Amazon CDs Which Are Actually CDRs

[Ken Dryden]

I need to learn to open CDs from Amazon promptly, as occasionally I've found that I've been sold a damned CDR. While some people have said that manufactured CDs have sometimes showed signs of digital rot and no longer play, I've never had that happen in 40 years of collecting CDs. However, I have had several CDRs that have failed completely.

Are there particular labels that only sell CDRs now? I know that is the case with Acrobat, but my recent discovery was two recent releases from Mark O'Connor's OMAC label.

Please share any labels you've encountered that have taken this money-saving shortcut without informing buyers prior to purchase.

Edited May 21 by Ken Dryden

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I believe new OJC CDs from Amazon are now CD-Rs. I know all Mode/V.S.O.P. discs sold there are CD-Rs. I had the label confirm that they were only going that route from here on out. I'm not sure if it's an Amazon thing, but I've seen a lot of Venus Jazz CD-Rs.

[Ken Dryden]

I will continue to return these mislabeled releases and report them as such.

[Aggie87]

Amazon used to make this statement on CDR listings:

"This product is manufactured on demand using CD-R recordable media. Amazon.com's standard return policy will apply."

I don't know if they still do or not.  But if it is in the listing, they're at least warning you it's not a silver cd.

[Ken Dryden]

These are Amazon listings where there is no warning, that's why I'm surprised. I have no use for them and they are a ripoff when they are charging the same price as a manufactured CD. Usually when I see a jazz CD I've long wanted that I thought was out of print on Amazon and it is listed as new, I am suspicious.

[Pim]

I think this is the case with some of the OJCs. Also got a few Soul Note and Black Saint albums that were actually CDRs. I did not return them as I saw it as my own (misreading) mistake but was pretty annoyed anyway

Edited May 21 by Pim

[Teasing the Korean]

I've bought a few CDRs over the years, but Amazon labeled them as such.  It is better than nothing.  I immediately backed them up.  It is basically like buying a lossless download, and the CDRs are/were often cheaper than lossless downloads.

[Stompin at the Savoy]

I am in the minority on this but to me the cd is packaging or delivery system.  I no longer think of recordings as cd's.  What really matters to me are the files on the cd.  The first thing I do when I get a cd is to rip the files to my hard drive and copy to backups.  The cd itself is just another form of backup for me.  Having been read once, the cd goes in pristine shape to a storage unit.

[Aggie87]

Not me - I like the tactile experience of putting on an LP or a CD and playing/listening to it.  

[jazzbo]

5 minutes ago, Aggie87 said:

Not me - I like the tactile experience of putting on an LP or a CD and playing/listening to it.  

+1. No ripping and file use for me.

[JSngry]

If you were at somebody's house listening to music and you didn't get to touch an object, could you tell the difference between a file on a hard drive and the same file on a CD?

In other words, remove the tactile experience (which is certainly a real thing in itself), and what have you got?

[rostasi]

I've kinda gotten less interested in fondling non-sentients as I've gotten older.

[Aggie87]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

If you were at somebody's house listening to music and you didn't get to touch an object, could you tell the difference between a file on a hard drive and the same file on a CD?

In other words, remove the tactile experience (which is certainly a real thing in itself), and what have you got?

I don't know about that, but I'm personally more interested/impressed when I visit someone's house and see an actual physical collection, versus someone having no library other than digital, with nothing to actually look at.  It doesn't mean they like music more or less, but I feel like I'm meeting a kindred soul.

Saying that, I'm also at a point where I'm not interested in growing my own collection significantly larger, so I tend to cull things I don't listen to as much anymore, which makes space for newer purchases.  

Edited May 21 by Aggie87

[Ken Dryden]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

If you were at somebody's house listening to music and you didn't get to touch an object, could you tell the difference between a file on a hard drive and the same file on a CD?

In other words, remove the tactile experience (which is certainly a real thing in itself), and what have you got?

When I visit someone's house, I like to look over their LP/CD collection, not at what they have in digital files on a computer. I enjoy reading and re-reading liner notes, having the details handy as to the musicians and their instruments, composers & lyricists, etc. It is also much easier producing my radio show with physical media.

Anyone is welcome to collect music as they wish, but as HutchFan can attest, as I can with his library, it's more fun to peruse a friend's physical music collection, especially when a random search of the shelves turns up a recording you've never heard or maybe didn't even know existed.

Download offers from publicists and artists are routinely rejected if there is a physical version available. I don't want to even think about trying to back up my collection, it would take far too much time due to its size.

 

[JSngry]

Some folks don't enjoy being snooped like that, especially if they're just having you over as part of a group.

Besides, I don't really care about other people's collections any more, not like that. I'm full, so to speak.

[rostasi]

I think Folkways discs are like that now.
You want a physical release, they'll burn it for you and send it on.

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, rostasi said:

I've kinda gotten less interested in fondling non-sentients as I've gotten older.

Better to receive than give!

[Stompin at the Savoy]

When you rip a cd to disk, the files on your hard drive are identical to the files on the cd.  If you feed the output from cd and output from the files through the same converter, pre-amp and amp setup, the result will be identical.  A file is a file regardless of where it resides.  To your amplifier there is no difference.  It will sound different if you send the signal through a different amplifier/speaker setup.

As for the cd booklets - I just photograph them, so I can probably play the recording and pull up the notes on my screen while most of you are still trying to find the cd, take it out of the case, put it in a player...

As for showing my collection to a friend - letting them look at my collection on screen in player software like iTunes is actually quite a bit easier than trying to view all my thousands of cds: they can search for an artist, title, player etc, browse by artist, title, player, etc.

There is no wrong way to handle your music files.  You like cd's or vinyl - go for it.  There are other ways to look at and organize music files, that is all I am trying to say.

Edited May 22 by Stompin at the Savoy

[jazzbo]

I disagree that the sound is always the same from a cd or a digital file, that all depends on so much. I'm happy for anyone who loves the files played from a computer etc. In my system I've tried both and I have a lot more money in playing cds and LPs from the disc and the sound shows that. And I'm done spending money on these sort of sources--and very happy with the sound I have. For me it's less about handling the physical object as the way things play and sound.

Edited May 22 by jazzbo

[JSngry]

I take what I can get, because that's how I can get.

 

[Stompin at the Savoy]

1 hour ago, jazzbo said:

I disagree that the sound is always the same from a cd or a digital file, that all depends on so much. I'm happy for anyone who loves the files played from a computer etc. In my system I've tried both and I have a lot more money in playing cds and LPs from the disc and the sound shows that. And I'm done spending money on these sort of sources--and very happy with the sound I have. For me it's less about handling the physical object as the way things play and sound.

The source file is the same.  The differences occur 1)  because your cd player has its own digital to audio conversion which you are not using if you play some other way; 2) the signal chain after the signal leaves your cd player is probably different from when you play a file on your pc.  As I said, and I am moderately well informed in these matters, the source file is identical if you ripped it to a lossless format.  You can reconvert the digital file to a cd and the files on that cd will be completely identical to files on the original cd.

I don't doubt that your cd setup sounds better than playing files on a computer but the reason is not because the files are different on a cd than on a hard drive, memory stick, etc.

Edited May 22 by Stompin at the Savoy

[Chuck Nessa]

3 hours ago, jazzbo said:

 In my system I've tried both and I have a lot more money in playing cds and LPs from the disc and the sound shows that.

Can you clarify that statement?

[Stompin at the Savoy]

What Lon says makes perfect sense to me.  I believe he has a high quality cd player with top quality digital to audio conversion.  Couple that with excellent tube amp, good speakers, etc and the files on the cd sound good.  Next to that, even using his good amp and speakers, the sound card on his pc is probably inferior.

Of course you can also obtain very high quality digital to audio conversion equipment and use it on files stored in media other than cd and it would probably sound similar but since he has invested a lot in his current cd setup and is committed to the physical formats it makes sense to not be interested in using the files outside of their cd format.  If it works for you, it's good.

[jazzcorner]

After I discovered that JASMIN from the UK issues CD-R's instead of normal CD's for reissues I have stopped buying from them.

I discovered that when I had ordered an Art Van Damme reissue.

 

[jazzbo]

9 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

Can you clarify that statement?

Playing cds and LPs sounds considerably better to me on my system than playing back non-physical media. I've spent more on and have more quality components for physical media so that's fortunate.

11 hours ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

The source file is the same.  The differences occur 1)  because your cd player has its own digital to audio conversion which you are not using if you play some other way; 2) the signal chain after the signal leaves your cd player is probably different from when you play a file on your pc.  As I said, and I am moderately well informed in these matters, the source file is identical if you ripped it to a lossless format.  You can reconvert the digital file to a cd and the files on that cd will be completely identical to files on the original cd.

I don't doubt that your cd setup sounds better than playing files on a computer but the reason is not because the files are different on a cd than on a hard drive, memory stick, etc.

The source file CAN Be the same if all pathways/conversion is correct. The playback can be different. In my system the playback of physical media is better sounding to me due to component and cabling quality etc.

To each their own. I have no desire to invest more money to make "files" sound improved.

Edited May 22 by jazzbo