Great albums from the classic jazz and Dixieland revival (1939 onwards)

[jazzbo]

All the Jazz Nocturne lps or cds are great.

[optatio]

28 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

If I feel like letting myself be entertained by such "fun dixieland" I'd rather stick with our unpretentious German "Beer Jazz" trad bands such as the Old Merry Tale Jazz Band. 😁

I saw them at their last performance as an amateur band in Hamburg! "Korrekter Anzug erbeten"/“correct suit requested” still causes hilarity!

 

[Big Beat Steve]

3 minutes ago, optatio said:

I saw them at their last performance as an amateur band in Hamburg! "Korrekter Anzug erbeten"/“correct suit requested” still causes hilarity!

 

 

Those were the days ... (At least as seen on period photos from such events - I was not yet born then ...)

[optatio]

23 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

 

Those were the days ... (At least as seen on period photos from such events - I was not yet born then ...)

The other side: At the end of 1960 I came to Göttingen to study and saw Gunter Hampel for the first time in the club 'Centre'. Years later I told him that I had seen the Old Merry Tale Jazz Band in Hamburg. He asked me in surprise: "Were you really there?" ...

Edited April 7 by optatio

[Chuck Nessa]

Available HERE

[Rabshakeh]

23 hours ago, Niko said:

just a tiny comment on a detail, the lack of collaborations: I've been under the impression that fans of traditional jazz are not fond of albums that mix musicians from different subgenres of their music... like when you read about e.g. that first Jazzology album by Tony Parenti (this one) people will point that it is good even though the frontline has Jimmy Archey next to Wild Bill Davison etc and there's the danger of things not mixing well..

I get that sense too. But is that more of a "fake" Chicago style vs "true" Dixieland styles (the San Fran and New Orleans)? There seems to be a lot of crossover between the San Francisco and the New Orleans "uptown" scene of George Lewis etc.

23 hours ago, Niko said:

 

btw, this is a fairly nice album from the mid 60s that consciously mixes some of the different New Orleans scenes of its time and I'm sure it's not entirely without irnoy that it was recorded in a jazz museum

I really enjoyed this one. Played with actual feeling and nice phrasing.

Thanks for suggesting it

 

18 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Not a fan.  I unloaded most of my Command albums decades ago.  That said, I do like Enoch Light's crime jazz album The Private Life of a Private Eye and a couple of his Now Sound albums, including Permissive Polyphonics and Spaced Out.  I held onto those three. 

Not even Provocative Percussion?

18 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Rabshakeh, I do admire your perseverance in exploring all these facets of post-war (and later) white dixieland/traditional jazz revivalism. 

Thanks. Not sure it is that admirable - more compulsive really. Normally I can scratch these itches myself and no one else has to hear about it.

18 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Your quote from the liner notes of that "true Dixieland sound" by the Dixie Rebels is hilarious. Eddie Condon "degrading" the "true" spirit of classic jazz (latter-day aka "Dixieland")?? My oh my ... Makes Rudi Blesh and Hugues Panassié sound like all-out modernists by comparison! 

...

So ...Overall your impressions confirm that I do not need to feel any qualms about maintaining the Condonites in all its aspects at the core of my post-WWII White Traditional Jazz listening and collecting, and beyond that a sampling here and there will do. 

That sort of sentiment seems to be everywhere with this stuff. Tiny micro scenes battling each other. That Tex Wyndham guy is another example. He clearly cannot stand Chicago style. He tries in his article on Chicago style to be even-handed as possible and to imagine why and how a person might enjoy listening to it (perhaps they enjoy solos...?), but you can see it is a strain.

Particularly interesting because I'm sure that 99% of serious jazz fans, including most of us, would pick the "fake" Chicago stuff any day. 

Edited April 8 by Rabshakeh

[Rabshakeh]

18 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

The lineup was given as "Big Jeb Dooley (tp), Lou McGarity (tb), Kenny Davern (cl), Gene Schroeder (p), Milt Hinton (b), Cliff Leeman and Panama Francis (dr). A virtual all-star lineup. And the involvement of Enoch Light was indeed mentioned. One focus of the review was on the quality of sound reproduction: "The striking-back feature apparently is a crack at such bands as the Dukes of Dixieland that have made it on sound reproduciton. The rebels claim theirs is the true Dixieland sound. The mistake on this record is the repetition of the tired Dixie tunes that have been recorded over and over from the 1920s to date by the greatest instrumentalists in the business.   [And yet they awarded it 3 stars??]  The most impresisve soloist on these sides ias tormbimist mcGarity, whose horn is good to hear again."

Well well well ...

Actually that is a pretty accurate review. It is not a bad album. Panama Francis is a refreshing change after listening to two weeks of Dixieland thumping. And Kenny Davern, if that is who it is, certainly sounds likes Kenny Davern. I certainly enjoyed this one, which I can't say for all of them.

18 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

I am not sure I have much by the Dukes of Dixieland and the like among my records But still don't feel I missed out on something crucial. And those Firehouse Five + Two LPs (10 and 12") I've let myself be lured into picking up now sit in an easy-listening corner outside my music room. These somewhat caricaturesque Dixieland bands don't do all that much for me (and I am surprised you found they rate that highly on the "most collected" charts on Discogs) even within the Traditional Jazz (I refrain from using the term "Trad Jazz" as somehow this has strictly British connotations for me) REVIVAL.

The "Most Collected" is what I take as the closest proxy for "most owned". I suspect that the metric is a passive one that brings to the front the second hand bin dwellers that sold well at the time and still lurk in collections, rather than what is being sought for actively or is actually prized.

The Dukes are definitely the ones to avoid. They are like the Firehouse 5 but more goofy and less 'charming', but with much more of the 'good old southlands' and the New Orleans is great themes. "caricaturesque Dixieland bands" is a nice way of putting it.

18 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

If I feel like letting myself be entertained by such "fun dixieland" I'd rather stick with our unpretentious German "Beer Jazz" trad bands such as the Old Merry Tale Jazz Band. 

Okay, come on. Please let's have a recommendation. You can't leave me hanging here.

[Rabshakeh]

19 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

I would tend to ignore anything recorded after, maybe 1955, in order to get an accurate aural picture of the times.

Don't forget Kid Rena, one of the first to record in the revival.

Tons of Bunk Johnson, inconsistent but some moments of real beauty; I would pick up the Decca sessions for a start.

Some else mentioned American Music, Bill Russell's label, I think, and almost everything on that is worthwhile.

Tom Brown (trombonist, not so known, but may have even been playing jazz in Chicago and elsewhere even before the ODJB). He recorded in the 1950s

Johnny Wiggs, fine trumpeter, distinctive player and even more distinctive for being an active supporter of MLK; also had a clear Bix influence.

Sharkey Bonnano

Paul Barbarin, great drummer.

Lizzie Miles, a singer who, at her peak, was, IMHO, the equal of Bessie Smith.

Ann Cook, singer, who recorded in the 1920s with Louis Dumaine, and then later on for American Music after, IIRC, she got out of prison for stabbing someone. She became a church lady.

Big Eye Nelson.

Geroge Lewis.

JELLY MORTON - get the General Recordings of his solo piano, amazing, brilliant stuff reissued on Commodore. Made just before the revival, as, sadly, Morton died too soon, but gives you a clear picture of what a more progressive New Orleans player was thinking about.

Louis Prima - few people realize what a terrific trumpeter he was before he became a star.

Irving Fazola - beautiful clarinetist. One of the best. Died young.

I am sure there is lots more; I would avoid Al Hirt and Pete Fountain. That's really tourist music, though both were excellent musicians.

Thanks.

That American music is a great resource. Lots of great stuff and these days easily accessible.

[soulpope]

19 hours ago, optatio said:

I saw them at their last performance as an amateur band in Hamburg! "Korrekter Anzug erbeten"/“correct suit requested” still causes hilarity!

🧐😎😇 ....

[Teasing the Korean]

3 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

Not even Provocative Percussion?

The Command percussion albums were the first to go. 

[Rabshakeh]

Pete Daily's Dixieland Band – Pete Daily's Dixieland Band

I must say that I enjoyed this one. A very fun record with lots of interaction and very nicely recorded. Tellingly, I think Daily might have been an old timer who rode the revival, rather than a revivalist per se. 

Does anyone have an idea of who was in the group? There is a photograph of them on the back cover but no names.

 

Edited April 8 by Rabshakeh

[gmonahan]

Lord shows Daily on cornet, Warren Smith, trombone; Stan Story, clarinet; Don Owens, piano, Nappy Lamare, guitar and banjo; Phil Stephens, tuba and bass; George Defebaugh, drums.  Recorded October 1949.

[HutchFan]

Here's a dozen that I enjoy (in no particular order):

The Chicago Jazz Giants - Live! (MPS, 1977)
with Wild Bill Davison, Eddie Hubble, Bob Wilber, Ralph Sutton, Isla Eckinger, and Cliff Leeman

Soprano Summit (World Jazz, 1977) and Soprano Summit II (World Jazz, 1978)
featuring Bob Wilber & Kenny Davern with (critically) Dick Hyman on piano

Dick Wellstood - Live at Hanratty's (Chazz Jazz/Chiaroscuro, 1981)
solo piano

Don Ewell - Man Here Plays Fine Piano! (Good Time Jazz, 1961)
with Darnell Howard, Pops Foster & Minor Hall

The World's Greatest Jazzband of Yank Lawson & Bob Haggart - Live at the Roosevelt Grill (Atlantic, 1970)
with Billy Butterfield, Lou McGarity, Vic Dickenson, Bob Wilber, Ralph Sutton, and Gus Johnson

Bobby Hackett with Vic Dickenson - Live at the Roosevelt Grill, Vols. 1 - 4 (Chiaroscuro, rec. 1970)
with Dave McKenna, Jack Lesberg, and Cliff Leeman; I'm most partial to Vol. 3, which focuses on New Orleans classics 

The Albert Nicholas Quartet with Art Hodes (Delmark, 1961)
with Earl Murphy and Freddie Kohlman

Art Hodes - I Remember Bessie (Delmark) and Tribute to the Greats (Delmark)
These solo piano tracks were originally made for the Euphonic Sound Recordings label in the 1970s.

Ralph Sutton - Alligator Crawl (Solo Art, rec. 1975-76)
The CD compiles two solo piano LPs originally released on Riff Records, NL.

Vic Dickenson – Plays Bessie Smith: "Trombone Cholly" (Sonet, 1976)
with Joe Newman, Frank Wess, and others

The Classic Jazz Quartet - The Complete Recordings (Jazzology, 2 CDs)
compiles their two mid-80s albums; with Dick Sudhalter, Dick Wellstood, Joe Muranyi, and Marty Grosz

Bucky Pizzarelli with Bud Freeman - Buck & Bud (Flying Dutchman, 1976)
some cuts are duos and others include a rhythm section of Hank Jones, Bob Haggart, and Ronnie Traxler

 

Edited April 8 by HutchFan

[JSngry]

Bob Wilber seems like an odd type of guy, but I tend to enjoy his work. 

[Rabshakeh]

1 minute ago, JSngry said:

Bob Wilber seems like an odd type of guy, but I tend to enjoy his work. 

Odd how?

[JSngry]

SO slavishly dedicated to the Bechet way for SO long. But he grew inside it anyway, slowly.

That's really the best you can hope for with that type of thing, really. Find whatever unswept crumb remain and turn them into a meal.

Wilber had the distinct advantage of learning at the feet of the master. I think that that certainly makes a difference.

I think that Wilber and some others learned not just style, but also language. That should be the object of any music, but enough people will pay for style alone that it too seldom is.

[Rabshakeh]

Another area that Wyndham misses in his classification, again probably because they were not part of the then-festival circuit, is the swing-to-bop phenomenon of swing era musicians playing hot jazz in smaller groups, whilst retaining "inauthentic " elements from Goodman-era swing or dance bands, e.g. in the rhythm or arrangements.

An obvious example would be this one:

Jimmy Dorsey And His Original "Dorseyland" Jazz Band – Dixie By Dorsey

Lots of other examples out there. Such as many of Bobby Hackett's or some of Pee Wee Hunt's records (e.g. Swingin'). 

Again, I think that the stuff sold pretty well in comparison to the more purist forms.

[Big Beat Steve]

No doubt these records sold reasonably well compared ot the more purist forms.

The Wyndham site with its "plethora" of articles and stories is a hard one to digest evenly but from what I've glanced at I'd say that to him these "Dixie bands within the band" were neither flesh nor fowl. Unjustified but understandable from a purist stance. (Though, OTOH, who within the overall Dixieland/Revival/latter-day Traditional Jazz artists would objectively have been entitled to calling himself a "purist" - beyond the "Bunk Johnson adulators" fraternity? 😁 And even then ...  )

Actually I often am not quite sure where to file records by some of the artists from your latest post. My Bobby Hackett leader LPs sit in the "White US Traditional Revival Jazz" corner but (by personal majority vote as to its musical contents) all the Bud Freeman LPs are filed in the (much, much larger) "Swing" section. And I cannot see why I should separate the small group spinoffs from their Big Band homes.
But the Jimmy Dorsey LP you showed would be worth the price of admission for its Jim Flora cover alone!

[Rabshakeh]

On 4/7/2024 at 4:49 PM, AllenLowe said:

I would tend to ignore anything recorded after, maybe 1955, in order to get an accurate aural picture of the times.

I vaguely recall that you are a fan of Ken Peplowski and some others from the most recent end of the scene. Perhaps not part of the revival itself, but part of the lineage.

18 hours ago, HutchFan said:

Here's a dozen that I enjoy (in no particular order):

The Chicago Jazz Giants - Live! (MPS, 1977)
with Wild Bill Davison, Eddie Hubble, Bob Wilber, Ralph Sutton, Isla Eckinger, and Cliff Leeman

Soprano Summit (World Jazz, 1977) and Soprano Summit II (World Jazz, 1978)
featuring Bob Wilber & Kenny Davern with (critically) Dick Hyman on piano

Dick Wellstood - Live at Hanratty's (Chazz Jazz/Chiaroscuro, 1981)
solo piano

Don Ewell - Man Here Plays Fine Piano! (Good Time Jazz, 1961)
with Darnell Howard, Pops Foster & Minor Hall

The World's Greatest Jazzband of Yank Lawson & Bob Haggart - Live at the Roosevelt Grill (Atlantic, 1970)
with Billy Butterfield, Lou McGarity, Vic Dickenson, Bob Wilber, Ralph Sutton, and Gus Johnson

Bobby Hackett with Vic Dickenson - Live at the Roosevelt Grill, Vols. 1 - 4 (Chiaroscuro, rec. 1970)
with Dave McKenna, Jack Lesberg, and Cliff Leeman; I'm most partial to Vol. 3, which focuses on New Orleans classics 

The Albert Nicholas Quartet with Art Hodes (Delmark, 1961)
with Earl Murphy and Freddie Kohlman

Art Hodes - I Remember Bessie (Delmark) and Tribute to the Greats (Delmark)
These solo piano tracks were originally made for the Euphonic Sound Recordings label in the 1970s.

Ralph Sutton - Alligator Crawl (Solo Art, rec. 1975-76)
The CD compiles two solo piano LPs originally released on Riff Records, NL.

Vic Dickenson – Plays Bessie Smith: "Trombone Cholly" (Sonet, 1976)
with Joe Newman, Frank Wess, and others

The Classic Jazz Quartet - The Complete Recordings (Jazzology, 2 CDs)
compiles their two mid-80s albums; with Dick Sudhalter, Dick Wellstood, Joe Muranyi, and Marty Grosz

Bucky Pizzarelli with Bud Freeman - Buck & Bud (Flying Dutchman, 1976)
some cuts are duos and others include a rhythm section of Hank Jones, Bob Haggart, and Ronnie Traxler

 

Thanks for this. Basically exactly what I was looking for from this thread. There was a long life to this stuff.

3 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

The Wyndham site with its "plethora" of articles and stories is a hard one to digest evenly but from what I've glanced at I'd say that to him these "Dixie bands within the band" were neither flesh nor fowl. Unjustified but understandable from a purist stance. (Though, OTOH, who within the overall Dixieland/Revival/latter-day Traditional Jazz artists would objectively have been entitled to calling himself a "purist" - beyond the "Bunk Johnson adulators" fraternity? 😁 And even then ...  )

It is like the People's Front of Judea.

3 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Actually I often am not quite sure where to file records by some of the artists from your latest post. 

Now, this is the real question. The one that motivates all of civilisation. 

[HutchFan]

50 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

Now, this is the real question. The one that motivates all of civilisation. 

 

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

There was a long life to this stuff.

Well of course there was. Players stayed alive, needed gigs to live, and got them. And then other players get hired.

As long as there are gigs, there will be players of whatever level of ability are available at whatever wage the gig pays.

Bob Wilbur got gigs and they paid well enough to get good players. That's how long lives are most easily made!

 

[gmonahan]

7 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

No doubt these records sold reasonably well compared ot the more purist forms.

The Wyndham site with its "plethora" of articles and stories is a hard one to digest evenly but from what I've glanced at I'd say that to him these "Dixie bands within the band" were neither flesh nor fowl. Unjustified but understandable from a purist stance. (Though, OTOH, who within the overall Dixieland/Revival/latter-day Traditional Jazz artists would objectively have been entitled to calling himself a "purist" - beyond the "Bunk Johnson adulators" fraternity? 😁 And even then ...  )

Actually I often am not quite sure where to file records by some of the artists from your latest post. My Bobby Hackett leader LPs sit in the "White US Traditional Revival Jazz" corner but (by personal majority vote as to its musical contents) all the Bud Freeman LPs are filed in the (much, much larger) "Swing" section. And I cannot see why I should separate the small group spinoffs from their Big Band homes.
But the Jimmy Dorsey LP you showed would be worth the price of admission for its Jim Flora cover alone!

That IS a cool cover!

 

[Rabshakeh]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

Well of course there was. Players stayed alive, needed gigs to live, and got them. And then other players get hired.

As long as there are gigs, there will be players of whatever level of ability are available at whatever wage the gig pays.

Bob Wilbur got gigs and they paid well enough to get good players. That's how long lives are most easily made!

 

Yeah, but they also released records, which is what I liked about the post. Like all scenes, it developed. The Dixieland of 1984 was not the Dixieland of 1944. There continued to be cool stuff put out. Jim Cullem (who you mentioned upthread), the Black Eagles, Soprano Summit. I'm sure there's a lot more of which I'm not aware.

But it is rarely talked about. If the traditional jazz revival is mostly ignored, it's later tail is completely ignored.

[JSngry]

Bob Wilber et al don't play "Dixieland" imo. That's why I enjoy them! They play jazz, period.

But talking about them...what is there to say? It's fun, it's very musical, and...what else? It's also not surprising, it's not supposed to be. It's just supposed to satisfy. 

You want a surprise, here's a surprise

 

 

[AllenLowe]

8 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

I vaguely recall that you are a fan of Ken Peplowski and some others from the most recent end of the scene. Perhaps not part of the revival itself, but part of the lineage.

Thanks for this. Basically exactly what I was looking for from this thread. There was a long life to this stuff.

It is like the People's Front of Judea.

Now, this is the real question. The one that motivates all of civilisation. 

I actually know Ken well and have recorded with him on several CDs; on the last, In the Dark, he does some free improvising, and does it beautifully. He is a much more versatile musician than people realize. Also a great guy.