Yusef Lateef's Opening Note on Judyful

[Stevie Mclean]

On the wonderful album "Images of Curtis Fuller", there is a song "Judyful", on which Teef opens his solo with this blaring note that I can only describe as a train horn! he does it another time later on as well. I just love how it sounds and it absolutely commands anybody within earshot to pay attention. Can anybody hip me to what he is actually doing with the saxophone to achieve this effect? I assume some kind of overblowing / loose embouchure to get extra vibration out of the reed?

[JSngry]

Sound like he's overblowing the low (tenor) C to get the overtones as a multiphonic.

It's done by a combination of embouchure and air column. It's also the result of studied application of both. Overtone control to this degree is one of the more "advanced/basics" of developing a really strong embouchure and breath control. 

Simply put, any note on the horn will have overtones that can be provided by overblowing and/or redirecting the airflow by constricting the embouchure. Learn to control that and then you can get additional overtones to speak together as a multiphonic.

Now, there might be an alternate fingering involved, something to split the fundamental up into the overtones. I myself can't speak with any certainty about this other than to say that when dealing with the low tones, pretty anything, especially right hand side keys, can be used to disrupt the airflow and therefore the fundamental.

This begins as a basic matter of saxophone sound production but it really all comes down to the acoustic properties of a conical bore instrument and the nodes for each note. For that, I can't help you! 

[Stevie Mclean]

17 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Sound like he's overblowing the low (tenor) C to get the overtones as a multiphonic.

It's done by a combination of embouchure and air column. It's also the result of studied application of both. Overtone control to this degree is one of the more "advanced/basics" of developing a really strong embouchure and breath control. 

Simply put, any note on the horn will have overtones that can be provided by overblowing and/or redirecting the airflow by constricting the embouchure. Learn to control that and then you can get additional overtones to speak together as a multiphonic.

Now, there might be an alternate fingering involved, something to split the fundamental up into the overtones. I myself can't speak with any certainty about this other than to say that when dealing with the low tones, pretty anything, especially right hand side keys, can be used to disrupt the airflow and therefore the fundamental.

This begins as a basic matter of saxophone sound production but it really all comes down to the acoustic properties of a conical bore instrument and the nodes for each note. For that, I can't help you! 

Thanks for the detailed explanation Jim, exactly what I was looking for. I love all the creative sounds Teef gets out of his instruments, like his humming while playing flute thing that also confounds me!

[jazzbo]

RVG sure managed to give that note weight and energy!

[JSngry]

7 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

RVG sure managed to give that note weight and energy!

Yusef made that note like that. Kudos to Rudy for not fucking it up!

Yusef really REALLY understood the deep mechanics of the sounds of all of his instruments. He doesn't get enough credit for that, imo. Not just for what he did, but also just how damn well he did it. The tone was always full from top to bottom, the timbres were always even, and the pitch was always perfect.

The guy was totally a virtuoso of sound. Totally. 

[jazzbo]

I don't disagree, and I'm one of Teefski's biggest fans, but on the original RVG mastering that note is blasted out--later versions have tamed its entrance. RVG intended to accent that sonic arrival.

Edited February 10 by jazzbo

[JSngry]

So he did fuck it up then, if it was distorted or otherwise not accurate 

That note was meant to be a scientific honk. Yusef made it the way he wanted it. That was his job. Rudy's job was to capture it the way that Yusef played it and the get it into a record. 

Mikes are stupid, actually. No matter how good they are, they'll only be as good as the people operating them on the other end.

Or are you saying that RVG didn't fuck it up and that subsequent mastering have done so by taming it? If so, then shame on them! 

[jazzbo]

Rudy's then job was to capture it and finally present it the way the producer wished most likely.

I am in fact saying that imo others (or RVG for another producer later) tamed the entry in comparison to the earlier mastering.

Edited February 11 by jazzbo

[Dub Modal]

Interesting convo about this re modern remastering choices and preferences vs original intent. This can’t be the only note or song affected.