Mingus Takes Manhattan - Complete Birdland Dates (legit release)

[mjzee]

I learned about this on the Hoffman board.  Vinyl only, limited to 1,000 copies.  The performances have previously been bootlegged; this is released with permission of the Mingus estate.  Great music.

Box Set. Mingus Takes Manhattan collects together Charles Mingus' run of dates at the world famous Birdland, New York from 1961-1962, released here officially for the first time ever in conjunction with the Mingus Estate. The original reel-to-reel tapes used to record the radio broadcasts were tracked down, cleaned and remastered especially for this release. Previously only issued in bootleg form, the recordings enclosed feature Mingus in the midst of a highly creative spell. Alternating between bass and piano during these sets features a rotating band of heavy hitters including Yusef Lateef, Roland Kirk, Jaki Byard, Booker Ervin, Pepper Adams as well as Mingus mainstays Charles McPherson, Dannie Richmond and others. Located in a basement in the Bronx, these incredibly rare recordings are given their best sonic outing since 1962. At the centre of this package is a 44-page book with a foreword from Christian McBride, a highly informative 15,000 word essay from Brian Priestley and a new interview with Charles McPherson, giving context and inside information to the dates and the time. All of this is illustrated with slick design and rare photographs and ephemera throughout.

 

 

 

[mjazzg]

I've been very close to buying that this week. I have some doubts about the sound quality, as previous releases of the material have had poor sq, but that video helps to allay them. 

Anyone got it already? And yes I do realise that as an LP only release many won't be looking to

Edited February 3 by mjazzg

[sidewinder]

I wonder what Sue Mingus would have had to say about this?

Interesting for sure but LP only for a set of airchecks seems a bit ridiculous. Have we reverted back to the days of the Beppo and Ozone labels?

Rant over !

Edited February 3 by sidewinder

[tranemonk]

WTF is it with these vinyl-only releases of stuff that's never been out before?... It's bugging me for those of us who don't want to go back to 1972....

[jazzbo]

What bugs me most is the cost. . . which drives the releases I bet, in the form of profit. I could be wrong. I just won't pay that much . . . I like LPs but if I can get three or four cds for the cost of an LP. . . I will.

Maybe this will come out on cd one day, I'd like to see what improvement may have been made over the bootlegs.

 

[JSngry]

Sue used to "rally" around beating the bootleggers, but a very limited edition on a niche format at a too-high price point kind makes me want to pull out my copies and share the files with the world.

I won't, but this release sort of implicitly cedes victory to the "bootleggers" (I have never paid for any copies of this material btw)

[david weiss]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Sue used to "rally" around beating the bootleggers, but a very limited edition on a niche format at a too-high price point kind makes me want to pull out my copies and share the files with the world.

I won't, but this release sort of implicitly cedes victory to the "bootleggers" (I have never paid for any copies of this material btw)

Well, they say it is a release in conjunction with the Mingus Estate so they do have a clearance. 

I think in these cases, it is the money grab first (the overpriced vinyl release pays for and justifies the release) and then in future, especially if the vinyl sells out, there will be a digital release.....

[Ken Dryden]

Likewise, this is an interesting set, but priced higher than I would prefer to pay. 

[mjzee]

What I found most interesting is the following: "The original reel-to-reel tapes used to record the radio broadcasts were tracked down, cleaned and remastered especially for this release...Located in a basement in the Bronx, these incredibly rare recordings are given their best sonic outing since 1962..."

Does this mean they've struck a deal with Boris Rose's daughter?  And could that imply more releases from the Rose archives may be forthcoming?

 

[AllenLowe]

The price is listed on one web site as $154? WTF? This is stupid shit. The sound is obviously much improved, from that video, and I would love to have this but unless it comes out on CD at a reasonable effin' price, I will have to wait for the bootleg....but to quote Richard Nixon, that would be wrong, that's for sure. But I do think this pricing is unconscionable.

Worst of all I cannot forgive bad writing on something as major as this:

"Located in a basement in the Bronx, the original reel-to-reel tapes have been cleaned and remastered."

Sounds like they did the restoration in the basement and that the tapes are still there, because according to this that's where they are located. Should be "Previously located in a basement in the Bronx, the tapes were removed and restored to optimum sound quality."

Amateur night.

Edited February 4 by AllenLowe

[Ken Dryden]

I was wondering if Boris Rose's daughter ever found someone to buy or license any of her father's tapes after he died.

I haven't compared the tracklists, but it looks similar to this 3 CD Hi Hat bootleg:

 

[AllenLowe]

44 minutes ago, Ken Dryden said:

I was wondering if Boris Rose's daughter ever found someone to buy or license any of her father's tapes after he died.

I haven't compared the tracklists, but it looks similar to this 3 CD Hi Hat bootleg:

 

but judging from that one sample, it is radically improved sonically.

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, david weiss said:

Well, they say it is a release in conjunction with the Mingus Estate... 

Who is that these days? 

[Ken Dryden]

Maybe his son is running it? You have to admire Susan MIngus' dedication to promoting her husband's legacy. I imagine that she didn't tolerate b.s. from anyone, any more than he did.

Nearly $18 for tracked shipping on this set, you would think they could throw in free shipping at nearly $39 per LP.

 

[david weiss]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

Who is that these days? 

I actually don't know specifically. 

Jazz Workshop had/has a staff and I'm sure Sue left specific instructions about the continuation of the Mingus Estate. 

The Mingus Big Band is still working as well so I assume it's still pretty much business as usual with a staff that knows what they are doing. 

[Gheorghe]

8 hours ago, david weiss said:

Well, they say it is a release in conjunction with the Mingus Estate so they do have a clearance. 

I think in these cases, it is the money grab first (the overpriced vinyl release pays for and justifies the release) and then in future, especially if the vinyl sells out, there will be a digital release.....

I must admit that ......as is the case with almost all historic jazz albums....I´m more a kind of "selecting fan", and never had the urge to buy all what is out from a certain musician.

Mingus had an enormous influence on me becoming a musician. When I was in my early teens, the 3-LP set of Mingus with Dolphy and Byard etc. in Paris 1964 was my second to first listening experience of jazz and it has remained one of the most important records to me. And then the times I saw the Mingus Band live from 1975-77 or 78 or what it was, with Walrath, Ricky Ford and so. 

I have heard one from the earlier 60´s on which Mingus often leaves the bass and plays piano and don´t like it as much as the records where he leads the band from the bass. 

That´s what Mingus always has been for me: One of the greatest composers of the 20th Century, and one of the most exiting artists on his instrument, the bass, if not the most exiting. 

There is so much energy in re-issuing or redischovering of very old stuff, but very little effort to issue more concert recordings from the bands with Adams/Pullen and Ford/Neloms.. The studio albums of Cumbia and Three Four Shades of Blues are too overproduced, the quintet versions I witnessed live sounded much better.....more energy, more emotion, more of Richmond....

[gvopedz]

15 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

The price is listed on one web site as $154? WTF?

 

Some of the people who release LPs (or albums) believe that collectors of jazz music have an above-average income.

[sonnymax]

17 minutes ago, gvopedz said:

Some of the people who release LPs (or albums) believe that collectors of jazz music have an above-average income.

And you disagree with this belief?

[Dan Gould]

12 minutes ago, sonnymax said:

And you disagree with this belief?

He didn't define "collectors of jazz" but I've been an obsessive collector for 30+ years and never risen above any definition of 'average' income.  So right there your presumption that this belief is accurate fails.

And, if jazz is attracting younger people at all you inevitably have a large proportion of less than average means. If younger people only purchase new recordings (or stream them) then perhaps the collectors are all made up of the older, more affluent cohort. But that's not likely.

[sonnymax]

Participation in jazz correlates strongly with education and income. Nearly half of those attending jazz performances, for example, are college graduates; over three-quarters have had some college education. Those earning more than $50,000 a year (≈ $98,700 in 2024) are more than twice as likely to attend performances as those earning less than $25,000 (≈ $50,320 in 2024). In this respect, the audience profile for jazz resembles that of the other benchmark arts activities, for which the highest rates of participation are found among the most affluent and highly educated. “Jazz in America: Who's Listening?” National Endowment for the Art, 1995

Jazz audiences are predominantly affluent, well educated, young, and ethnically diverse. “A Literature Review of Research on Jazz Audience” Jazz Arts Group, 2010

Edited February 5 by sonnymax

[ghost of miles]

Hard pass on a high-priced vinyl-only set.  I'd be all in on a legit CD release.  Grateful that the new Phil Ranelin set came out on CD--a grand total of $21 at my local record store, including tax.  The vinyl version would have run me $125 (and I wouldn't have bought it).  It's insane, ridiculous, and a few other adjectives as well.  

Edited February 5 by ghost of miles

[clifford_thornton]

I have the BAT LP set from the 1980s. Excellent music, not the greatest sound but I've heard worse.

There was a CD bootleg issue or two at one point as well.

I guess I could ask Eric if he is running the estate but it seems to me he is highly focused on his own music, so I'd be surprised. 

[ejp626]

On 2/4/2024 at 3:33 PM, tranemonk said:

WTF is it with these vinyl-only releases of stuff that's never been out before?... It's bugging me for those of us who don't want to go back to 1972....

Agreed.  It is a stupid trend that I don't feel like supporting or even giving in to...

[felser]

Above average income does not equal a bottomless well of financial resources.  Hard pass here, too.

 

[mjzee]

I own one of those 3 CD boots, and am very happy with it.  No desire to buy an LP box set and pay that astronomical price.  If the main allure of the LP box (other than improved sound quality) is that it's licensed from the Mingus estate, then just tell me where I can send a $20 bill directly to the estate as royalties for owning the CD set.