Tony Bennett, 1926-2023

[Dave Garrett]

On 7/22/2023 at 8:15 AM, Teasing the Korean said:

A Tony Bennett completist published a list of missing material from that box set.  Even lots of stray Columbia-era tracks are missing.

Not sure if it's the same one you're referring to, but a Hoffman poster has a site that not only documents the missing tracks but also has links to FLAC downloads of them. Not going to post the link here for obvious reasons, but if you Google "missing bennett tracks blogger"  it's pretty easily found. 

[Teasing the Korean]

34 minutes ago, JSngry said:

My impression is that this is something that he grew into or more fully embraced or whatever after he kind of bottomed out, so to speak, once he got the "show-biz"  out of his blood once and for all and finally went all in on just singing the songs. 

There was plenty of "just singing the songs" in the early days, and there was a hell of a lot of showbiz in the 2013 show that I saw. 

[JSngry]

That might be another difference between him and Sinatra, then.

Sinatra (who I did see live, on a very good night in 1982, at Caesar's)...of course there was "show biz", but ultimately it was Sinatra, period. He was more/bigger than any one thing. 

I went to the show because I had a chance to go, period. Wasn't really expecting anything, but left totally freaked out, it was SINATRA by God. If I hadn't seen, I would not have believed it.

I might well have responded to Bennet the same way, possibly even more since he worked with his trio, right? Sinatra had a big band and did a few songs with rhythm quartet, but I was expecting to hear a bunch of schlock with sappy strings, so that just added to the surprise. But ultimately it was just Sinatra's sheer power of skill (and his skill of power) that shook me up.

I have no doubt that Bennett live would have done the same thing in his own personal way. 

[Larry Kart]

One difference is that Frank's fans could almost be Elvis like. I caught him live at the Chicago Stadium in the '70s and the intensity of the female fans was extreme. I  remember several young women staggering toward the stage with totally dazed expressions on their faces.

[Chuck Nessa]

8 minutes ago, Larry Kart said:

One difference is that Frank's fans could almost be Elvis like. I caught him live at the Chicago Stadium in the '70s and the intensity of the female fans was extreme. I  remember several young women staggering toward the stage with totally dazed expressions on their faces.

Was that the gig where Royko dissed your review?

[JSngry]

I was never a bobby-soxer. But I knew and hopefully still know musical power that goes beyond just "music".

I also felt in the second half of the Sonny Rollins concert I heard. The first half was a bit mundane. The second half was anything but. 

But in 1982, Sinatra was already known for having good nights and...the other kind, when the pitch was wobbly and the voice croaky.

I was fully expecting one of those nights, I was just there to see "the legend", to be an indifferent spectator of a Famous Performer Past Their Prime. 

Instead...one baaaaad motherfucker showed up! 

[sgcim]

49 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I was never a bobby-soxer. But I knew and hopefully still know musical power that goes beyond just "music".

I also felt in the second half of the Sonny Rollins concert I heard. The first half was a bit mundane. The second half was anything but. 

But in 1982, Sinatra was already known for having good nights and...the other kind, when the pitch was wobbly and the voice croaky.

I was fully expecting one of those nights, I was just there to see "the legend", to be an indifferent spectator of a Famous Performer Past Their Prime. 

Instead...one baaaaad motherfucker showed up! 

He talked about the profound effect Billie Holiday had on him when he saw her in clubs.

The guy stole my father's freaking song (This Love of Mine) and my father still NEVER said a bad word about him!!!

My mother was one of those bobbysoxers. The guy was like part of my family.

[Teasing the Korean]

8 hours ago, JSngry said:

That might be another difference between him and Sinatra, then.

Sinatra (who I did see live, on a very good night in 1982, at Caesar's)...of course there was "show biz", but ultimately it was Sinatra, period. He was more/bigger than any one thing. 

I went to the show because I had a chance to go, period. Wasn't really expecting anything, but left totally freaked out, it was SINATRA by God. If I hadn't seen, I would not have believed it.

I might well have responded to Bennet the same way, possibly even more since he worked with his trio, right? Sinatra had a big band and did a few songs with rhythm quartet, but I was expecting to hear a bunch of schlock with sappy strings, so that just added to the surprise. But ultimately it was just Sinatra's sheer power of skill (and his skill of power) that shook me up.

I have no doubt that Bennett live would have done the same thing in his own personal way. 

During his first Columbia period, Bennett made a number of albums with small jazz combos, and a least one album where he is accompanied only by solo piano.  Is it possible that your opinion of Bennett during this period is shaded by TV appearances and hits such as "San Francisco?"

[JSngry]

Totally, until I began exploring the full catalogue via Spotify 

[ghost of miles]

Sony’s Fifty Years (an expansion of their previous Forty Years collection) provides a good overview of Bennett’s career, spanning 1950 to the early 2000s.

[Teasing the Korean]

I want to clarify an earlier comment that I made about Tony's albums during his first Columbia period vs. Sinatra's Capitol and early Reprise albums.  

I had written, more or less, that Sinatra's albums were expertly conceived and that Tony's were sometimes scattershot.

Both Sinatra and Bennett recorded some schlock during that period, but the schlock was usually in the form of then-new songs, sometimes gimmicky, reserved for singles, in the hope of scoring a quick hit.  These kinds of tunes were typically left off the contemporaneous albums.

The difference between Frank and Tony is that Sinatra probably had more pull with Capitol on the content of his albums.  While Tony made some many cohesive and solid LPs during that first Columbia phase, Columbia was still able to quickly assemble albums.  For example, the San Francisco album, was hastily put together after the single became a hit.  The LP was drawn from outtakes from previous albums, failed singles, and even a couple of tracks that had already appeared on albums.  It is a real grab back.  Schlock like "Candy Kisses" and "Have I Told You Lately" deserved to remain obscure singles, but Columbia was able to include them.  It would be like Capitol adding "High Hopes" to the Where Are You album.

So if Tony's albums were not as consistent as Frank's, Columbia is at least partially to blame.

 

[Larry Kart]

No, that was at Chicago Fest, where Frank's voice pretty much suddenly gave out and he sang for only about 40 minutes and got into his helicopter to O'Hare. This after we had sat in the summer sun for several hours and after Royko and Co, were ushered into front row seats by Mayor Byrne. That review almost got me fired.

[JSngry]

29 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Both Sinatra and Bennett recorded some schlock during that period, but the schlock was usually in the form of then-new songs, sometimes gimmicky, reserved for singles, in the hope of scoring a quick hit.  These kinds of tunes were typically left off the contemporaneous albums.

Not really accurate in Sinatra's case. Both Capitol and Reprise released singles albums as well as the concept albums. 

[Teasing the Korean]

10 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Not really accurate in Sinatra's case. Both Capitol and Reprise released singles albums as well as the concept albums. 

By the mid-60s, the contemporaneous single was often on Sinatra's Reprise album.

But the Capitol singles collections were really separate from the concept albums.  The only Capitol album that took an approach similar to the San Francisco album was This is Sinatra Volume 2, which was half singles and half tracks from an abandoned concept album.  

So even with that one example, Capitol - and Reprise, until about the mid-1960s - did not take as many liberties with Sinatra albums as Columbia did with Tony's.

[JSngry]

 

[Teasing the Korean]

7 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Yes, that is around the time that things shifted.  (Those films are from 1964.)

[felser]

28 minutes ago, JSngry said:

 

My mother bought and played that single when she was/we were separating from my father (it needed to happen).  Back to the subject at hand, I find Sinatra's Reprise albums to not be nearly as compelling as his Capitol albums, so credit to Capitol there.  Though I find the Reprise singles much stronger than the Capitol singles.  And of course, Sinatra owned Reprise at first, so he could do whatever he wanted.  Though obviously he had sold by the time they were dropping Bing Crosby and Jo Stafford and signing the West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band and the Fugs.  Bennett is a semi-acquired taste at best for me (and I've tried many times over the past 45 years), but he's a fascinating story, which I bet will make a great biopic some day soon.

[Teasing the Korean]

7 minutes ago, felser said:

...Back to the subject at hand, I find Sinatra's Reprise albums to not be nearly as compelling as his Capitol albums, so credit to Capitol there...

I kind of agree.  Frank's Reprise catalog to me has higher peaks than Capitol, but deeper valleys also.

That said, those early Reprise albums are killer, including Ring a Ding, Swingin' Brass, and the Basie album with Hefti charts.  There are other good albums sprinkled along the way (Jobim, Ellington, etc.), but there are some dogs too.

[JSngry]

Once you get past the title cut, Strangers In The Night is a really good record. Tempos for the ages and the last collaboration with Riddle. 

[Mark Stryker]

6 hours ago, JSngry said:

Totally, until I began exploring the full catalogue via Spotify 

FWIW, I put together this Playlist of some of Bennett's more jazz-influenced tracks (from his more jazz-influenced) records. Might be a place to hear some things that have eluded you.  

 

[Teasing the Korean]

1 hour ago, Mark Stryker said:

FWIW, I put together this Playlist of some of Bennett's more jazz-influenced tracks (from his more jazz-influenced) records. Might be a place to hear some things that have eluded you.  

 

When you say that Tony Bennett wasn't a jazz singer, is that because of what Tony said to you in 1991, or because he does not meet your criteria for a jazz singer?

[sgcim]

I think my opinion of TB is colored by my traumatic exposure to his acting in the movie "The Oscar".

I should probably go into therapy to deal with that...

[GA Russell]

Regarding Sinatra, his Capitol albums (the last of which was from 1960) sound to me like a young man with vigor.

Skip forward only five years to Strangers in the Night, and from then on, he sounded to me like a much older man.

Anyone else feel this way?

[Teasing the Korean]

10 minutes ago, GA Russell said:

Regarding Sinatra, his Capitol albums (the last of which was from 1960) sound to me like a young man with vigor.

Skip forward only five years to Strangers in the Night, and from then on, he sounded to me like a much older man.

Anyone else feel this way?

I hear a change after Wee Small Hours.  And then another change maybe in the mid-1960s.  He had a long career, so that is only natural.

[GA Russell]

26 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

I hear a change after Wee Small Hours.  And then another change maybe in the mid-1960s.  He had a long career, so that is only natural.

TTK, my thought is that from 1960 to 1965, he went from sounding 39 to sounding 55.