Brackeen.

I love those sides with Harper!  Wish that Catalyst record was more easily available on CD (and wish they would put out that Waldron/Peacock 'First Encounter' album on CD - that's my favorite Mal Waldron album!).  Blakey's 'Gypsy Folk Tales' on Roulette is a favorite of mine - World, meet the supremely gifted Bobby Watson!

[JSngry]

Am I remembering right that it was Bill Hardman onboard with both Harper & Garnett...and then again on Backgammon?

Gotta also remember that there was a spell where The Jazz Messengers were not a regularly working unit. Blakey was picking up gigs when they were there and getting who he could get. Hardman was on a lot of those gigs. Woody Shaw was as well, to a lesser extent.

[felser]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

Am I remembering right that it was Bill Hardman onboard with both Harper & Garnett...and then again on Backgammon?

Yes indeed.

[soulpope]

4 hours ago, felser said:

I love those sides with Harper!  Wish that Catalyst record was more easily available on CD (and wish they would put out that Waldron/Peacock 'First Encounter' album on CD - that's my favorite Mal Waldron album!).

Excellent music ....

[Mark Stryker]

On 6/12/2024 at 9:35 PM, mjzee said:

It was Soul Finger.

 

Morgan and Hubbard also both appear on Blakey's "Golden Boy" recorded in late spring 1964. 

 

[Ken Dryden]

Bobby Watson told me in an interview that he was trying to stay a little longer with Blakey when learned of a gig that he wasn’t told about and that’s how he learned that Blakey had kicked him out of the nest to encourage him to go out on his own.   

Edited June 15, 2024 by Ken Dryden