Obscure or Underrated Bassists

[soulpope]

On 4/30/2024 at 10:25 PM, clifford_thornton said:

Would also like to add:

Scotty Holt

Beb Guérin

François Mechali

Good call ....

[ejp626]

I like the albums by Ahmed Abdul-Malik.

Also, Al McKibbon, particularly the CD Black Lotus.

I think they are both fairly obscure.

[mikeweil]

1 hour ago, ejp626 said:

Also, Al McKibbon, particularly the CD Black Lotus.

I think they are both fairly obscure.

https://jazzdiscography.com/Leaders/mckibbon.php

It was Black Orchid! And yes, they are rare, McKibbon's more than Abdul-Mailk's.

[Joe]

A third vote for George Tucker, who died far too young. He could edge outside when he needed to.

Saheh Sarbib has a high-ish profile in the 80s thanks to leader dates on the Cadence and Black Lion labels, but I guess he "left the scene" at some point [?]

 

[Chuck Nessa]

On 4/29/2024 at 11:39 PM, Stevie Mclean said:

I'll start with some obscure players.

Carl Brown (His only recording was Steve Lacy's "Evidence" session.)

 

Carl Brown made another Lacy date for Atlantic. It was a trio date with Billy Higgins (recorded 2 weeks before 'Evidence"), and remains unissued.

Edited May 4, 2024 by Chuck Nessa

[Gheorghe]

Not obscure but underrated : 

 

Herbie Lewis !

I love him, he appears on many live dates and recordings sessions but seems to be more a musician´s musician. 
But I say it was love from first hearing: Saw him with an ultimate Dream Band of Jackie McLean, Bobby Hutcherson, Herbie Lewis, Billy Higgins and his solo on the first tune "Blue´n Boogie" was a highlight of special quality. 
I love his sound and his touch of the strings, to hear him pluggin´the bass.....

[rostasi]

Richard Maloof (1940-2024)

[soulpope]

3 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

Carl Brown made another Lacy date for Atlantic. It was a trio date with Billy Higgins (recorded 2 weeks before 'Evidence"), and remains unissued.

What a pity 😪 ....

[soulpope]

8 hours ago, ejp626 said:

.... Also, Al McKibbon, particularly the CD Black Lotus.

Believe his outings with Thelonious Monk @ London are might fine ....

[soulpope]

Isla Eckinger ....

[felser]

19 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

Not obscure but underrated : 

 

Herbie Lewis !

I love him, he appears on many live dates and recordings sessions but seems to be more a musician´s musician. 
 

Just listening to him this morning on Time For Tyner, where he is outstanding.

 

[Stevie Mclean]

22 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

Not obscure but underrated : 

 

Herbie Lewis !

I love him, he appears on many live dates and recordings sessions but seems to be more a musician´s musician. 
But I say it was love from first hearing: Saw him with an ultimate Dream Band of Jackie McLean, Bobby Hutcherson, Herbie Lewis, Billy Higgins and his solo on the first tune "Blue´n Boogie" was a highlight of special quality. 
I love his sound and his touch of the strings, to hear him pluggin´the bass.....

Great player, and he's got style as well!

 

23 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

Carl Brown made another Lacy date for Atlantic. It was a trio date with Billy Higgins (recorded 2 weeks before 'Evidence"), and remains unissued.

Ack, I forgot about that. let me know when I can get my ears on it,I'm not a fan of window shopping. 😢

[sgcim]

I played with one bass player back in the 70s, his only jazz credit is a band  Teramusa Hino formed called Everything is Everything, who only released one album,"Just a Flash in the Cosmic Plan", and he was an excellent, underrated, obscure player, but that's about every bass player in NYC. I chose JC, because he was a player in the pit of a theater in NY I used to play in, and he used to get so polluted from the cloud of weed he'd do before every show, that one night he broke two bass strings during one show(!) We were playing something called TSOP,  all Philly Disco music, and he was playing heavy funk fills all over the place, and the first time it happened I thought, "wow, that's never happened before," but the second time it happened, I thought "demonic weed".

[soulpope]

1 hour ago, sgcim said:

I played with one bass player back in the 70s, his only jazz credit is a band  Teramusa Hino formed called Everything is Everything, who only released one album,"Just a Flash in the Cosmic Plan", and he was an excellent, underrated, obscure player, but that's about every bass player in NYC. I chose JC, because he was a player in the pit of a theater in NY I used to play in, and he used to get so polluted from the cloud of weed he'd do before every show, that one night he broke two bass strings during one show(!) We were playing something called TSOP,  all Philly Disco music, and he was playing heavy funk fills all over the place, and the first time it happened I thought, "wow, that's never happened before," but the second time it happened, I thought "demonic weed".

Without naming him aka John Carbone he will remain even more obscure 😇 .... thnx for sharing though .... btw the bass players on both "Everything Is Everything" albums (the combo is alternatively called Group Everything Everything Everything) are also Reggie Workman and Dave Holland  .... not bad choices at all 👹 ....

[JSngry]

I'll nominate Wilbur Ware. Everybody knows the name, but how about the playing itself? Influence on today's players?

[Joe]

How about Jimmy Bond? I mean, from Chet Baker to The Wrecking Crew to Tim Buckley.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kMH4iV5-js

Edited May 5, 2024 by Joe

[Stevie Mclean]

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

I'll nominate Wilbur Ware. Everybody knows the name, but how about the playing itself? Influence on today's players?

Yes!! I absolutely adore his playing. He was my first love when it comes to jazz bass. His use of harmonics is so unique and recognizable and his rhythmic feel hits me like a truck. 
I also quite enjoy his playing with Walt Dickerson in the 70's. It's awesome to hear his signature sound from the 50's in a more free setting.

13 hours ago, sgcim said:

I played with one bass player back in the 70s, his only jazz credit is a band  Teramusa Hino formed called Everything is Everything, who only released one album,"Just a Flash in the Cosmic Plan", and he was an excellent, underrated, obscure player, but that's about every bass player in NYC. I chose JC, because he was a player in the pit of a theater in NY I used to play in, and he used to get so polluted from the cloud of weed he'd do before every show, that one night he broke two bass strings during one show(!) We were playing something called TSOP,  all Philly Disco music, and he was playing heavy funk fills all over the place, and the first time it happened I thought, "wow, that's never happened before," but the second time it happened, I thought "demonic weed".

A very fitting album title for his lone recording.

[JSngry]

A few years ago, in this community, I was a bit taken back at the amount of ambivalence toward Jimmy Garrison. It was all aimed at his solos. Ok, I guess, but what about the rest of it?

Still underrated in my book.

[Stevie Mclean]

8 minutes ago, JSngry said:

A few years ago, in this community, I was a bit taken back at the amount of ambivalence toward Jimmy Garrison. It was all aimed at his solos. Ok, I guess, but what about the rest of it?

Still underrated in my book.

I might agree with his bowed solos leaving a little to be desired (though he is far from alone in that category as far as I am concerned) however, I never have issues with his pizz solos. And I agree with you, "the rest of it" alone is enough to justify his place in the halls of bass excellence.

Jackie McLean - Swing Swang Swingin'

Bill Barron - The Tenor Stylings...

J.R. Monterose - The Message

Walter Bishop Jr. - Speak Low

Kenny Dorham - Show Boat

Philly Joe - Blues for Dracula 😉

[JSngry]

7 minutes ago, Stevie Mclean said:

I might agree with his bowed solos leaving a little to be desired (though he is far from alone in that category as far as I am concerned) however, I never have issues with his pizz solos. And I agree with you, "the rest of it" alone is enough to justify his place in the halls of bass excellence.

Jackie McLean - Swing Swang Swingin'

Bill Barron - The Tenor Stylings...

J.R. Monterose - The Message

Walter Bishop Jr. - Speak Low

Kenny Dorham - Show Boat

Philly Joe - Blues for Dracula 😉

The beef seemed to be with his double-stopped solos. I mean, ok I guess, but still...

I'd like to go back in this thread to second the rec for Wellman Braud. Stong bass playing!

[soulpope]

Makes me think about the late Joe Benjamin ....

[sgcim]

18 hours ago, soulpope said:

Without naming him aka John Carbone he will remain even more obscure 😇 .... thnx for sharing though .... btw the bass players on both "Everything Is Everything" albums (the combo is alternatively called Group Everything Everything Everything) are also Reggie Workman and Dave Holland  .... not bad choices at all 👹 ....

I don't know if he would like being known for what I was talking about in my post. That's why I didn't mention his name.

 

[Chuck Nessa]

9 hours ago, JSngry said:

I'll nominate Wilbur Ware. Everybody knows the name, but how about the playing itself? Influence on today's players?

A couple of images from an Andrew Hill event at the University of Chicago circa 1968 - taken by Terry Martin.

Wilbur Ware, Thurman Barker and Roscoe Mitchell.

[John B Litweiler]

20-30 years ago, one afternoon at the Chicago Jazz Festival in Grant Park, Charlie Haden played for an hour exactly as Wilbur Ware would have played.   Afterwards I told Charlie he sounded like a true Chicago bassist.   Charlie said, "That's the best compliment."

 

Bill Johnson was a powerful bass player on the Johnny Dodds Victors.   I wonder what he sounded like in the original (pre-Oliver) Creole Band.

[soulpope]

3 hours ago, sgcim said:

I don't know if he would like being known for what I was talking about in my post. That's why I didn't mention his name.

You recalled him being an excellent bass player, what was the most important part of the story (to me) ....