BFT 240 Discussion Thread

[Dub Modal]

@JSngry so it’s Jacquet and not Tate correct? Or is it Tate? I have very little Jacquet listening experience but almost none of Tate. After listening again this song was the star of the BFT for me. The patience exhibited on the sax and the deep feeling in that playing is always welcome.

[JSngry]

It certainly is Jacquet! 

[DrJ]

4 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

Glad you came back for our celebration of your creation. Would be great if  you had time to hang out more, I had forgotten how thorough a commenter you were on BFT tracks back in the day. 

Thanks for the kind words and for the nice re-welcomes, everyone.

Yes, I wish I had more time to do...well, everything, come to think of it! But I am definitely enjoying this, if nothing else I think I need to get back in the BFT game as a regular thing. I'm learning a ton and getting clued in to some great music here. 

[Dan Gould]

9 hours ago, DrJ said:

 

@JSngry -  but I'm guessing perhaps this album from 1967 with Tate and Braff:   https://www.discogs.com/release/8411075-Ruby-Braff-Buddy-Tate-With-The-Newport-All-Stars   . The rhythm section, yes, great stuff - 

 

An added benefit to your return Tony - I am not sure if I was aware of this one  or not but I have been on a big Buddy Tate kick and hopped into Amazon to order this one.  I think if I was aware of it in the past George Wein might have scared me off ... but I've heard him a bit on some videos I've acquired and he was good enough. And Tate has really become a focal point of purchases lately so reasonable price, I'm on it.

So even though your guess was wrong, it was appreciated. 

[Dub Modal]

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

It certainly is Jacquet! 

I have one Jacquet CD and it’s an early MCA sides collection. I actually included it in my first BFT I think. Anyway, found the album and love it and his playing, which seems similar to: 

Ben Webster, but less fuzzy (or whatever the technical term for that aspect of Webster’s playing is)

Don Byas, but less vibrato 

Coleman Hawkins, but with less flourishes 

Arnett Cobb, but slightly less bluesy (like maybe 10% or so) 

which is all a good thing as it differentiates Jacquet from other masters, while also retaining the full spectrum of expression on the horn. Awesome player.

[JSngry]

The secret link in Jacquet is Lester Young. There's a distinction between "White Lester" and "Black Lester" in terms of which general way his influences landed.

Personally, my preference for Jacquet is from the middle 50s on. It seems like he (mostly) set aside the JATP crowd-pleasing devices and began just playing, like on the track here. 

No matter, the guy was a superb player, period. There's a rich body of work to explore, so have fun with it! 

Oh, and he played very credible bassoon as well! 

[tkeith]

So much for getting in early. 

@DrJ - Love the vamp.  Singer's voice is nice -- mellow and warm.  It's a good saxophone solo, but a little studied for my liking.  They've got a good impersonation of Trane's trio going, here (and I don't mean that as a knock).  And let's face it, I'm a sucker for a repetiive chord progression like this. Every time she starts sining, I want her to be Leena Concquest.  That doesn't happen, but I really do like her voice, as well as the overall feel of this.  I have no idea who I'm listening to.

@Dan Gould - Weren't you just here!?  Probably won't surprise you that I'm not onboard, here.  At first, I wasn't sure it was a band and not synth because of the sound.  Tight band, I'll give them that.  I have a simple rule for saxophonists who want to be showy -- have something to say.  I'm a hard pass on this one.  Trumpet is more tasteful and far more to my liking, what I can hear of it over the wah-wah guitar.  Can't say it's not good musicianship, it just clashes with my listening sensibility.  No idea what I'm listening to.

@JSngry - Aw, MAN!  HERE WE GO!  Song and player are obvious.  I remember this from my grandmother's collection (her ears were pretty hip), but she had a lot of Illinois.  This just BURNS.  THIS is how you flex-and-strut with a horn.  The story gives him license.  #BadMF  Literally never get tired of Roy's schtick -- almost to the point of a guilty pleasure.  I know he's going to "shout" at some point, and I'm always waiting for it, but it NEVER lets me down.   FIRE!  Okay, so that's Papa Jo, as well.  Not an ounce of bullshit to be found.  

@felser - Well, that didn't take long.  Billy Harper fools no one.  (He posteda great photo of his son and him playing saxophone together.  Kid's got a black-and-gold alto, but BH is firing away on his old silver one that he seems to have had overhauled).   When they dusted off this tune (so named for BH's Great Dane) for the cookers at the request of David Weiss, Billy's reaction was, "Really?"  Not sure how to break this to him, but he doesn't write bad songs.  This is from Capra Black, no?  Has to be, because that's Elvin.  Great pick.

@mjzee - It's not Basie, but royalties are owed.  Burly tenor, tastefully played.  Kamuca?  Maybe not.  Definitely a working big band, as the band is treated like an instrument.  Sound suggests 50s.  It's not Maynard's band, but maybe adjacent?  And like that, it's over.

@Joe - Oooooooo.  Sounds like Clark Terry on the head.  I know that tenor.   That's gotta be Tommy on piano, doesn't it?  OH!  That low 'bone!  YES!  Maybe Buster Cooper?  Okay, Clark Terry, no question.  OH!  Now I have an idea -- that clarinet just revealed the tenor to me.  That's gotta be Jimmy Hamilton.  I have *one* Jimmy Hamilton record, somewhere (notwithstanding the Ellington and Clarinet Summit stuff).  Mayhaps this is that.  At the end, there's a Woodyard feel to that time, but seems too tame.  I could get up and check, but this couch is pretty comfortable.  [Later-- bathroom break]  It's About Time.  That's it.  Surprised I didn't pick up on a Jimmy Jones -- that's kind of a BFT sweetspot for me.  And Kudos to Mel for bluffing me into thinking Woodyard.

@mikeweil - This reminds me of David Murray's Interboogieology (and it is of course not that).  I don't want that vamp to change.  Ah, but now I see why.  Vocalist is for real.  Though clearly has more effects on the vocals than are on that horn.  Tenor solo, sadly, leaves me cold.  Not a thing "wrong" with what's played, just doesn't hit me.  Busy piano, maybe Hilton Ruiz?  Singer is the high point of this for me.  

@Ken Dryden - Beginning to See The Light from a praise-and-worshiip setting?  Don't know who I'm listening to, but I assume this IS, in fact, recorded in a church.  

This was a fun one! 

 

Edit:
Went back to read and realized I missed a cut.

@medjuck - with apologies.  Of the bat, I was hoping for Ibrahim.  Nope.  Alto is a little to... slick for my taste.  Love the vibe of the bass & drums.  Piano is just sort of there, but I think that's okay in this setting -- let the rhythm do its thing.  No idea who/what I'm listening to.

 

 

Edited March 9 by tkeith

[felser]

7 minutes ago, tkeith said:

@felser - Well, that didn't take long.  Billy Harper fools no one.  (He posteda great photo of his son and him playing saxophone together.  Kid's got a black-and-gold alto, but BH is firing away on his old silver one that he seems to have had overhauled).   When they dusted off this tune (so named for BH's Great Dane) for the cookers at the request of David Weiss, Billy's reaction was, "Really?"  Not sure how to break this to him, but he doesn't write bad songs.  This is from Capra Black, no?  Has to be, because that's Elvin.  Great pick.

 

Thanks, yes, from 'Capra Black', which seemed like the obvious album to represent me on this communal BFT!

[tkeith]

On 3/2/2024 at 9:45 PM, Dan Gould said:

 

For me, It's Ervin mixed with Coltrane/Sanders to great detriment.  Sorry my 2c. 

And for me, that sounds lovely. 

In response to my own cut, people seem to enjoy the frontline mix of trombone and violin.  Had no idea what I was going to submit and just happened to be hanging and listening when this came on the shuffle mix. It was a no-brainer.  While no one has actually pegged this, the correct player HAS been mentioned in the discussion (though without committal). 

@DrJ - can't stop laughing about the "make it stop" story.  You've literally described all 25 years of my marriage.    Sorry it missed.  One thing this BFT has solidified (as if it hadn't been obvious), @felser, @Dan Gould and myself will never be having a listening hang.  🤣

 

[felser]

1 hour ago, tkeith said:

@felser, @Dan Gould and myself will never be having a listening hang.  🤣

 

 

Actually, it would be a blast and very humorous!  The exchanges between Dan and me are sincere reflections of very different tastes, but totally good-natured, and we converse offline fairly frequently, send each other music, etc.

[Dan Gould]

2 hours ago, tkeith said:

One thing this BFT has solidified (as if it hadn't been obvious), @felser, @Dan Gould and myself will never be having a listening hang.  🤣

 

You obviously have far wider ears than either of us.  You and I have a fairly large sweet spot we share, Felser and I a slightly smaller one.

You and he would have more to enjoy together, no doubt, since so much of what you deeply enjoy is, I think, the focus of John's listening, most of the time

 

I wouldn't decline an invite though.

 

[JSngry]

@tkeith You nailed it on Illinois, Roy, & Jo. But I don't think of Roy as having a "shtick". I think that's his voice, period. Same thing with his burrs. They come natural, it seems to me.

Bottom line - personalities aplenty!

[Ken Dryden]

5 hours ago, tkeith said:

@Ken Dryden - Beginning to See The Light from a praise-and-worship setting?  Don't know who I'm listening to, but I assume this IS, in fact, recorded in a church.  

This was a fun one! 

 

 

 

The song was identified earlier in the thread. Hardly close to praise-and-worship, which in churches around here means boring, repetitious modern praise songs with banal melodies played by rock bands.That kind of music will get me out of a church pronto!

[tkeith]

3 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

You obviously have far wider ears than either of us.  You and I have a fairly large sweet spot we share, Felser and I a slightly smaller one.

You and he would have more to enjoy together, no doubt, since so much of what you deeply enjoy is, I think, the focus of John's listening, most of the time

 

I wouldn't decline an invite though.

 

Careful -- I WILL make this happen! 

 

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

@tkeith You nailed it on Illinois, Roy, & Jo. But I don't think of Roy as having a "shtick". I think that's his voice, period. Same thing with his burrs. They come natural, it seems to me.

Bottom line - personalities aplenty!

Poor choice of words on my part.  By no means knocking Roy.  Similar to David Murray, they're going to go to that place at some point in each solo.  I never tire of either guy doing his thing.

 

[Dan Gould]

1 minute ago, tkeith said:

Careful -- I WILL make this happen! 

 

That's OK - I could always put in the hearing aids that have ear molds and take out the batteries.  

[JSngry]

"Everybody" talks about Roy's high notes, but how many people talk about his low notes? And the artistry with which he constructs the arcs that go from one to the other? His pacing here is sublime, three choruses of perfection, and perfectly tied together from start to finish.

The older I get, the more I appreciate his artistry, even more than I appreciate his exuberance.

Now if anybody wants a repeat listen or two, do Roy's notes here at times resemble a similarly exuberant tenor player?

[mjzee]

9 hours ago, tkeith said:

@mjzee - It's not Basie, but royalties are owed.  Burly tenor, tastefully played.  Kamuca?  Maybe not.  Definitely a working big band, as the band is treated like an instrument.  Sound suggests 50s.  It's not Maynard's band, but maybe adjacent?  And like that, it's over.

Agreed about the heavy Basie influence - they're not trying to hide it, and embrace it with love and enthusiasm.  About 40 seconds in, they add an extra layer of sophistication.  Not Kamuca.  As to adjacency with Ferguson, I can't say.  The bandleader does have a fascinating career, as evinced by his Wikipedia page.

[felser]

22 hours ago, JSngry said:

The older I get, the more I appreciate his artistry.

This.

[JSngry]

The Mosaic is what bumped my appreciation up to the next level. I was expecting to need a break before listening to it all, but that need never arose. 

[medjuck]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

The Mosaic is what bumped my appreciation up to the next level. I was expecting to need a break before listening to it all, but that need never arose. 

Which Mosaic?  This is great cut and seems to me to be rather subdued by their standards. 

[JSngry]

The Roy Eldridge Verve Mosaic.

An outstanding set, imo. 

[mikeweil]

Chiming in, at last - too many things keping me busy. Didn't peek at the other guesses. 

1 - Dr J - Very professional performance, clean, proficient, very good singer and band, but somehow doesn't move me.

2 - Dan Gould - evokes a similar reaction as the previous track. Very clean and competent, excellent soloists, but doesn't move me. I think it would have sounded better with an acoustic bass and recorded in a good natural acoustics. The strudio sound is a big part of the cleanliness. But  I would like to hear more of that band. 

3 - JSngry - Very nice. I love that old fashioned stompy swing feel. When I read who that tenor is I probably will exclaim "of course!". Is that Roy Eldridge? I can listen to that kind of stuff for hours!

4 - Felser - I dunno. We all love Trane's and Tyner's innovations, but again this lacks the emotional power , at least to my ears, that the 1960's modal music had. 

5 - mjzee - Reminds me of Basie, the new testament band. I would take my wife to a concert of that band, if it still existed.  196O's? Three minutes is all you need to say what you have to say.

6 - medjuck - nice calypso groove, it looses a bit of impact whenever they switch to swing in the B section and the percussionists lays out. Pianist phrases too sloppily. They should have given they percussionists a chorus. Strange ending.

7 - tkeith - now that's the most insteresting track to me, so far, catches my attention with its mix of early jazz and Carribean styles. I like the natural balance of the recording, too.  Who is this? The trombonist quotes from some Joao Donato recording. Very nice!

More tomorrow.

 

Edited April 1 by mikeweil
typos

[JSngry]

@mikeweil Yes, that is Roy Eldridge!

And "stompy swing" is an exquisitely apt description! Not just for the playing, but for the feeling it engenders, like, it gives you something solid to dance on and to. Like stomping itself is generally a graceless act, and swinging is better than not swinging, but still..."stompy swing" is just...right!!! 

@tkeith Is your cut by Ray Anderson? 

[mikeweil]

To me, that's a deeply black characteristic: stompy, but with grace and elegance!

Depends a lot on th drummer, how he plays his bass drum, and how it is recorded. I have the impression that many producers didn't like that sound and generally found bass drums obtrusive.

[tkeith]

10 hours ago, JSngry said:

@mikeweil Yes, that is Roy Eldridge!

And "stompy swing" is an exquisitely apt description! Not just for the playing, but for the feeling it engenders, like, it gives you something solid to dance on and to. Like stomping itself is generally a graceless act, and swinging is better than not swinging, but still..."stompy swing" is just...right!!! 

@tkeith Is your cut by Ray Anderson? 

Yes.  Your ears were not wrong.