Amplifiers & Big Bands

[Bol]

I never really liked big band jazz, but a new amplifier is prompting me to reconsider.

I moved from the US to the UK seven years ago, and brought with me an old Sony amplifier from the 1980's that my sister had given me when she upgraded.  I had to use an electricity converter to use it here in the UK.  As a Christmas present to myself, I bought a much better amplifier -- Quad Vena II integrated amplifier -- and I now no longer need to use a converter!

The chief benefit is the clarity of sound as well as added warmth.  I was listening to the first Mosaic Lester Young set the other day, and big band music all of sudden made sense to me.  And Lester Young never sounded so good!!!  Compared to what I am hearing now, before, big band music just sounded like a sludge of sounds.

I am no audiophile, and I never thought an amplifier could make such a big difference.  Now, I am thinking about a new CD player!  I guess this is a dangerous road to travel on...

Edited January 16 by Bol

[mikeweil]

Dangerous for your bank account, for sure.

[jazzbo]

Good to hear from you Bol. Yes, it all makes a difference. When I last saw you I was at the beginning of my audio journey and making discoveries such as you have. It can be an expensive endeavor, but the sonic rewards can be really something.

[JSngry]

I don't know that for orchestral music it's advised to let your equipment do your listening for you. So much of this music impacted its worlds in relatively lo-fi environs.

I mean, it's good that the music no longer sounded "like a sludge of sounds",, but it likely never did, except in your mind.

Whatever. Plunge ahead! It's a very deep body of work, past, present, and future! 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I'm a bit happy that I was never ever able to "hear" an amplifier or speaker wires or RCA interconnects or AC line cords. I tried tube amplification a few years ago because I always wanted to, but alas, I didn't hear any difference between those tube amps & the solid state amps they replaced. Plus, they were hot as hell.

The only thing I futzed with over the years that made a huge difference to what I heard was speakers & once I settled on B&W speakers, I haven't had to change much. I'll probably have to re-cap the crossovers at some point, but with my failing hearing, that day may never come.

Having said this, there are possible electrical reasons that the old 80's era Sony amplifier didn't sound as good as your new amp. Older electronics, particularly from the early to late 80's, were susceptible to bad caps. These caps often fail slowly and if they are in an electrical path that handles audio, it could affect the sound... scratch that... it likely will affect the sound. Caps are used as filters. They filter noise in particular. If you have a filter cap start to fail, it could allow more noise into the circuit. There are other possible failures going on like a failing transformer or even custom ICs.

If you happen to be Facebook friends with our forum's host, Jim Alfredson, he has been repairing old electronics as part of his piano tuning business and he posts videos showing all kinds of issues he's been finding with these 80's era synths/amps/preamps. Bad caps, fried traces, cracked boards, cold solder joints, bad op amps, bad ICs... The list goes on & on.

[mjazzg]

I recently upgraded my amplifier from a 90s Denon and could hear the difference in separation and depth of soundstage immediately which makes a big difference to listening to larger ensembles, but not only them.

I'm not in a position to upgrade my whole system regularly, my previous upgrade was my turntable 3 years ago, but when I can afford to I do. I've always been pleased with the results.

Edited January 17 by mjazzg

[Rabshakeh]

4 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

I recently upgraded my amplifier from a 90s Denon and could hear the difference in separation and depth of soundstage immediately which makes a big difference to listening to larger ensembles, but not only them.

I'm not in a position to upgrade my whole system regularly, my previous upgrade was my turntable 3 years ago, but when I can afford to I do. I've always been pleased with the results.

What did you go to? 

[mjazzg]

5 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

What did you go to? 

Cambridge AXR100D

[Rabshakeh]

29 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

Cambridge AXR100D

Oh okay. I've got an older Cambridge model so not an obvious upgrade I guess. Thanks though.

I am quite disappointed with my current sound but lack the space to upgrade my speakers or the cash to justify it at the moment. 

Edited January 17 by Rabshakeh

[mjazzg]

15 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

Oh okay. I've got an older Cambridge model so not an obvious upgrade I guess. Thanks though.

I am quite disappointed with my current sound but lack the space to upgrade my speakers or the cash to justify it at the moment. 

I'm no audiophile as that purchase suggests, I spend too much on the music itself to afford higher specs.  It's doing the job very nicely though

[Bol]

On 1/16/2024 at 9:51 PM, jazzbo said:

Good to hear from you Bol. Yes, it all makes a difference. When I last saw you I was at the beginning of my audio journey and making discoveries such as you have. It can be an expensive endeavor, but the sonic rewards can be really something.

Hi Lon.  Good to hear from you too.  I remember your telling me about some of your upgrades.  None of it really made sense to me at the time, but now I understand.  I was chatting yesterday with a colleague who is a huge audiophile.  He told me that the next thing is cables!  That sounds less daunting and expensive than a new CD player, but who knows?  But I shall tread carefully.

On 1/17/2024 at 12:10 PM, bresna said:

If you happen to be Facebook friends with our forum's host, Jim Alfredson, he has been repairing old electronics as part of his piano tuning business and he posts videos showing all kinds of issues he's been finding with these 80's era synths/amps/preamps. Bad caps, fried traces, cracked boards, cold solder joints, bad op amps, bad ICs... The list goes on & on.

Thanks for the tip.  Alas, I don't do Facebook, and I also just got rid of the electricity converter, so I cannot really plug the old Sony amplifier in any more.  Most likely, the next time I travel to the US, I will bring the old amplifier with me and give it to someone.   

Edited January 18 by Bol

[Kevin Bresnahan]

42 minutes ago, Bol said:

Hi Lon.  Good to hear from you too.  I remember your telling me about some of your upgrades.  None of it really made sense to me at the time, but now I understand.  I was chatting yesterday with a colleague who is a huge audiophile.  He told me that the next thing is cables!  That sounds less daunting and expensive than a new CD player, but who knows?  But I shall tread carefully.

Cables are not usually inexpensive to be honest. Quite a few manufacturers sell them for thousands of dollars.

FWIW, it's extremely difficult to compare the differences in wires, cables & interconnects, as the time it takes to swap cables is usually several minutes. Studies have shown that human audio memory is not much good past 30 seconds which means most of us don't remember exactly how something sounded after a wire swap. Don't even get me going on people claiming to hear differences after hundreds of hours.

[sidewinder]

On 1/17/2024 at 12:10 PM, bresna said:

I'm a bit happy that I was never ever able to "hear" an amplifier or speaker wires or RCA interconnects or AC line cords. I tried tube amplification a few years ago because I always wanted to, but alas, I didn't hear any difference between those tube amps & the solid state amps they replaced. Plus, they were hot as hell.

The only thing I futzed with over the years that made a huge difference to what I heard was speakers & once I settled on B&W speakers, I haven't had to change much. I'll probably have to re-cap the crossovers at some point, but with my failing hearing, that day may never come.

Having said this, there are possible electrical reasons that the old 80's era Sony amplifier didn't sound as good as your new amp. Older electronics, particularly from the early to late 80's, were susceptible to bad caps. These caps often fail slowly and if they are in an electrical path that handles audio, it could affect the sound... scratch that... it likely will affect the sound. Caps are used as filters. They filter noise in particular. If you have a filter cap start to fail, it could allow more noise into the circuit. There are other possible failures going on like a failing transformer or even custom ICs.

If you happen to be Facebook friends with our forum's host, Jim Alfredson, he has been repairing old electronics as part of his piano tuning business and he posts videos showing all kinds of issues he's been finding with these 80's era synths/amps/preamps. Bad caps, fried traces, cracked boards, cold solder joints, bad op amps, bad ICs... The list goes on & on.

That's a very good point about caps, especially the big electrolytics. Most of my kit is Naim and the power supplies, in particular, need to be serviced every 10-12 years to change these out. Makes a big difference.

[Bluesnik]

On 1/17/2024 at 1:10 PM, Kevin Bresnahan said:

& once I settled on B&W speakers, I haven't had to change much

totally agree