BFT 240 Discussion Thread

[mjzee]

4 hours ago, JSngry said:

@mjzee A first I was thinking a Neil Hefti chart for a Woody Herman band, but then the style changed and it got to sounding like Mulligan's pen. Definitely Al Cohn on tenor. Elliot Lawrence, right? That's a fun record.

Correct!  Now I get the rest of the month off!

[JSngry]

11 minutes ago, felser said:

Cut 4 from this is what we are discussing then.  I have never checked out that album - my bad I guess?  Easily remedied on the used market.

It will pleasurably behoove you to familiarize! Imo! 

[tkeith]

Fixed it @JSngry.  Syntax error.  🫣

[medjuck]

1 hour ago, felser said:

Cut 4 from this is what we are discussing then.  I have never checked out that album - my bad I guess?  Easily remedied on the used market.

I can't get the "Show more credits" to work. In case anyone else is as clueless as me: It's Fathead, Art Blakey, and Dr. John.  All three get writing credits for the song, which is a bit simple for my taste but I love Mac's piano solo. He does sing on some cuts and on one Blakey plays piano!

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, tkeith said:

Fixed it @JSngry.  Syntax error.  🫣

TYTK! 

[Dan Gould]

1 hour ago, medjuck said:

I can't get the "Show more credits" to work. In case anyone else is as clueless as me: It's Fathead, Art Blakey, and Dr. John.  All three get writing credits for the song, which is a bit simple for my taste but I love Mac's piano solo. He does sing on some cuts and on one Blakey plays piano!

Blakey croaks out "For All We Know" too - not exactly a highlight.

I'll post my guesses later but on this one I guessed Sanborn. Hurts to realize that it proves the old presumption that there will be a BFT track that I have but don't recognize.

[felser]

5 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

 Hurts to realize that it proves the old presumption that there will be a BFT track that I have but don't recognize.

I sometimes hit several of those on a single BFT.

[Dan Gould]

@DrJ  Is this an Eddie Jefferson lyric? Cliff Jordan on soprano? Honestly I am not even sure he recorded with soprano but that's what my notes say so ... 3 stars,

@JSngry Hawk? Byas? Great whoever it is. 10 stars.

@felser  Well an interesting Felser in that I didn't start hating it until that god-awful sax solo.  No stars and NEXT!

@Joe Back to @JSngry quality for me.  I swear it sounds like the start of a Jackie Mac or Tina Brooks composition, but it resolves differently. No guesses but like this a lot. 9 stars.

@Ken Dryden Duke tune, different instrumentation for sure. Very curious on the saxophone. 3.5 stars.

@medjuck I told Joe that I thought it might be Sanborn.  Certainly more up my alley than his but while I have the CD that's been ID'd, it's not the greatest disc, with the Blakey vocal being painful. 

@mikeweil Spanish vocalist on Night in Tunisia - liked the vocalist OK until the scatting, liked the band more overall. This one came with metadata but it wouldn't have helped me anyway.  3 stars.

@mjzee Another good 'un, with metadata but I wouldn't have ID'd anyway. 3.5 stars.

@tkeith Just never gonna be my thing.  -1 star (to differentiate from Felser's contribution.

 

Thanks to all, there are some real gems here I will look forward to their reveal (Jsngry, Joe, Mjzee, with DrJ and Ken Dryden fitting in there too.

22 hours ago, JSngry said:

Some good stuff on this one!

@Dan Gould This is from the post-Lyle Mays style of big band writing, which is a good thing. I hear Pete Christlieb on tenor, but as far as soloists, that's it. Definitely sounds like a studio-savvy affair, flawlessly recorded, and as a result you can really hear the densities of the voicings. A long time ago I would have railed againstthis type of thing, but I'm a lot older now and appreciate it very much.

 

 

I figured you would spot Christlieb (who is best known soloist or bandmember) and thought I recalled that you didn't care for him that much.  Glad you liked it overall though. I'll refrain from saying anything that might get it ID'd until later in the month.

[JSngry]

@Dan Gould Neither Hawk nor Byas, and for anybody listening more than once, give the drummer some attention too!!! 

[randyhersom]

@DanGould Big band with some tasteful wah-wah guitar, so mid 60s or later, probably not 90s or later.
@DrJ  Thought of Westbrooks, but remember comments that Kate's voice was edgy, and this one isn't.  Then I thought of Herbie's The River, but those don't sound like Joni lyrics
@Felser I think the tenor is Billy Harper (high praise).
@Joe This segued into the next tune so well I had to wonder if you planned it!.  Jimmy Guiffre?
@JSngry The tradition in all it's vitality.  Illinois Jacquet?
@KenDryden Swinging the pipe organ behind a primo tenor.
@medjuk  Is that cowbell?  Infectious rhythm and alto lead voice.
@mikeweil Brazilian sounding treatment of classic bebop (Well You Needn't??  no.  Night in Tunisia?? I don't think so .... aaarggh!)
@mjzee Not the tune by this name, but it is Kinda Dukish
@tkeith Fiddle and bone sharing the spotlight.  Billy Bang?

[JSngry]

@randyhersomYes on both counts! 

[felser]

2 hours ago, randyhersom said:

@Felser I think the tenor is Billy Harper (high praise).
 

It is Billy, and I agree, high praise due, regardless of what @Dan Gould thinks!

@felser  Well an interesting Felser in that I didn't start hating it until that god-awful sax solo.  No stars and NEXT!

@Dan Gould  That's my favorite musician in the history of the world, he is to me what Percy France is to you, so ouch!  We DO have different tastes! 😀

[Dan Gould]

5 minutes ago, felser said:

It is Billy, and I agree, high praise due, regardless of what @Dan Gould thinks!

I accept that others have different opinions but I find the tone harsh and in fact, my original notes, written last month, said "U-G-L-Y".  I just didn't write it that way I thought 0 stars got the point across.

2 hours ago, randyhersom said:

@DanGould Big band with some tasteful wah-wah guitar, so mid 60s or later, probably not 90s or later.
 

Your dating is incorrect.

[JSngry]

Tone-wise, Billy Harper is the rightful, logical, and legitimate heir/successor to Booker Ervin. 

[Dan Gould]

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

Tone-wise, Billy Harper is the rightful, logical, and legitimate heir/successor to Booker Ervin. 

I actually thought specifically about Booker Ervin after my last post about Harper.

For me, It's Ervin mixed with Coltrane/Sanders to great detriment.  Sorry my 2c. 

[mjzee]

@DrJ An anti-male song to start the BFT.  One wonders why she even wants him to say yes - would he suddenly seem that much better to her?  She should heed the words of Mark Knopfler: "When you point your finger 'cause your plans fell through, you got 3 more fingers pointing back at you."  The band is perfectly fine, but they're in service to the singer.  Singer's OK: she enunciates well and hits all the notes.

@Dan Gould A larger band.  Funky!  Or at least as funky as a large band can be.  Is this the Fathead/Dr. John/Blakey tune people are talking about?  I don't know that Blakey can drum like this, so I'd say no.  It sounds a little like a TV show's closing credits.

@JSngry Lullaby of the Leaves.  One of my favorite tunes as a jazz vehicle.  A saxophonist in the Dexter/Johnny Griffin school.  Trumpeter has a quaver a la Roy Eldridge.  In fact, I'm going to guess it's Roy - he gets paid by the high note.

@felser I saw some talk about Billy Harper, so I'll guess it's him.  He's doing his Coltrane/McCoy thing, but at least it's restrained.

@mjzee What is this shit?  Thank god it's short.

@medjuck Cowbell!  For some reason, I noticed the bassist adding interest to what's otherwise an inoffensive track.

@tkeith Trombone & violin front line?!?  All over the place stylistically, but it sounds like they're having a good woozy time.  Reminiscent of something Tomasz Stanko would do, but with a more insistent rhythm section.  I enjoyed this.

@Joe Classic early-60's Blue Note style.  Laid back yet swinging.  Pianist sounds like Horace or Sonny Clark.  Horace Parlan?  Trombone is funny.  Is this a Dave Bailey record?  Wait, clarinet too?  Now I'm stumped.  Enjoyable tho.

@mikeweil A Night In Tunisia, maybe sung in Tunisian.  Singer has a nice sense of rhythm, nice voice too.  Saxist could be Fathead.  Pianist runs out of ideas.

@Ken Dryden Sax and organ duo.  Duke's Just A-Sittin' And A Rockin'.  Roller rink organ is fun, channeling the spirit of Fats Waller,  Saxist is good - sounds like he's testifying in church.  Great end to the BFT.

Thanks all!  And thanks Dan for putting it all together!

[JSngry]

@mjzee Right song, right trumpeter. Wrong pay scale.

Hoping that somebody at some point notices the rhythm section, the drummer in particular. 

 

[felser]

@felser I saw some talk about Billy Harper, so I'll guess it's him.  He's doing his Coltrane/McCoy thing, but at least it's restrained.

@mjzee I didn't realize that a Coltrane/McCoy thing was bad!  Yes, it's Harper.

[mjzee]

14 minutes ago, felser said:

I didn't realize that a Coltrane/McCoy thing was bad!  Yes, it's Harper.

I've often thought that Harper needs other influences besides Coltrane/McCoy - he just enters that bag too easily and stays there.

[JSngry]

Strong church thing in Billy's music. Tongues of fire. 

[felser]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Strong church thing in Billy's music. Tongues of fire. 

Amen.  And he acknowledges that in many of his song titles.  For instance, here is the track listing from 'The Believer':

A        Is It Not True, Simply Because You Cannot Believe It?
B1        I Do Believe
B2        Believe, For It Is True!

 IIRC, his father was a Baptist pastor.

Edited March 3 by felser

[DrJ]

Alrighty:

@Dan Gould - Starting off I wanted to love this, it had promise out of the gate, and I like larger ensembles, but it didn't deliver for me and felt sort of aimlessly funky. The electric bass is something I often enjoy in jazz, but not here, didn't like the sound the player gets. Trumpet solo now, and going nowhere fast. Sounding a bit TV soundtrack-y. Piano solo, again, just not taking me someplace - riffs, not ideas. No idea who any of the musicians are. AFTER: I see Pete Christlieb is the tenor, and he's a player I often enjoy but here even he sounds a bit generic. less aggressive than usual. All in all, I kept wanting something to sound less predictable, more edgy. But I admit it might be more of a grower, not ready to dismiss it just yet.

@JSngry - "Lullaby of the Leaves" - such a great tune. And I'm loving this rendition, definitely one of my favorite 2-3 tracks on this BFT. Tenor sounded right away like Buddy Tate, and then the trumpet with the focus on middle register early on and the growl in the sound made me think of Ruby Braff, though I ended up doubting myself on that when he started flying high. So I'm not 100% sure, but I'm guessing perhaps this album from 1967 with Tate and Braff:   https://www.discogs.com/release/8411075-Ruby-Braff-Buddy-Tate-With-The-Newport-All-Stars   . The rhythm section, yes, great stuff - I was thinking Jo Jones on drums but if my guess on the album is right, clearly not.

@felser - Sounded South African out of the gate, then settled into that very Coltrane/Tyner vibe. A quick word of praise for the bassist - nice movement underneath, punching to the fore at just the right moments!  Man that reverb on the recording though, yikes. Must be late 1960s/early 1970s. Pianist soloing now, and he's wearing Tyner’s dirty drawers - to the point of slavish imitation, wow. Things start to get a lot better with the tasty trombone solo and the even better tenor solo. Bennie Maupin? This was the most frustrating track, I felt like I knew it, that I have heard it plenty times before but couldn't place it. AFTER: Ah, I see now, Billy Harper, Sir Galahad, that makes sense, dang! I didn't realize until this BFT how much George Cables was in thrall to Tyner early on! Great track overall, from a classic album.

@mjzee - No real idea who this is, but seems clearly to be coming out of the Basie with Pres bag - so perhaps the Vice Pres, Paul Quinichette? I liked it quite a lot, regardless, eager for the reveal on this one.

@medjuck - Alto sax, I think. Fathead Newman or Hank Crawford or someone like that? Like the piano a lot, star of this show. Well recorded session. The tune ultimately didn’t knock me out, felt a bit pop jazzy, neither fish nor fowl. 

@tkeith - I like the trombone/violin (I think? Or viola?) combo, very nice complimentary sounds- and now I wonder why that combo isn't used more in jazz. However, that's the only love I could find for this one. The piece grated very quickly. My wife said "make it stop," so I did.

@Joe - Absolutely loved this. Sax was a little reedy for my taste but good ideas - I kept wanting to say Lockjaw but I know it wasn't. Trombone - sounded like an Ellingtonian, but I'm not sure which one. Trumpet absolutely has to be Clark Terry, that signature sound - so that too strengthens the Ellington linkage idea. When the piano comes to fore, it's immediately clear this was a classic era Rudy Van Gelder recording, I'd bet the farm on that, but that's hardly going to help me with identifying the album. Clarinet - nice sound - and I’m thinking Ellingtonian again. Not sure who though. The track did peter out a bit near the end, went on a little longer than it needed to. Hard to say who the leader was, sounds like a loose one-off. But I'll be looking for this one once the reveal happens, overall very enjoyable.

@mikeweil - "A Night in Tunisia" of course. I'll say up front this woman can really sing, but also that her approach just doesn't do much for me, very straight and a bit on the nose. So I didn't really dig this for about the first half, and then midway it took flight when the piano solo hit. Wow - incredible facility on the instrument. Overall this seemed clearly to be someone coming from "Latin" music interpreting jazz rather than the other way around, which is totally fine by me, but again the singer as gifted as she is wasn't to my taste at least on first exposure. 

@Ken Dryden - "Just a Sittin' and a Rockin'" - tenor sax and pipe organ duo, done rather straight. Okee dokee. Not a lot more to say, that's probably too much already! I could see this one growing on me, though, and the expansive sound of the organ is really well-captured. 
 

Well this was fun, nice to return to the BFT, and I appreciate all the interesting choices! 

Edited March 4 by DrJ

[DrJ]

Regarding my track:

@Dan Gould - not Eddie Jefferson lyrics, rather the singer wrote them. And not Cliff Jordan on soprano. This is more contemporary/recent. The composer of the music for this piece - originally an instrumental from a classic jazz album led by a rather famous gent you will be able to identify from the comment @JSngry made - was apparently taken enough by the words she wrote to give her a co-writing credit, they likely resonated with his rather philosophical bent.

@mjzee - Interesting reaction you had there, but this is definitely not a man-hating track, and the words are not about relationships at all in fact. May want to take another listen to the lyrics, which are universally applicable at the individual level.

@felser - glad you enjoyed it, and yeah, the piano, dang - I've come to love this whole album over the past couple of years, and everyone's contributions, but the piano is really great, and not a well known player. The liner notes for this disc were written by Jack Waltrath (who is not on the recording himself), and he too calls out the pianist as someone who he'd never heard of but who turned his head with his playing throughout. 

Edited March 4 by DrJ

[Dan Gould]

4 hours ago, DrJ said:

 

Well this was fun, nice to return to the BFT, and I appreciate all the interesting choices! 

Glad you came back for our celebration of your creation. Would be great if  you had time to hang out more, I had forgotten how thorough a commenter you were on BFT tracks back in the day. 

[JSngry]

@DrJ Right song and right drummer. Welcome back!