Goodbye Astrud

[Teasing the Korean]

What makes a singer a Brazilian singer?  Being born in Brazil?  Singing Bossa, samba, MPB, or tropicalia? Singing in Portuguese? Singing with Brazilian musicians?  Consistently conveying the inherent sadness that you find in Bossa?

Of course Astrud will always be thought of as a Brazilian singer.  Her signature tune, after all, is "The Girl from Ipanema," and she is on the Meet the Beatles of Brazilian Invasion LPs.  When the 1990s Bossa revival occurred in the US, it was her earlier Brazilian-flavored tracks that were reissued, and not stuff like "Windy" or "Beginnings."  

But as someone who owns her entire Verve catalog, and many of the albums that came afterward, I can attest to the fact that Astrud by no means stayed in a Brazilian bag.  What she did and how she is perceived are too different things.

And I love her singing, whether she is or is not in a Brazilian bag.  The only tune I skip is the kitsch track with the kid singing.

 

[jazzbo]

11 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

What makes a singer a Brazilian singer?  Being born in Brazil?  Singing Bossa, samba, MPB, or tropicalia? Singing in Portuguese? Singing with Brazilian musicians?  Consistently conveying the inherent sadness that you find in Bossa?

Of course Astrud will always be thought of as a Brazilian singer.  Her signature tune, after all, is "The Girl from Ipanema," and she is on the Meet the Beatles of Brazilian Invasion LPs.  When the 1990s Bossa revival occurred in the US, it was her earlier Brazilian-flavored tracks that were reissued, and not stuff like "Windy" or "Beginnings."  

But as someone who owns her entire Verve catalog, and many of the albums that came afterward, I can attest to the fact that Astrud by no means stayed in a Brazilian bag.  What she did and how sheO

 

I have her entire Verve catalog as well. I consider her a Brazilian singer--she has the accent and she sings in a Brazilian style. Other Brazilian singers sang American and international songs as well. She was unfortunately not popular in Brazil. And she was an accidental star in a sense. I'm not a big fan. She just seems quintessentially Brazilian in her style and approach to me.

Edited June 8, 2023 by jazzbo

[Teasing the Korean]

3 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

I have her entire Verve catalog as well. I consider her a Brazilian singer--she has the accent and she sings in a Brazilian style. Other Brazilian singers sang American and international songs as well. She was unfortunately not popular in Brazil. And she was an accidental star in a sense. I'm not a big fan. She just seems quintessentially Brazilian in her style and approach to me.

I consider her a 1960s international jet set singer, like Claudine Longet.  I never think to spin her records if I am in a Brazilian bag, except for maybe the Verve solo debut.  C'est la vie.

[jazzbo]

Our tastes are very different so I wouldn't expect them to line up.

[Teasing the Korean]

5 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

Our tastes are very different so I wouldn't expect them to line up.

Not so much our tastes, but maybe our categorization methodologies.  The ways in which we interact with our accumulations also are worth considering.  I know people who file everything A-Z by artist, with no genre differentiators.  I could never do that.

[JSngry]

 

 

[jazzbo]

8 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Not so much our tastes, but maybe our categorization methodologies.  The ways in which we interact with our accumulations also are worth considering.  I know people who file everything A-Z by artist, with no genre differentiators.  I could never do that.

I have utter chaos in my collection, very little is filed in any order with only Miles, Dylan, Blue Note, Impulse, and Bethlehem really filed properly together. That's how I like it, I hunt and peck and get a variety of listening as a result.

I think it's our tastes and listening habits, I don't have any "genre" separation or classification. I don't listen at all to soundtracks, "international jet set singers," or anything exotic or lounge related, and don't drink so there's no "party" music. And I don't have any "Brazilian bags" . . . I might play a Brazilian artist after a Chicago style record or a Blue Note album.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by jazzbo

[Teasing the Korean]

5 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

...I might play a Brazilian artist after a Chicago style record...

Well, if you play Astrud's version of "Beginnings," you get Chicago and Brazil in one (lengthy) track!

[Brad]

1 hour ago, jazzbo said:

I have her entire Verve catalog as well. I consider her a Brazilian singer--she has the accent and she sings in a Brazilian style. Other Brazilian singers sang American and international songs as well. She was unfortunately not popular in Brazil. And she was an accidental star in a sense. I'm not a big fan. She just seems quintessentially Brazilian in her style and approach to me.

👍

[JSngry]

 

[felser]

I also have almost her entire English Language Verve Catalog, plus the CTI with Turrentine.   Easy to get a jump on the Verve titles with the collection below, you only have 'Shadow Of Your Smile', 'Beach Samba', and 'September 17, 1969' to pick up past this collection, assuming you have everything issued under Getz's name.  I'm only missing 'Beach Samba', and have all of the 'Shadow of Your Smile' tracks on 'The Silver Collection' rather than a release of the original album.

Edited June 8, 2023 by felser

[Teasing the Korean]

This is as good a place as any to say that Astrud with Gil Evans is probably one of the odder, and not in a good way, vocalist/arranger pairings I've heard.  It is probably my least played Astrud album.

I will also add here that my LP copy of The Shadow of Your Smile, which has the usual 11 tracks, shows a 12th track on the label that is not on the LP, nor listed on the cover.  It is Quincy Jones's theme from The Pawnbroker.  It is listed as the 5th track on side 2, between "Tristeza" and "Funny World."  I suppose it was yanked at the last minute, after some labels had been printed.  The melody may have been challenging for Astrud, but that's just a guess on my part.

[sgcim]

On 6/8/2023 at 2:32 PM, Teasing the Korean said:

This is as good a place as any to say that Astrud with Gil Evans is probably one of the odder, and not in a good way, vocalist/arranger pairings I've heard.  It is probably my least played Astrud album.

I will also add here that my LP copy of The Shadow of Your Smile, which has the usual 11 tracks, shows a 12th track on the label that is not on the LP, nor listed on the cover.  It is Quincy Jones's theme from The Pawnbroker.  It is listed as the 5th track on side 2, between "Tristeza" and "Funny World."  I suppose it was yanked at the last minute, after some labels had been printed.  The melody may have been challenging for Astrud, but that's just a guess on my part.

Yeah, you'd think a genius like Evans would've known that low brass playing in morbid clusters would not complement Astrud's voice. The only song I like is "Look to the Rainow". Just piano bass drums and sax. Tomorrow is a drag, man.

[Teasing the Korean]

16 hours ago, sgcim said:

Yeah, you'd think a genius like Evans would've known that low brass playing in morbid clusters would not complement Astrud's voice. The only song I like is "Look to the Rainow". Just piano bass drums and sax. Tomorrow is a drag, man.

It was just a bad idea.

Last night, Ms. TTK and I spun Astrud's Windy and September 17, 1969 LPs and we both picked up on a strong Claudine vibe, in terms of material, arrangements, and even Astrud's singing, which seemed at times to be mimicking Claudine.  

[JSngry]

IIRC, Gil was under contract to Verve and was assigned that project, about which he was not enthusiastic. 

[Teasing the Korean]

37 minutes ago, JSngry said:

IIRC, Gil was under contract to Verve and was assigned that project, about which he was not enthusiastic. 

I wonder why.

[JSngry]

Astrud did not command universal respect at that time. 

Read the Stephanie Stein Gil bio. A very good and illuminating read. 

[Teasing the Korean]

9 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Astrud did not command universal respect at that time. 

Read the Stephanie Stein Gil bio. A very good and illuminating read. 

Still, if you're an arranger under contract, you deliver what the job requires.  I love Gil Evans, but he apparently was not very adaptable.

[JSngry]

People might forget that Gil was old enough to have already done the "arranger for hire" thing in the 1940s. Plus, he was very stubborn about doing things on his own terms. Plus, he was at this point a notoriously slow worker (maybe or maybe not related to his cannabis habit?)

I think that Verve had greater expectations than what they actually got. 

Seriously, read the Stein bio. It's a fascinating read, and it explains a lot of things. 

[jazzcorner]

On 6/8/2023 at 7:12 PM, felser said:

I also have almost her entire English Language Verve Catalog, plus the CTI with Turrentine.   Easy to get a jump on the Verve titles with the collection below, you only have 'Shadow Of Your Smile', 'Beach Samba', and 'September 17, 1969' to pick up past this collection, assuming you have everything issued under Getz's name.  I'm only missing 'Beach Samba', and have all of the 'Shadow of Your Smile' tracks on 'The Silver Collection' rather than a release of the original album.

😁👍

[Teasing the Korean]

25 minutes ago, JSngry said:

People might forget that Gil was old enough to have already done the "arranger for hire" thing in the 1940s. Plus, he was very stubborn about doing things on his own terms. Plus, he was at this point a notoriously slow worker (maybe or maybe not related to his cannabis habit?)

I think that Verve had greater expectations than what they actually got. 

Seriously, read the Stein bio. It's a fascinating read, and it explains a lot of things. 

All of which makes sense.  I will put that bio on my reading list.

[felser]

Just ordered it.  I have the 'Castles Made of Sand' bio (which I never got around to reading), but this one sounds better.

[sgcim]

6 hours ago, JSngry said:

IIRC, Gil was under contract to Verve and was assigned that project, about which he was not enthusiastic. 

Unfortunately, that was the case back then; it was the record companies' ideas that dictated who should play with whom. Someone at Verve (maybe Creed Taylor) figured, 'hey they're both hot properties, maybe they'll make some money for us'.  

If they were really on the ball, they'd get Deodato to do the job, and do it right, like TTK intimated . Look what he did with Stanley Turrentine. Then look what Astrud and Stanley did together; both collaborations pure bliss.

What did Astrud have to do with Gil Evans' type of writing? When Frankie Dunlop heard her name, all he could say was, "Ah, the golden showers!" Did Gil have anything to do with that type of stuff? Wait, don't answer that question...

 

6 hours ago, JSngry said:

Astrud did not command universal respect at that time. 

Read the Stephanie Stein Gil bio. A very good and illuminating read. 

I read the Stein bio, and it's buried deep within whatever part of the brain of where that stuff goes, and probably informs what I posted without me even being aware of it.

I've read the bios of all the greats; I'm even going to be reading the bio of Richard Twardzic by the end of the month, and that's not an easy goal to accomplish!

[GA Russell]

13 minutes ago, sgcim said:

Someone at Verve (maybe Creed Taylor) figured, 'hey they're both hot properties, maybe they'll make some money for us'.  

As a matter of fact, they did, didn't they?  I always got the impression that that was her best-selling album under her name.  Am I wrong?

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, felser said:

Just ordered it.  I have the 'Castles Made of Sand' bio (which I never got around to reading), but this one sounds better.

They're both recommended, but the Stein seems to have more of an inside perspective about Gil the person, which in turn seems to illuminate Gil the artist, especially in terms of work habits and productivity.