BFT 234 Link & Discussion

[Joe]

https://thomkeith.net/index.php/blindfold-tests/

Enjoy! I don't really have a preamble for these 13 tracks. Let's call it a miscellany.

[BillF]

Track 4: Kenny Clarke on drums?

[Joe]

11 minutes ago, BillF said:

Track 4: Kenny Clarke on drums?

Confirmation (not to give away the title or source of the tune).

[Dan Gould]

Hate to say it but for me, call it a miscellany of mostly misses.

4 and 13 are only ones of real appeal (and I am a little curious on the pianist for #7).

Thanks Joe.

[Joe]

5 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Hate to say it but for me, call it a miscellany of mostly misses.

4 and 13 are only ones of real appeal (and I am a little curious on the pianist for #7).

Thanks Joe.

#7 is a prominent figure; no obscurities in that combo, in fact.

[randyhersom]

Enjoyed it but felt largely clueless about IDs.  As usual I made myself try anyway.

1. Guitar with a bit of latin feel, maybe Spanish rather than South American.  Drummer has a feel for the dramatic.  Masterful.  I don't really associate the acoustic trio format with Larry Coryell, but I'm not coming up with other names that could pull this off.
2. Synthesizer in play here.  Feel is more organic than the usual fusion ensemble.  Looking for capable keyboardists that are comfortable in a more mainstream jazz setting but also embrace electronic on occasion.  My wild guess is Larry Goldings.
3. Sounds like Larry Young, but I don't know it.  Must be Bill Heid.
4. Lee Morgan?  I was thinking it was the 'bone's date until trumpet took the first solo, so maybe Curtis Fuller as backup guess.
5. Can't rule out an ECM piano trio here.  Maybe Richie Beirach?
6. Could be bass's date.  Pianoless quartet.  Has some similarity to Christian McBride's New Jawn.
7. If this isn't Keith Jarrett, then someone at the piano is trying to keep that fact a secret.  I have listened to a lot of Jarrett and don't know this, but I'm still going with Jarrett.  Drums don't sound like Motian, so Standards trio.
8. Piano and soprano duet.  Herbie and Wayne?
9. Leads with bass clarinet.  Compositional style indebted to McCoy Tyner.  Maria Schneider?
10. Alto fronts rhythm trio playing a latin-influenced groove.  Bobby Watson?
11. As it goes on I'm starting to think that's an alto flute.  Very full tone, not breathy.  Duet with Piano.  Not striving for commercial acceptance.  Probably later than Steig or McNeil.  Reminds me of the Jan Garbarek - Art Lande duo album Red Lanta on ECM, but I don't think that's it.
12. Bigger band including a bari.  Later Gerald Wilson?
13. Piano trio grounded in bop.  The recording and style of the bass suggest eighties or later as a recording date.  John Hicks?
 

[felser]

1 – Love the tone of the guitarist, great cut.  Sonny Greenwich?

2 – Does.Not.Compute.

3 – Poor audio source, a lot of distortion on the sax.  Vinyl?  Excellent players, quite a fine cut.  Don Patterson and Sonny Stitt?

4 – Good bop, nothing jumps out at me.  Fades into background for me.

5 – Good piano, nothing jumps out at me.  Fades into background for me.

6 – Good cut, like the tenor player, but nothing I’d go shopping for.

7 – Keith Jarrett with Charlie Haden and Paul Motian?  If not, quite an imitation, right down to the vocalizations and the composition style.  I like it quite a bit, Jarrett wasn’t so sanctimonious back in the early days.

8 – horn/piano duos is not a format I tend to enjoy.  I’m sure these are good players, etc., but the cut doesn’t do anything for me.  It’s not them, it’s me, I’m sure.  Ironically, this is the one cut I can easily identify:  cut 7 from this 

9 – I should like it, but it kind of drags for me in places.  Would probably grown on me with repeated listens.  Obviously very talented musicians, though the French horn sounds like he’s at a fox hunt (that’s due the arranger, not the horn player).  Must clearly be the tenor player’s album (or the arranger’s album), and he can certainly play.  And the bassist also catches my ear.  And I do have great respect for the cut and like it OK.  But something like this needs to grab my soul, not just my brain, and this doesn’t.

10 – It’s a good cut, but I’ve never been big on afro-carribean types of rhythm, and this left me fairly cold early on, but I like it when they jump into 4/4.  I liked it fine by the end.   Carlos Ward with Don Pullen?

11 – Not my format, but no escaping the surface beauty of this cut.  New agey, but it is still striking for first listen (though I’m not sure how it would age for me).  Windham Hill recording?

12 – Love this cut, guessing it’s from the 50’s?  Excited for the reveal, and hope I have it.

13 – Excellent trio cut, pianist and bass player especially shine.  Not particularly adventurous, but just so good.  Wouldn’t be shocked if it were Verve Oscar Peterson.

Thanks for an interesting BFT.  I especially look forward to the reveals on #’s 1, 3, 12.

[Joe]

Thanks all!

The lead on #11 is not a Western instrument, FWIW.

Carlos Ward does figure in this BFT... just not on #10.

The guitarist #1 is not a household name (as far as I know, anyway). But they've appeared on many classic LPs (session work).

The cats are out of the bag on #8.

If I am reading the credit correctly, there are two bassists on #9.

#5 features a player who has posted in these forums before.

Keep on enjoying!

Edited September 2, 2023 by Joe

[randyhersom]

Mundell Lowe on 1?

[Joe]

7 hours ago, randyhersom said:

Mundell Lowe on 1?

Think: closer to Motown than uptown.

[randyhersom]

David Spinozza, Steve Cropper and Teenie Hodges might fit that profile. 

[Joe]

15 hours ago, randyhersom said:

David Spinozza, Steve Cropper and Teenie Hodges might fit that profile. 

Yes, but no.

In all honesty, this guitarist was not on my radar until I discovered this record recently. 

[Dub Modal]

1 - Psych elements on that guitar like Szabo, but it's not his sound. Getting some Coryell vibes though. Definite mood track. Really enjoy that psych rock lean. 

2 - All right - interesting. The band is jamming. Drummer has a hard time in spots but the synths carry it. 

3 - Ok tune. Organist carries it by handling that bass line. 

5 - This is like if Bobo Stenson wanted to swing. Strong presence from that pianist. Bass & drums are locked in and follow whoever it is on the keys into the song. 

6 - Love the melody on the head. 70s tune? Not so in love with the bass solo even though they're obviously very good. 

7 - Not the first song in this BFT with that 70s rock groove. The pianist takes em there but I sense the band doesn't necessarily need to follow him. They do though. Works out ok. 

8 - Some real beautiful moments here. The sax (soprano?) has a great sound. 

9 - Helluva triumphant opening segued into a noir-ish piece. Mood! Bass clari stealing the show until the sax shows up. 

10 - I like it, and like what the sax player is doing. Would almost prefer the pianist not be there. 

12 - Another good one. Nice bari sax on another noir composition. 

13 - Dig the trio. Giraldi-esque playing. Good song. 

 

Thanks for putting this together! 

On 9/3/2023 at 11:48 AM, Joe said:

Yes, but no.

In all honesty, this guitarist was not on my radar until I discovered this record recently. 

Coffey? 

[Joe]

5 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

1 - Psych elements on that guitar like Szabo, but it's not his sound. Getting some Coryell vibes though. Definite mood track. Really enjoy that psych rock lean. 

2 - All right - interesting. The band is jamming. Drummer has a hard time in spots but the synths carry it. 

3 - Ok tune. Organist carries it by handling that bass line. 

5 - This is like if Bobo Stenson wanted to swing. Strong presence from that pianist. Bass & drums are locked in and follow whoever it is on the keys into the song. 

6 - Love the melody on the head. 70s tune? Not so in love with the bass solo even though they're obviously very good. 

7 - Not the first song in this BFT with that 70s rock groove. The pianist takes em there but I sense the band doesn't necessarily need to follow him. They do though. Works out ok. 

8 - Some real beautiful moments here. The sax (soprano?) has a great sound. 

9 - Helluva triumphant opening segued into a noir-ish piece. Mood! Bass clari stealing the show until the sax shows up. 

10 - I like it, and like what the sax player is doing. Would almost prefer the pianist not be there. 

12 - Another good one. Nice bari sax on another noir composition. 

13 - Dig the trio. Giraldi-esque playing. Good song. 

 

Thanks for putting this together! 

Coffey? 

Thanks!

Not Dennis Coffey, but I too hear a distinct Szabo thing happening, alongside the expected Wes-ims. I think I'll have fun revealing this one!

6 has 70's connections and connotations, but it dates from late in the leader's career. Who is the leader? You have a one in four chance of nailing that!

I kind of agree about 10... its the saxophonist's show for sure. A name in their day, but not a player I hear much about anymore (still active as far as I know, though).

"This is like if Bobo Stenson wanted to swing" 😀 ECM vibes, I feel them some, but this is an all-American band.

The band on 12 is a bit of a surprising amalgamation. Agree about the bari player... and they're probably the most obscure member of the group. 

[Д.Д.]

Just listened to the first 7 tracks, and a here are just a couple of comments about the tracks that I identified. Will expand later if I have time.

Track 2. Minneapolis finest. The hyper-active drummer and his writing style are immediately recognizable. I know this album and I love it. Somewhat unexpected to see it released on a venerable Swiss avant-jazz label. While the music contains no improvisation, it's surprisingly interesting to listen to. The tunes have strong hooks, nice flow, good build-up and some really unexpected turns. I don't think this is the best track on the album, though  .

Track 6. A beautiful, somewhat melancholic tune written by the saxophone player (good writer, not that interesting a player, IMHO). Cornet solo is fantastic - the flow and ideas are fascinating, it's a shame the player is not known better. Sadly, the drummer, the leader of the band, would die just a couple of months after this recording. The bass - drums team works very well. An album I return to often. 

Track 7. Well, all the musicians are instantly recognizable (is this a trademark groan at 00:18?). I am not a fan of the fussily precious pianist. And I really can't stand the heavy-handed clumsy drummer - neither here, not anywhere else I've heard him. The cymbals bashing is unbearable (yeah I know, unique stylist revolutionized the role of the drums, whatever). The tune is simplistic and cheesy. The only thing I like here is the bass. Sorry, really hate the stuff.       

Except for #7, I liked all the tracks, will comment on them later - and look forward to listening to the rest of the BFT. Thank you.  

 

     

[Joe]

15 minutes ago, Д.Д. said:

Cornet solo is fantastic - the flow and ideas are fascinating, it's a shame the player is not known better. .  

 

     

I couldn't agree more. Thanks for these observations!

[Dub Modal]

On 9/8/2023 at 4:15 PM, Joe said:

alongside the expected Wes-ims

Then my final guess will be Martino, even though it doesn't really sound like him. 

[Joe]

Just now, Dub Modal said:

Then my final guess will be Martino, even though it doesn't really sound like him. 

Different coast.

[Dub Modal]

2 minutes ago, Joe said:

Different coast.

Ah, well it'll be interesting to see who it is. 

[JSngry]

Scabbberblabbing while wondering what happened to promises, guarantees, and dangerous bubblegum. I offer none of those, have looked at a few responses, but am copping none of them for my own, under mattress tags of lawful intercourse.

TRACK ONE - This does not exist without Chico Hamilton, but this is not Chico Hamilton. But it is two guitars, one way or another. Our gracious host has dropped a few hints, and I'm going to use them to make an entirely unfounded guess and say Dennis Budimir. But searching Discogs shows no record that matches this lineup. That proves absolutely nothing. Nice cut.

TRACK TWO - Uh....ok. This might be more interesting if there were more machines and fewer people. Might be. Textures are good, pocket is way too stiff for my liking, and the melodic line is redolent of nothing to which I would aspire to inhabit, or to be inhabited by. Kinda like Zawinul if Zawinul had been white. Maybe if I was really lonely I could feel something for it, but I'm not lonely, I'm just tired.

TRACK THREE - This is a trip. It sounds like a Larry Young band with somebody copping Charles Lloyd's groove but not sound. It's not Buddy Terry is it? No, because that sure seems to be Elvin. I will be disappointed but not surprised if I either have or do not have this record. I like this one a lot, some hip shit indeed. It takes true character to play the tenor like that! OH FUCK - THIS IS BUDDY TERRY - "The Revealing Time" The Newark-only Unity, not Elvin, Eddie Gladden, Not Joe, Buddy Terry. HELL YEAH!!!!!!!! My apologies FOR NOT LISTENING LONG ENOUGH THE FIRST TIME TO GET TO wOODY sHAW. tHIS IS A MONSTER CUT, CRUCIALLY IMPORTANT, IMO. everybody LOVES UNITY, BUT uNITY WaS A STUDIO BAND, THIS IS HOMETOWN MUSIC RIGHT HEAR, ATTENTION MUST BE PAID!!!!!!

TRACK FOUR - Sounds like some almost-overarranged Julius Watkins. I don't know it. The solos give some breathing room. Soloists sound like some very capable (or better) 'followers". It's good.

TRACK FIVE - That's interesting. I feel the shadow of Paul Bley, but a supportive shadow, not an enveloping one. Frankly, the note that this pianist is a sometimes poster here tell me all I need to know. I like this one too., as the Paul Bley pianistic lineage is one of several that have gone unnoted for far too long.

TRACK SIX - YAH!

TRACK SEVEN - Ok, I get that a lot of people hate this guy, and often enough with at least casual reason. But it's too easy. Everybody here can play, and in this case, the material is a solid germ of an idea that gets developed in a thoughtful and linear manner. Haters gonna hate as they say, and groupies gonna group, but for everybody else, there's life in the case-by-case lane. In this lane they're being joined by Les McCann who waves and says, hey, whatever, you do you, I'll do me, let's both get paid. And so they did!

TRACK EIGHT - The Dynamic Duo! I remember how this album got a lot of mixed reviews, and ok, but...seriously? Masters gonna Master any damn time they want to, any damn way they want to.

TRACK NINE - Whoa! That's some writing, very Mingusian. And serious tenor playing to go with it, in it, of it. If this is Teo's writing, it's not Teo's tenor, that's for sure (but both are more than very capable, don't sleep on Teo the musician). No matter, marvelous music in both conception and in every aspect of execution. What's the rest of the record like?

TRACK TEN - Oliver Lake, probably from his first Gramavision. Nicely played. At the time, I felt ever so "slightly" about those records because they struck me at the time as being just ever so slightly overtly Dolphy-esque, which in retrospect was a pretty silly/dumb notion to have. True enough (maybe...), but so what, right? Heard today, this is a delight.

TRACK ELEVEN - Is this a bamboo flute? I've no idea where to begin for guesses, so I'll just enjoy it.

TRACK TWELVE - Oh, moody! In a good way. Sounds sorta like Bohemia-period Mingus, but only sorta-kinda. No matter, very nice!

TRACK THIRTEEN - Head sounds like Elmo Hope, solos like Bill Evans until not, obviously neither, so what other tricks are there, or is this it? I mean, what can you say, it's pleasant, I wouldn't kick it out of bed foreating crackers, at least not the first time. But short leash after that. OTOH, there's a lifetime of work that goes into doing "even" this, and that should damn well be respected as such.

Hey Joe, it's been years of pleasure listening to the various musics that pass through your hands, ears, and mind. Always a pleasure. Always!

[Joe]

8 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Scabbberblabbing while wondering what happened to promises, guarantees, and dangerous bubblegum. I offer none of those, have looked at a few responses, but am copping none of them for my own, under mattress tags of lawful intercourse.

TRACK ONE - This does not exist without Chico Hamilton, but this is not Chico Hamilton. But it is two guitars, one way or another. Our gracious host has dropped a few hints, and I'm going to use them to make an entirely unfounded guess and say Dennis Budimir. But searching Discogs shows no record that matches this lineup. That proves absolutely nothing. Nice cut.

TRACK TWO - Uh....ok. This might be more interesting if there were more machines and fewer people. Might be. Textures are good, pocket is way too stiff for my liking, and the melodic line is redolent of nothing to which I would aspire to inhabit, or to be inhabited by. Kinda like Zawinul if Zawinul had been white. Maybe if I was really lonely I could feel something for it, but I'm not lonely, I'm just tired.

TRACK THREE - This is a trip. It sounds like a Larry Young band with somebody copping Charles Lloyd's groove but not sound. It's not Buddy Terry is it? No, because that sure seems to be Elvin. I will be disappointed but not surprised if I either have or do not have this record. I like this one a lot, some hip shit indeed. It takes true character to play the tenor like that! OH FUCK - THIS IS BUDDY TERRY - "The Revealing Time" The Newark-only Unity, not Elvin, Eddie Gladden, Not Joe, Buddy Terry. HELL YEAH!!!!!!!! My apologies FOR NOT LISTENING LONG ENOUGH THE FIRST TIME TO GET TO wOODY sHAW. tHIS IS A MONSTER CUT, CRUCIALLY IMPORTANT, IMO. everybody LOVES UNITY, BUT uNITY WaS A STUDIO BAND, THIS IS HOMETOWN MUSIC RIGHT HEAR, ATTENTION MUST BE PAID!!!!!!

TRACK FOUR - Sounds like some almost-overarranged Julius Watkins. I don't know it. The solos give some breathing room. Soloists sound like some very capable (or better) 'followers". It's good.

TRACK FIVE - That's interesting. I feel the shadow of Paul Bley, but a supportive shadow, not an enveloping one. Frankly, the note that this pianist is a sometimes poster here tell me all I need to know. I like this one too., as the Paul Bley pianistic lineage is one of several that have gone unnoted for far too long.

TRACK SIX - YAH!

TRACK SEVEN - Ok, I get that a lot of people hate this guy, and often enough with at least casual reason. But it's too easy. Everybody here can play, and in this case, the material is a solid germ of an idea that gets developed in a thoughtful and linear manner. Haters gonna hate as they say, and groupies gonna group, but for everybody else, there's life in the case-by-case lane. In this lane they're being joined by Les McCann who waves and says, hey, whatever, you do you, I'll do me, let's both get paid. And so they did!

TRACK EIGHT - The Dynamic Duo! I remember how this album got a lot of mixed reviews, and ok, but...seriously? Masters gonna Master any damn time they want to, any damn way they want to.

TRACK NINE - Whoa! That's some writing, very Mingusian. And serious tenor playing to go with it, in it, of it. If this is Teo's writing, it's not Teo's tenor, that's for sure (but both are more than very capable, don't sleep on Teo the musician). No matter, marvelous music in both conception and in every aspect of execution. What's the rest of the record like?

TRACK TEN - Oliver Lake, probably from his first Gramavision. Nicely played. At the time, I felt ever so "slightly" about those records because they struck me at the time as being just ever so slightly overtly Dolphy-esque, which in retrospect was a pretty silly/dumb notion to have. True enough (maybe...), but so what, right? Heard today, this is a delight.

TRACK ELEVEN - Is this a bamboo flute? I've no idea where to begin for guesses, so I'll just enjoy it.

TRACK TWELVE - Oh, moody! In a good way. Sounds sorta like Bohemia-period Mingus, but only sorta-kinda. No matter, very nice!

TRACK THIRTEEN - Head sounds like Elmo Hope, solos like Bill Evans until not, obviously neither, so what other tricks are there, or is this it? I mean, what can you say, it's pleasant, I wouldn't kick it out of bed foreating crackers, at least not the first time. But short leash after that. OTOH, there's a lifetime of work that goes into doing "even" this, and that should damn well be respected as such.

Hey Joe, it's been years of pleasure listening to the various musics that pass through your hands, ears, and mind. Always a pleasure. Always!

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.

Of course, you nailed a handful of these. (And you are correct about the instrument in the mix on 11.) I think you might kick yourself (figuratively) upon the reveal for 9. 2 might surprise you as well... we'll see.

In retrospect, I hear how much of this BFT is about the drummers. 2, 3 , 5, 6, 7, even 10 and 13 all hinge majorly on what the drummer's doing, or holding back from doing, or not doing. But I didn't really plan it that way. On only one of these tracks is the dummer is the bandleader. 

[JSngry]

After posting, I cheated as much as I was able, and no regrets about #2, not really. Maybe another cut would have landed better.

But #9...I have that record, got iy years agou, but rush-listened to it and the filed it away. A horrible mistake....

Your BFTs usually have at least one PSA cut, and on this one it's #3. Talk about a missing link...even if it is after the fact. Newark!

[Joe]

25 minutes ago, JSngry said:

After posting, I cheated as much as I was able, and no regrets about #2, not really. Maybe another cut would have landed better.

But #9...I have that record, got iy years agou, but rush-listened to it and the filed it away. A horrible mistake....

Your BFTs usually have at least one PSA cut, and on this one it's #3. Talk about a missing link...even if it is after the fact. Newark!

I will definitely have more to say about 3!

[felser]

#3 desperately needs a CD issue.

[Joe]

7 hours ago, felser said:

#3 desperately needs a CD issue.

Seconded!