romualdo Posted April 10 Report Posted April 10 are you referring to this? https://pastdaily.com/2022/09/11/gerald-wilson-and-his-orch-live-in-san-francisco-1950-past-daily-downbeat/ Big Band Modern : Ernie Royal (tp) plus following poss. pers. : Walter Williams (tp) Melba Liston, Henry Coker, Robert Wagner, Trummy Young (tb) Sonny Criss, Willie Smith (as) Wardell Gray, Zoot Sims, Stan Getz (ts) prob. more unknown (reeds), Gerry Wiggins (p) Red Callender (b) Lee Young (d) Gerald Wilson (arr,cond,tp-1) Live, Los Angeles, February 8, 1954 Hollywood freeway The Jazz Factory (Sp)JFCD22880 [CD] Sea breeze (1) - Nice work if you can get it (wg + rhythm only) - Indiana (wg + rhythm only) - It had to be you (zs + rhythm only,*) - Out of nowhere (sg + rhythm only) - Hollywood freeway (*) - Note: The Jazz Factory (Sp)JFCD22880 [CD] lists recording date as San Francisco's Veterans Memorial, San Francisco, early 1950 and that this session was recorded in stereo, a new technology in 1950. However, according to research by Alun Morgan and Malcolm Walker with help from Don Maggin's biography, the recording date is much more likely to be Los Angeles, February 1954. James Accardi's online Wardell Gray discography gives "Concert, San Francisco Veterans' Memorial, San Francisco, CA, Monday, February 8, 1954". See prob. mid-late April, 1954 for the rest of The Jazz Factory (Sp)JFCD22880 [CD]. (1) This title also on American Jazz Classics (Sp)99070 [CD] titled "You Better Believe It! + Moment Of Truth". (*) These 2 titles also on Marshmallow (Jap) Quote
JSngry Posted April 10 Author Report Posted April 10 That's the one. Willie Smith is unlikely to me. I swear it sounds like Dolphy! I'm a little skeptical of Lee Young as well, to be honest. But I'm not going to the mat on that one. Then there's the matter of the tenor players on the opener. I doesn't seem like they would be the apparent guest artists who hadn't been introduced yet. And from that...regardless of location, surely this was not the entire gig? What constitutes the further research, and were there other acts on the bill? The big band is HOT, what relatively little we get to hear of them. Ernie Royal, if that's who it is playing lead... that's how it goes! Quote
Stonewall15 Posted April 10 Report Posted April 10 The Jazz Factory CD also has 8 tracks from the Audiolab LP AL1538 recorded in LA in early 1954. Quote
JSngry Posted April 10 Author Report Posted April 10 I have that LP on Federal 10". It doesn't have the vocal though. Who was that singer? Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted April 10 Report Posted April 10 7 minutes ago, JSngry said: I have that LP on Federal 10". It doesn't have the vocal though. Who was that singer? The Classics cd credits the drummer, Gus Gustafson. Quote
bertrand Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 Too early for Earl Anderza to be one of the uncredited reeds, I assume? Quote
JSngry Posted April 11 Author Report Posted April 11 See what you think. I know it's not Willie Smith. But I do hear Dolphy. Still early Dolphy, but if this is LA 1954...that sound.... Quote
mikeweil Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 (edited) Doesn't sound like Willie Smith to me, either, but who's the second alto player? There are two exchanging some fours etc.! Sonny Criss is listed in the presumed) personnel above, and, well ..... Edited April 11 by mikeweil Quote
Stonewall15 Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 The Audiolab LP has 3 tracks on the Federal 10-in LP. "Bull Fighter", "Theme" and "Since We Said Goodbye". Quote
Niko Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 19 hours ago, bertrand said: Too early for Earl Anderza to be one of the uncredited reeds, I assume? I was thinking of Anderza as well, don't think it's too early, that Leroy Robinson, the other alto player besides Dolphy in the Roy Porter Big Band also had kind of a similar sound... But he died earlier iirc... I always thought that type of, well, hollow cry was something that was in the air at that time in LA, maybe Lloyd Reese taught it... Maybe his students figured it out on their own Quote
mikeweil Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 Am I the only one to hear two alto players in the track linked above? Quote
JSngry Posted April 11 Author Report Posted April 11 1 hour ago, mikeweil said: Am I the only one to hear two alto players in the track linked above? No you're not. That's the ongoing speculation - who is the second alto player? I am hearing Dolphy, based on the tone and a few micro quirks in the playing. Check it out a 1:56 Quote
Niko Posted April 12 Report Posted April 12 The discography on wardellgray.org says poss. John Anderson, Louis Grey, Allen Smith (tp); Bob Collins, poss. Isaac Bell, Atlee Chapman, John “Streamline” Ewing, or Britt Woodman (tb); prob. Sonny Criss, poss. Jerry Dodgion (as); Teddy Edwards, poss. Frank Haynes (ts); Jerome Richardson (flute); poss. Bill Green (bar); poss. Cedric Haywood (p); poss. Addison Farmer (b); poss. Gus Gustafson (d); Gerald Wilson (arr, cond); Bill Renault (Bill Jones) (voc) Criss and Dodgion as the two altos I find believable Quote
AllenLowe Posted April 12 Report Posted April 12 (edited) 17 hours ago, JSngry said: No you're not. That's the ongoing speculation - who is the second alto player? I am hearing Dolphy, based on the tone and a few micro quirks in the playing. Check it out a 1:56 I'm with you - also, just before 2:00 he does a little interval jump which is very Dolphy-esque, in embryo. But who are they calling the best big-band drummer ever? Silly; my money is on John Markham for the best big band drummer, not this guy, who is still fine. Edited April 12 by AllenLowe Quote
JSngry Posted April 12 Author Report Posted April 12 2 minutes ago, AllenLowe said: But who are they calling the best big-band drummer ever? Lee Young Quote
AllenLowe Posted April 12 Report Posted April 12 1 minute ago, JSngry said: Lee Young really? Oi. Also, btw, the tenor solo is terrific. Quote
mikeweil Posted April 12 Report Posted April 12 2 hours ago, Niko said: The discography on wardellgray.org says poss. John Anderson, Louis Grey, Allen Smith (tp); Bob Collins, poss. Isaac Bell, Atlee Chapman, John “Streamline” Ewing, or Britt Woodman (tb); prob. Sonny Criss, poss. Jerry Dodgion (as); Teddy Edwards, poss. Frank Haynes (ts); Jerome Richardson (flute); poss. Bill Green (bar); poss. Cedric Haywood (p); poss. Addison Farmer (b); poss. Gus Gustafson (d); Gerald Wilson (arr, cond); Bill Renault (Bill Jones) (voc) Criss and Dodgion as the two altos I find believable Compare to Dodgion on his early Fantasy sessions. Quote
JSngry Posted April 12 Author Report Posted April 12 But this concert is now thought to have been in LA. Quote
medjuck Posted April 12 Report Posted April 12 23 hours ago, JSngry said: No you're not. That's the ongoing speculation - who is the second alto player? I am hearing Dolphy, based on the tone and a few micro quirks in the playing. Check it out a 1:56 Me too. But do you think he has the rest of the photos right excluding those of Wille Smith? Quote
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