Columbia 30th Street Studio Vocal Reverb

[Teasing the Korean]

While we're reflecting on Tony Bennett, may I say how much I love the sound of the distinctive Columbia 30th Street reverb heard on Columbia - and some non-Columbia - vocalists, beginning circa 1957 or '58 and extending through the 1960s, maybe into the early 1970s.  You hear it on Tony, Johnny Mathis, Andy Williams, Eydie Gorme, and on non-Columbia artists such as Jack Jones (who sometimes recorded at Columbia).

This is the sound of my childhood.  Musical comfort food.

 

[Chuck Nessa]

Talkin' 'bout this place -

Edit to say my wife Ann took this shot as we entered the studio for a Roscoe Mitchell date in 1978. A couple of hours later she was on the scaffold snapping images of the scene below.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Chuck Nessa

[JSngry]

Where are the ashtrays? Those things were massive! 

[felser]

Agree that there was some magic in those Columbia vocal albums recorded there.  For me, especially the Johnny Mathis ones, but also quite enjoy many of the Andy Williams ones.

[Teasing the Korean]

My Dad did a number of sessions there in the 1950s and 60s, and he hated that reverb.  I believe it was a Mitch Miller directive.  My Dad thought it blurred the voices of the singers and made the lyrics less distinctive.  But having grown up with that sound, I can't imagine hearing those records any other way.

[JSngry]

Double-tracked Andy Williams!!!! 

[Teasing the Korean]

45 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Double-tracked Andy Williams!!!! 

One was plenty!

[AllenLowe]

I assume it was an old-fashioned plate reverb, literally a plate. They used the real thing in those days; though plate reverbs can be a bit too lush.  I may be wrong, but I don't think with those kind of things that they could control the amount on the recording, as you can with digital verbs (which I love). And I will say that I love those old-style rooms; I only had the opportunity to record twice at a similar place, Systems Two in Brooklyn (which is now closed). People can argue all day about the different between digital and analogue, but I feel certain that so much of what we complain about in the sonic differences between old and new jazz recordings is due to the old rooms, which in the old days were specifically designed for live recordings. The two CDs I made at Systems Two just sound....real, no isolation, musicians who could hear each other, no headphones, just a beautiful sound. Recording studios today tend to be designed to deaden the sound, to fight leakage, and to create the true acoustics in the board.

Edited July 25, 2023 by AllenLowe

[Teasing the Korean]

3 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

The two CDs I made at Systems Two just sound....real, no isolation, musicians who could hear each other, no headphones, just a beautiful sound. Recording studios today tend to be designed to deaden the sound, to fight leakage, and to create the true acoustics in the board.

About 10 years ago, my combo recorded an album live, all in one room, no headphones, maybe no baffles (I can't remember).  Grand piano, vibes/marimba, acoustic bass, conga, bongos, Latin drum kit.  Minimal overdubs, only animal sound effects and additional bongos on two tracks that didn't have them.  I did have to edit parts of different takes together, though.  It sounds like an album from the late 1950s, everyone playing together in one room, the way it was always done.  I love that natural room ambience.  

[felser]

On 7/25/2023 at 2:34 PM, AllenLowe said:

I assume it was an old-fashioned plate reverb, literally a plate. They used the real thing in those days; though plate reverbs can be a bit too lush.  I may be wrong, but I don't think with those kind of things that they could control the amount on the recording, as you can with digital verbs (which I love). And I will say that I love those old-style rooms; I only had the opportunity to record twice at a similar place, Systems Two in Brooklyn (which is now closed). People can argue all day about the different between digital and analogue, but I feel certain that so much of what we complain about in the sonic differences between old and new jazz recordings is due to the old rooms, which in the old days were specifically designed for live recordings. The two CDs I made at Systems Two just sound....real, no isolation, musicians who could hear each other, no headphones, just a beautiful sound. Recording studios today tend to be designed to deaden the sound, to fight leakage, and to create the true acoustics in the board.

Our friend Ruth Naomi Floyd recorded her first three albums at Systems Two, we were there for sessions for the first ('Paradigms For Modern Times') and third ('Fan Into Flame').  The studio did have a great sound.  Good place, though the neighborhood terrified me.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I thought I read that the reverb at CBS' New York studios was done using an echo chamber? I seem to remember reading that they had one in the basement that they pumped the music into and picked up the reverb'ed sound using a single mic.

From this topic over on the Steve Hoffman forum: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/history-of-cbs-records-30th-street-studio-nyc-many-pictures.388186/page-19

"Directly below 30th Street's recording room sat a simple concrete storage room that Laico and CBS head Mitch Miller transformed into one of the finest natural acoustic chambers in the world. 'After a few years, producers from around the world began visiting, wanting to know what we were doing in order to get that sound,' notes Laico. 'When in reality it was just this concrete bunker with a speaker, a U-47, and a bare lightbulb!'"

Also in that thread:

"Frank said that after they built the chamber and made it operational, it never really sounded right until Les Paul told them that the key was to separate the wet sound from the dry sound in time by adding a delay. In those days the only way to accomplish that was to record the signal onto tape on a machine with separate record and playback heads and then pick the recorded signal from the playback head and feed it back into the console, thus introducing a time delay.

By adjusting the speed of the tape you could adjust the time delay.

That simple trick "made all the difference in the world", in Frank's words, and was the key to the success of their reverb chamber."

[hopkins]

All the Ellington albums recorded there (last one I played was "Midnight in Paris") have superb sound. That one was recorded in 1962, and I did not notice excessive reverb on the vocal track ("Autumn Leaves").

I am not a great fan of added reverb. Some producers add it to increase the feeling of a concert hall recording, but concert halls with good acoustics don't have reverb...

Edited August 4, 2023 by hopkins