Serge Chaloff

[sgcim]

I had heard Chaloff a long time ago, and discounted listening to him because of the usual things I don't like about bari players, ponderous low pitch that drives me nuts after I listen to it for too long, overuse of vibrato, no chops, etc...

But when I was talking about Richard Twardzik to a friend, he recommended that I buy Chaloff's "Boston 1950". I just listened to it, and couldn't believe it; he was some type of genius on the instrument. Beautiful tone that was almost completely in the upper range of the instrument, great ideas, great chops, no overdone vibrato. I don't know how he did it.

As much as I love Pepper Adams, Ronnie Cuber, Nick Brignola and others, I can't listen to them for extended periods of time (i.e. a quartet or trio album) because of the natural ponderous sound of the low pitched instrument. Chaloff seemed to realize this and found some way of overcoming this natural limitation of the instrument.

Mulligan realized this, too, but IMHO, lacked the chops, and sound that Chaloff had. I don't know if he plays as well on his studio albums (Boston Blowup and Blue Serge) as he did live here, but I'll check them out. It could be that he had some physical aspect that helped his embouchure (i'e Phil Woods statement that, "I was just a natural") or maybe his famous mother had something to do with it (even though she taught piano), but i was blown away by this album. In the CD booklet, thanks is given to Chuck Nessa, so maybe he had something to do with it. 😁

[Stompin at the Savoy]

I was listening to Blue Serge a day or two ago because of the Sonny Clark connection.  Great album!  Almost a Blue Note prototype or paradigm or something like that...

[optatio]

8 hours ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

I was listening to Blue Serge a day or two ago because of the Sonny Clark connection.  Great album!  Almost a Blue Note prototype or paradigm or something like that...

👍

 

[mikeweil]

Blue Serge is a baritone sax classic!

[jlhoots]

1 hour ago, mikeweil said:

Blue Serge is a baritone sax classic!

👍

[colinmce]

Blue Serge is as good as it gets to me. Also worth checking out Fable of Mabel (with Twardzik) for some progressive bop that fits in alongside the RCA Jazz Workshop arranger-forward type stuff i.e. Billy Byers, Hal McKusick, George Russell etc. Even reminiscent in a way of early Mingus.

Edited July 31, 2023 by colinmce

[Big Beat Steve]

At the risk of this turning into yet another "in-due-course-every-record-by-the-subject-on-hand-will-be-named" thread , I'd give a big plug for the "Boston Blow-Up" LP (Capitol, 1954) as well. Its impact on me was as immediate as the Blue Serge LP, even more so (at least on first listening) than the Fable of Mable.

I'd second the props for the Boston 1950 CD on Uptown in the opening post, and I suppose the SECOND Uptown CD (Rock Island February 1953) needs no added recomendations either.

[medjuck]

27 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

At the risk of this turning into yet another "in-due-course-every-record-by-the-subject-on-hand-will-be-named" thread , I'd give a big plug for the "Boston Blow-Up" LP (Capitol, 1954) as well. Its impact on me was as immediate as the Blue Serge LP, even more so (at least on first listening) than the Fable of Mable.

I'd second the props for the Boston 1950 CD on Uptown in the opening post, and I suppose the SECOND Uptown CD (Rock Island February 1953) needs no added recomendations either.

I think we have now recommended all of the Serge Chaloff cds ever issued except one so I'll recommend it:  "Serge Chaloff Memorial: We the People Bop".  It even has a couple of sessions not on the Mosaic "Complete Serge Chaloff Sessions" because they're ones on which he wasn't leader. 

[sgcim]

38 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

At the risk of this turning into yet another "in-due-course-every-record-by-the-subject-on-hand-will-be-named" thread , I'd give a big plug for the "Boston Blow-Up" LP (Capitol, 1954) as well. Its impact on me was as immediate as the Blue Serge LP, even more so (at least on first listening) than the Fable of Mable.

I'd second the props for the Boston 1950 CD on Uptown in the opening post, and I suppose the SECOND Uptown CD (Rock Island February 1953) needs no added recomendations either.

Yea, the great ensemble writing and tunes on Boston Blow-Up, plus the fine improvisations of Serge, Boots Mussulli, Herb Pomeroy, and Ray Santisi made Boston Blow-Up more enjoyable for me than Blue Serge. Maybe it was the fact that he was playing with all his buddies from Boston that made Serge play with more abandon than on Blue Serge, where he seemed to be playing more carefully than on Blow-Up and especially the wild Boston 1950 CD, where he was all over the horn.

Like you said, one album leads to another, and I'm looking forward to checking out the Boots Musulli Quartet album, and Fable of Mabel LP. I finally found a copy of Serge's biography that I'm expecting to get today, and learn more about him than his rampage on the Four Brothers Band.

[Larry Kart]

As sgcim says, how Chaloff did  it -- "Beautiful tone that was almost completely in the upper range of the instrument, great ideas, great chops, no overdone vibrato" -- is something of a mystery. Smulyan fan that I've become, I'd say that he matches Serge in the instrument's lowest register, but in the upper register and in terms of overall articulation and ideas, no other baritonist comes close. 

W'eve probably heard about the time Woody  Herman, exasperated by Serge's frequently outrageous behavior stood next to him at the bar of the Sherman Hotel and while engaging him in conversation pissed down Serge's leg. Here's another one from the same period.

Eddie Higgins, then a student at Notre Dame, wanted to interview Serge for the school newspaper. He calls Serge's room at the Sherman and they agree on a time to talk. Eddie arrives at Serge's room. He smells smoke and knocks on the door, which is ajar. Eddie enters, and sees Serge sprawled on the rug, with one arm flung behind him, resting in the seat of a plush armchair, where the cigarette in Serge's hand has burned a substantial  hole. "Mr. Chaloff," Eddie says, "the chair; it's on fire." Serge languidly turns his head to look, and says, "I'm hip."

[AllenLowe]

1 hour ago, Larry Kart said:

As sgcim says, how Chaloff did  it -- "Beautiful tone that was almost completely in the upper range of the instrument, great ideas, great chops, no overdone vibrato" -- is something of a mystery. Smulyan fan that I've become, I'd say that he matches Serge in the instrument's lowest register, but in the upper register and in terms of overall articulation and ideas, no other baritonist comes close. 

W'eve probably heard about the time Woody  Herman, exasperated by Serge's frequently outrageous behavior stood next to him at the bar of the Sherman Hotel and while engaging him in conversation pissed down Serge's leg. Here's another one from the same period.

Eddie Higgins, then a student at Notre Dame, wanted to interview Serge for the school newspaper. He calls Serge's room at the Sherman and they agree on a time to talk. Eddie arrives at Serge's room. He smells smoke and knocks on the door, which is ajar. Eddie enters, and sees Serge sprawled on the rug, with one arm flung behind him, resting in the seat of a plush armchair, where the cigarette in Serge's hand has burned a substantial  hole. "Mr. Chaloff," Eddie says, "the chair; it's on fire." Serge languidly turns his head to look, and says, "I'm hip."

Junkies are an adventure and a chore. I spent a weird day with Art Pepper in the '70s, basically driving him around looking for drugs. Helluva nice guy.

[JSngry]

What did he (Chaloff) die from, spinal cancer or something? That seemed an odd turn of events.

As for his tonal control, he probably had access to top-shelf classical saxophone/woodwind instruction, no? They would have had that in Boston, right? 

[Larry Kart]

"As for his tonal control, he probably had access to top-shelf classical saxophone/woodwind instruction, no? They would have had that in Boston, right?' 

One would like to know.

 

"The cause of most primary spinal tumors is unknown. Some of them may be attributed to exposure to cancer-causing agents. Spinal cord lymphomas, which are cancers that affect lymphocytes (a type of immune cell), are more common in people with compromised immune systems."

 

[JSngry]

Ok, here it is: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Chaloff

 

Serge Chaloff was the son of the pianist and composer Julius Chaloff and the leading Boston piano teacher, Margaret Chaloff (known professionally as Madame Chaloff). He learned the piano from the age of six and also had clarinet lessons with Manuel Valerio of the Boston Symphony Orchestra. At the age of twelve, after hearing Harry Carney, Duke Ellington's baritonist, he taught himself to play the baritone. Chaloff later explained to Leonard Feather in an interview: 'Who could teach me? I couldn't chase [Harry] Carney around the country.'

Although he was inspired by Carney and Jack Washington, Count Basie's baritone player, Chaloff did not imitate them. According to his brother, Richard, 'he could play (baritone) like a tenor sax. The only time you knew it was a baritone was when he took it down low. He played it high....He had finger dexterity, I used to watch him, you couldn't believe the speed he played. He was precise. He was a perfectionist. He would be up in his bedroom as a teenager. He would be up by the hour to one, two, three in the morning and I'm trying to sleep and he'd go over a phrase or a piece until it was perfect...I used to put the pillow over my head, we had battles.'

So, he got top-shelf instruction on the physical processes of sound production and breath control from the classical instruction, had some definite role models in Carney and Washington (two different tonal paradigms, yes?), and simply did the work to use what he knew to get what he wanted.

There's a lot of luck/chance/whatever in a lot of things, but a highly controlled sound on any instrument that requires an embouchure ain't one of 'em!

And yeah, Jack Washington!!! Attention should be paid!!! 

[Larry Kart]

Thanks, Jim.

[sgcim]

I don't know if it's been mentioned before, but in the Twardzik book someone said his favorite trick in their quartet would be to play a long cadenza at the end of Body and Soul, and undo his belt somewhere in the middle of it, and he'd time his cadenza to end with his low Bb while his pants would drop down to his shoes.

What a showman!

[Big Beat Steve]

13 hours ago, medjuck said:

I think we have now recommended all of the Serge Chaloff cds ever issued except one so I'll recommend it:  "Serge Chaloff Memorial: We the People Bop".  It even has a couple of sessions not on the Mosaic "Complete Serge Chaloff Sessions" because they're ones on which he wasn't leader. 

I just checked this online. To the best of my knowledge, all of this material seems to have been reissued elsewhere before in the not too distant past before this CD was released (e.g. on Onyx/Xanadu LPs and on Savoy twofers). Like others in that CD series, you get a lot of material but since the leaders often were not the artist in whose name the CD was released you later find, upon checking your collection, that you already have most or even all of it on other records.

BTW, there IS one other that so far has not been mentioned:

"The Four Brothers - Together Again!" (RCA, rec. 11 Feb. 1957)

This was Serge Chaloff's final recording date. Any opinions on this by those thoroughly familiar with it? I need to relisten to it to get an opinion again, but from what I remember from period reviews Chaloff must have been in great form and, maybe sensing his end was drawing closer, put everything in this date. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Big Beat Steve

[mikeweil]

13 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

BTW, there IS one other that so far has not been mentioned:

"The Four Brothers - Together Again!" (RCA, rec. 11 Feb. 1957)

This was Serge Chaloff's final recording date. Any opinions on this by those thoroughly familiar with it? I need to relisten to it to get an opinion again, but from what I remember from period reviews Chaloff must have been in great form and, maybe sensing his end was drawing closer, put everything in this date. 

I have this on a French RCA LP reissue, but would have to listen to it again. It was recorded in two sessions starting at 11.00 am and ending at 1.00 am in the morning, with a two hour lunch break in between. Due to Chaloff's declining health Charlie Kane played the ensembles on the second session. Let me listen again before I comment on Chlaoff's form on this session ...

Edited August 1, 2023 by mikeweil

[JSngry]

It's ok, probably better than circumstances should have allowed, but hardly a jaw-dropper in any regard. Imo.