Don Byas Mosaic set available for pre-order

[gmonahan]

On 10/29/2023 at 6:50 PM, medjuck said:

Can you give some examples? (I may be  jaded because of my age-- I bought a lot of Concord material when cds  were a new medium and didn't know there was still some unreleased material.)  

Sorry to be so long in answering this (I've been away for a few days). I wasn't so much thinking of the Concord label itself as much as all the labels and their material that Concord owns:  Prestige, Fantasy, Riverside, Limelight, Good Time, Contemporary, Milestone, Vanguard. The list goes on and on. We've often talked here about how nice it would be if Mosiac were able to mine that material.

 

[medjuck]

18 hours ago, gmonahan said:

Sorry to be so long in answering this (I've been away for a few days). I wasn't so much thinking of the Concord label itself as much as all the labels and their material that Concord owns:  Prestige, Fantasy, Riverside, Limelight, Good Time, Contemporary, Milestone, Vanguard. The list goes on and on. We've often talked here about how nice it would be if Mosiac were able to mine that material.

 

I was thinking of Riverside, Contemporary and Prestige but I didn't know they owned Vanguard.  There is a lot of material there never released in what I would call sensible packaging and organizing. 

[jazzbo]

According to wiki Concord obtained Vanguard in April 2015. I didn't know that til a few years ago. They certainly seem to have let it languish unused.

[JSngry]

Limelight? that was Mercury, then Verve, and is now(?) Universal.

[gmonahan]

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

Limelight? that was Mercury, then Verve, and is now(?) Universal.

Right. Got that one wrong. Sorry!

 

[Big Beat Steve]

14 hours ago, medjuck said:

I was thinking of Riverside, Contemporary and Prestige but I didn't know they owned Vanguard.  There is a lot of material there never released in what I would call sensible packaging and organizing. 

The (mostly John Hammond-produced) 50s mainstream sessions on Vanguard? There were at least two major reissue series that I personally found comparatively sensibly programmed and packaged. 

Example:

https://www.discogs.com/release/7100734-Vic-Dickenson-Vic-Dickenson-Septet
This was a UK reissue but came with various covers and countries of origin (see listing under the above link) and was re-reissued not long after in the UK in the Vogue Jazz Double series distributed by Pye :
https://www.discogs.com/release/4045920-Vic-Dickenson-The-Essential-Vic-Dickenson

This BTW was one of the blatant cases of totally different covers and artwork where a buyer too far from home to check (like me ) can be lured into thinking he doesn't own it yet. So after two trips to London in the 90s I ended up with copies of both of the above (took me a while to pass on the Vogue/Pye reissue).

There were plenty of other mid-50s Vanguard releases reissued in the RCA-distributed series. But as they originated in the UK they may not have made it into too many US shops at the time.

[miles65]

I have compiled a list of the missing tracks and sessions. This is not a discography but a survey there are many more issues of these recordings. I chose to mention Cd's that have complete sessions often Classics combined with Neatwork. The dates are European style.

Tracks missing from sessions Don Byas Mosaic set:

12-9-1944 Hot Lips Page Savoy

Lips blues  Classics 809 Hot Lips Page 1940-1944

Blooey idem

Blooey Neatwork RP2064 Hot Lips Page 1937-1949

18-9-1944 Buck Ram’s All Stars Savoy

Morning mist Classics 819 Cozy Cole 1944

Ramsession idem

21-11-1944 Cozy Cole and his orchestra Continental

Memories of You Classics 865 Cozy Cole 1944-1945

When day is done idem

The beat idem

4-1-1945 Clyde Hart’s All Stars Continental

I want every bit of it Classics 888 Dizzy Gillespie 1945

That’s the blues idem

Dream of you idem

9-1-1945 Dizzy Gillespie Sextet Manor

I can’t get started Classics 888 Dizzy Gillespie 1945

26-2-1945 Timmie Rodgers & His Orchestra Regis

A good deal Classics 923 Benny Carter and his Orchestra 1943-1946

27-2-1945 Savannah Churchill and her Orchestra Manor

Daddy daddy Classics 923 Benny Carter and his Orchestra 1943-1946

19-3-1945 Cozy Cole Guild

Stompin’ at the Savoy Classics 865 Cozy Cole 1944-1945

Dat’s love idem

April 1945 Cozy Cole Guild

Strictly drums Classics 865 Cozy Cole 1944-1945

Night wind idem

Why regret idem

Now’s the time idem

September 1945 Hot Lips Page Continental

Corsicana Classics 950 Hot Lips Page 1944-1946

Sunset blues idem

Big trees blues idem

Florida blues idem

November-December 1945 Earl Bostic Majestic

The man I love Classics 5005 Earl Bostic 1945-1948

The major and the minor idem

7-1-1946 Benny Carter DeLuxe

Who’s sorry now? Classics 923 Benny Carter 1943-1946

8-1-1946 Benny Carter DeLuxe

I’m the caring kind Classics 923 Benny Carter 1943-1946 and Classics 1020 Maxine Sullivan 1941-1946

Looking for a boy idem

29-1-1946 Don Redman Pick-up

Midnight mood  Classics 24 Complementary tracks

Carrie Mae blues idem

The sessions not included:

12-2-1944 Albert Ammons Commodore 4 master takes on Classics 927 Albert Ammons 1939-1946. Complete session on Mosaic MR23-128 (LP) The complete Commodore jazz recordings vol. 2 and CD Commodore 824297 Boogie Woogie and the Blues.

16-2-1944 Coleman Hawkins Apollo Classics 807 Coleman Hawkins 1943-1944

22-2-1944 Coleman Hawkins Apollo Classics 842 Coleman Hawkins 1944

2-5-1944 Eddie Haywood Signature Classics 947 Eddie Heywood 1944

24-5-1944 Coleman Hawkins Keynote 4 master takes on Classics 842 Coleman Hawkins 1944, alternate take on Neatwork RP 2011 Coleman Hawkins volume 2 1943-1944. Complete session on Mercury 830960-2 The essential Keynote vol. 6 the complete Coleman Hawkins

5-6-1944 Mary Lou Williams Ash Classics 814 Mary Lou Williams 1944

29-9-1944 Hot Lips Page Commodore 4 master takes on Classics 809 Hot Lips Page 1940-1944 The alternate takes (except the 2 composite takes) on Neatwork RP2064 Hot Lips Page 1937-1944

Complete session Mosaic MR23-128 (LP) The complete Commodore jazz recordings vol. 2

4-12-1944 Trummy Young Signature probably never issued

2-2-1945 Cozy Cole Keynote Classics 865 Cozy Cole 1944-1945

10-1-1946 Leonard Feather’s Esquire All American RCA Victor Bluebird 6757-2 Esquire’s All-American Hot Jazz Sessions

22-2-1946 Dizzy Gillespie RCA Victor 4 master takes on Classics 935 Dizzy Gillespie 1945-1946. Complete session on Masters of Jazz MJCD119 Dizzy Gillespie volume 6 1945-1946, Bluebird 66528-2 Complete RCA Victor Recordings

19-8-1946 Teddy Wilson Musicraft Classics 997 Teddy Wilson 1946

6-12-1946 Don Byas/Tyree Glenn/Peanuts Holland Swing Classics 1009 Don Byas 1946

 

Turned out I only miss the Albert Ammons alternates from 12-2-1944. This will be soon remedied. 

 

[medjuck]

8 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

The (mostly John Hammond-produced) 50s mainstream sessions on Vanguard? There were at least two major reissue series that I personally found comparatively sensibly programmed and packaged. 

Example:

https://www.discogs.com/release/7100734-Vic-Dickenson-Vic-Dickenson-Septet
This was a UK reissue but came with various covers and countries of origin (see listing under the above link) and was re-reissued not long after in the UK in the Vogue Jazz Double series distributed by Pye :
https://www.discogs.com/release/4045920-Vic-Dickenson-The-Essential-Vic-Dickenson

This BTW was one of the blatant cases of totally different covers and artwork where a buyer too far from home to check (like me ) can be lured into thinking he doesn't own it yet. So after two trips to London in the 90s I ended up with copies of both of the above (took me a while to pass on the Vogue/Pye reissue).

There were plenty of other mid-50s Vanguard releases reissued in the RCA-distributed series. But as they originated in the UK they may not have made it into too many US shops at the time.

IIRC in North America Vanguard was bought by the Lawrence Welk Music Group (!) who did a good job with the Spirtuals to Swing concerts but often put out cds that combined 2 Lps by leaving out some cuts.  

[clifford_thornton]

does anyone have the Hazevoet discographies? I have looked more at the later volume but the earlier one might have a lot of information that could help sort some of these discographical concerns out. I had them on a hard drive that bit the dust, unfortunately.

[Big Beat Steve]

56 minutes ago, medjuck said:

IIRC in North America Vanguard was bought by the Lawrence Welk Music Group (!) who did a good job with the Spirtuals to Swing concerts but often put out cds that combined 2 Lps by leaving out some cuts.  

This problem occurred elsewhere too, including some of the majors when they finally decided to reissue their twofers on CD.

But as far as coupling original LPs on a CD goes, overall that must have been in the day before CD reissuers a) decided to REALLY give the customers some value for their money, and b) dared to approach the 80-minute playing time limit that fits on a CD. I am far from sure that playing time systematically was above 40 minutes on 50s LPs.

[EKE BBB]

47 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

does anyone have the Hazevoet discographies? I have looked more at the later volume but the earlier one might have a lot of information that could help sort some of these discographical concerns out. I had them on a hard drive that bit the dust, unfortunately.

Paging @Caravan 

[T.D.]

This is a Mosaic website question that's probably been answered elsewhere, but...

I just preordered. I did not check the "Create Account" box. 

The order seems to have gone through, I got an acknowledgement e-mail and the credit card info seems to have been processed (in fact, it triggered a phone call from the fraud dept. of my card company. 🤔)

But the Mosaic site gave the diagnostic below. Seems to be a site bug, as the billing address had already been entered and the page viewed has no check box.

Has anyone else encountered this oddity? I've always considered the Mosaic website shaky (not to mention the contracted shipping company).

"Mosaic Customers
We launched this new website in early June 2021.
For security purposes this  new site does require new registration on this site. We apologize for the inconvenience.

After you enter billing details please check box after to create an account

Receipts/Passwords: Please check spam folder if not received.

Your order has been received and is being reviewed. Thank you for your business."

 

[Stompin at the Savoy]

After they redesigned the site all the original accounts got lost, so they offered the option to create a new account.  When that first happened I ordered without creating an account for some reason.  Everything worked fine.  The next time I created an account with the order.  Everything worked fine. 

Whenever you experience a problem with orders, just write to them.  They are very responsive.  There was one time I bought a set for a relative.  There was some delay and it looked like the relative might change address before the set arrived.  I wrote to Scott Wenzel and he expedited the shipment and personally took the package to the post office.  People complain about Mosaic but in what other record company would one of the principals write back to you and take care of your order? They don't have many people working there but since each release is typically only a few thousand sets (divided into a few pressings) they are able to give very good service to individual customers.

[Brad]

3 hours ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

After they redesigned the site all the original accounts got lost, so they offered the option to create a new account.  When that first happened I ordered without creating an account for some reason.  Everything worked fine.  The next time I created an account with the order.  Everything worked fine. 

Whenever you experience a problem with orders, just write to them.  They are very responsive.  There was one time I bought a set for a relative.  There was some delay and it looked like the relative might change address before the set arrived.  I wrote to Scott Wenzel and he expedited the shipment and personally took the package to the post office.  People complain about Mosaic but in what other record company would one of the principals write back to you and take care of your order? They don't have many people working there but since each release is typically only a few thousand sets (divided into a few pressings) they are able to give very good service to individual customers.

👍

[ianfaith]

Somehow missed this news until now. Pre-ordered immediately. Excited for this one!

[jazzcorner]

Riverside / Concord  RIV - 3602005 - issued 2014 - Volume 1 to 4

Edited November 9, 2023 by jazzcorner
new picture

[Kevin Bresnahan]

On 11/5/2023 at 1:56 PM, Stompin at the Savoy said:

After they redesigned the site all the original accounts got lost, so they offered the option to create a new account.  When that first happened I ordered without creating an account for some reason.  Everything worked fine.  The next time I created an account with the order.  Everything worked fine. 

Whenever you experience a problem with orders, just write to them.  They are very responsive.  There was one time I bought a set for a relative.  There was some delay and it looked like the relative might change address before the set arrived.  I wrote to Scott Wenzel and he expedited the shipment and personally took the package to the post office.  People complain about Mosaic but in what other record company would one of the principals write back to you and take care of your order? They don't have many people working there but since each release is typically only a few thousand sets (divided into a few pressings) they are able to give very good service to individual customers.

They actually don't have anyone "working there" anymore, since the company went fully remote a couple of years back. They farmed out the warehousing & shipping of their boxes years before that. I don't think Scott would have much access to stock these days, especially if the company they use for their warehouse is not local to Stamford.

[T.D.]

I asked about my order ("is it on the books?") by following instructions, "questions to info@mosaicrecords.com". No response in 3-1/2 days.

Yesterday I submitted an inquiry via the form on Mosaic website. Maybe that will do something.

Wouldn't think I'd have to bug the principals personally, and in any case their contact info is not apparent on the site.

[Added] Fred replied promptly to the inquiry submitted by "contact us" form on Mosaic website.

Edited November 9, 2023 by T.D.

[Stompin at the Savoy]

3 hours ago, bresna said:

They actually don't have anyone "working there" anymore, since the company went fully remote a couple of years back. They farmed out the warehousing & shipping of their boxes years before that. I don't think Scott would have much access to stock these days, especially if the company they use for their warehouse is not local to Stamford.

Say what you will, this was for the recent Paul Desmond set, and Scott did respond and did expedite the shipment.  I don't think Scott will mind if I quote his email here:

Quote

Hi [ ]

 

This is my error. We’re switching the way we place an order and long story short of it, we realized we are on back order with the Desmond.

 

HOWEVER, I do have a copy here in our offices and I will send this to [  ] tomorrow via UPS Next Day Air so he’ll get it on Thursday. OK?

 

Best

Scott

My point is not to define how service will take place or how they operate nowadays but rather that they really are pretty good about customer service if you give them a chance.  It's a very small outfit and they depend on a number of providers to print the books, make the boxes, manufacture the disks and mail them; I expect delays occasionally and am not bothered by that.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Stompin at the Savoy

[SwingItTrev]

Agh, I was about to order it, but the USD AUD exchange rate is killing me. Not sure I can justify $329 Australian.

[romualdo]

4 hours ago, SwingItTrev said:

Agh, I was about to order it, but the USD AUD exchange rate is killing me. Not sure I can justify $329 Australian.

yep, I'm in the same boat - don't think it'll be that much cheaper via Jazz Messengers

[sidewinder]

On 11/10/2023 at 9:46 AM, romualdo said:

yep, I'm in the same boat - don't think it'll be that much cheaper via Jazz Messengers

I've gone the Mosaic direct route for this one. The nice pre-release discount will offset the shipping charges to some extent. A nice Xmas present to self, when it arrives.

[tranemonk]

This is going to sound like a stupid and shallow question but.... Does anyone have a rough idea of how many/what percentage of short tunes (e.g., under 4-5 minutes) make up this set?

I have a hard time with tons of three-minute songs. I much prefer sets where the musicians stretch out. I know some of this is when the records were made. Due to technical issues, songs had to be short. I just have a hard time engaging with 5-7-10 CDs of anyone where most of what I'm hearing are short three-minute tunes.

I know the set is not out yet and the Mosaic discography doesn't tell me. Are we looking at 70% of the music being short three to four-minute songs or more like 20%? I'm guessing most of the tunes on likely to be short. Thanks.

[T.D.]

5 minutes ago, tranemonk said:

This is going to sound like a stupid and shallow question but.... Does anyone have a rough idea of how many/what percentage of short tunes (e.g., under 4-5 minutes) make up this set?

I have a hard time with tons of three-minute songs. I much prefer sets where the musicians stretch out. I know some of this is when the records were made. Due to technical issues, songs had to be short. I just have a hard time engaging with 5-7-10 CDs of anyone where most of what I'm hearing are short three-minute tunes.

I know the set is not out yet and the Mosaic discography doesn't tell me. Are we looking at 70% of the music being short three to four-minute songs or more like 20%? I'm guessing most of the tunes on likely to be short. Thanks.

Is it not clear from the Mosaic site?

https://www.mosaicrecords.com/product/classic-don-byas-sessions/

This set of Don Byas recordings from 1944 to 1946 are gathered from sessions either led by Byas or where there is a significant solo or obbligato by him in the role of a sideman. This historical set is divided into three sections: The Savoy and National sessions which are owned by the Concord Music Group; The Timme Rosenkrantz home discs; and miscellaneous 78 labels where no ownership has been determined. The collection includes 193 tunes, including 40 previously unissued anywhere.

193 tunes spread over 10 CDs...if you figure a generous 70 minutes playing time per CD the average tune runs 3:38.

So it must be almost all short tunes.

[JSngry]

Just listen to one CD a week. Or month. Fight the fatigue that way.

Remember, it's three years worth of records. Don't even try to listen to them all at once.