Everything Blue Note-related.

[Dmitry]

I'll start with this question: How much did Liberty Records pay Lion and Wolf for the label?

 

 

[Dan Gould]

Enough for Alfred to retire to Mexico but maybe not enough for Francis to retire himself?  I guess the story is that Alfred had health issues and I guess Wolff wanted to keep working?

[Dub Modal]

Just listened to Bobby Hutcherson's Patterns yesterday. Spaulding is the star of that record along with Rudy's production. The mood he built off of what these guys were playing is master class stuff. RVG unbelievably gets slogged at other audiophile forums but I guess that's what jealousy gets you. 

[Dmitry]

2 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

Enough for Alfred to retire to Mexico but maybe not enough for Francis to retire himself?  I guess the story is that Alfred had health issues and I guess Wolff wanted to keep working?

Lion worked for Liberty for 2 years after the sale, finally leaving in 1967. Liberty Records was bought by Transamerica in 1968 for $24,000,000.  I am wondering how much of that sale was BN's share of the Liberty portfolio? Liberty had previously had a small, but healthy number of Billboard Top 100 hits. Did Lion clear even a million when he sold to Liberty in 1965? I hope so...but I doubt it.

[JSngry]

By that time, Liberty also included Imperial, which had a buttload of charters, as well as Minit and, oh yeah, Pacific Jazz/World Pacific. 

And Dolton, for the Ventures fans in your house.

And Soul City, for The 5th Dimension fans everywhere. 

Just saying, by the time that Liberty sold to Transamerica, it was a really meaty group of holdings. 

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

i cant believe he died in Poway.  that is so crazy.  I never a local story about him but i THINK i heard he knew horace silver still who lived in like malibu or something

and the time 10 years ago when a trove of BN 78 metal stampers appeared on ebay aquired at the Kobeys Swap Meet

[Dmitry]

1 hour ago, chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez said:

i cant believe he died in Poway.  that is so crazy.  I never a local story about him but i THINK i heard he knew horace silver still who lived in like malibu or something

and the time 10 years ago when a trove of BN 78 metal stampers appeared on ebay aquired at the Kobeys Swap Meet

Who died in Poway?

1 hour ago, chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez said:

i cant believe he died in Poway.  that is so crazy.  I never a local story about him but i THINK i heard he knew horace silver still who lived in like malibu or something

and the time 10 years ago when a trove of BN 78 metal stampers appeared on ebay aquired at the Kobeys Swap Meet

Alvin and the chipmunks were in Liberty also, I read. People love that goofy stuff, must’ve made them millions, especially during Christmas time.

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, Dmitry said:

Alvin and the chipmunks were in Liberty also, I read.

So was Julie London. So were Garry Lewis & The Playboys. So was Bobby Vee. So were Jan & Dean. So was Canned Heat. So was Vicki Carr.

and that's just Liberty. Add in Imperial....

[Dmitry]

…which makes me wonder how much Lion (and Wolff?) received for their boutique label…

[Brad]

On 6/29/2023 at 11:00 AM, Dmitry said:

I'll start with this question: How much did Liberty Records pay Lion and Wolf for the label?

 

 

The only thing I’ve been able to find was that it was a seven figure transaction. 

[Eric]

25 minutes ago, Brad said:

The only thing I’ve been able to find was that it was a seven figure transaction. 

That was not chump change in the late 60s!

[Dmitry]

2 hours ago, Brad said:

The only thing I’ve been able to find was that it was a seven figure transaction. 

That's great to know. Is this something in literature? I just started reading Havers's Blue Note book.

[Gheorghe]

48 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

That's great to know. Is this something in literature? I just started reading Havers's Blue Note book.

How is it ? I only have Richard Cook´s Blue Note book. 

[Dmitry]

5 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

How is it ? I only have Richard Cook´s Blue Note book. 

It is a visual feast! I'll shoot a quick video of me leafing through it to show you what's inside the covers.

[Brad]

8 hours ago, Dmitry said:

That's great to know. Is this something in literature? I just started reading Havers's Blue Note book.

No, found it looking online. 

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

On 6/30/2023 at 8:11 AM, chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez said:

i cant believe he died in Poway.  that is so crazy.  I never a local story about him but i THINK i heard he knew horace silver still who lived in like malibu or something

and the time 10 years ago when a trove of BN 78 metal stampers appeared on ebay aquired at the Kobeys Swap Meet

Alfred Lion. 

[Dmitry]

I don't remember seeing these compilations. The logotype in the top right corner tells us these were the Transamerica releases. Well, that, and the date 1969.

 

[Big Beat Steve]

I saw several copies of these through the years. However, since at least the 1949-1959 volume was likely to overlap with most of what I already had I passed them up. I have a different pressing with a different cover (BN-LA-158) of the 1939-1949 volume, though.

[felser]

On 6/30/2023 at 2:06 PM, JSngry said:

So was Julie London. So were Garry Lewis & The Playboys. So was Bobby Vee. So were Jan & Dean. So was Canned Heat. So was Vicki Carr.

and that's just Liberty. Add in Imperial....

Imperial had Fats Domino, Ricky Nelson, Johnny Rivers, Jackie DeShannon, Cher, and US rights to the Hollies and some other British Invasion acts.

[JSngry]

Exactly. 

[Dmitry]

$24,000,000 in 1968 translates into over $200,000,000 today, according to this source.

https://www.officialdata.org/us/inflation/1968?amount=24000000
 

Regarding the BN sale to Liberty in 1965…was Wolff the partner or the employee of the label, and Lion was the sole owner? I’ve found this a bit confusing. Would be interesting to read the Purchase and Sale Agreement.

2 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

I saw several copies of these through the years. However, since at least the 1949-1959 volume was likely to overlap with most of what I already had I passed them up. I have a different pressing with a different cover (BN-LA-158) of the 1939-1949 volume, though.

I wouldn’t have bought any of these three compilations, just thought it strange that I don’t remember seeing them on record store shelves.

[Dan Gould]

I have never seen Wolff described as anything but partner, not employee. Whether it was exactly 50/50 and they did everything by consensus I don't know for certain, but I do think it was.

[Chuck Nessa]

I believe if Wolff was a partner, it was a minority partner. I remember a statement from Lion saying something to the effect "Al Bennett was a nice man and the agreement insured a position for Frank".

[Dmitry]

I think Al Bennett was the Alvin part of the "Alvin and the Chipmunks".

[JSngry]

I thought that "Dave Seville" did all three voices? 

Ross Bagdasarian (sp???)