Women and Mosaic Records

[mjazzg]

33 minutes ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

Oh give me a break!  They've published numerous female vocalists.  They're output is probably quite proportional to the jazz of the periods they cover.  I don't buy the charge of sexism at all.  Where's the evidence? None.  I regard it as bullshit. Unfair and unwarranted innuendo.

I deleted my post, but obviously not quickly enough., not because I don't stand my plea for a consideration but because I decided I really don't want to get into "The Mosaic Wars".  No record label really means that much to me, I'm afraid.  

Edit to add:  out of 315 releases listed on Mosaic's site (excluding singles), by my quick count 7 feature exclusively female lead artists, two of which are female/male collaborations

Edited May 15, 2023 by mjazzg

[Stompin at the Savoy]

3 hours ago, Face of the Bass said:

I imagine this would have been a more fruitful discussion somewhere else, perhaps a forum that isn't crawling with Mosaic fans who just want to document the growth of their collections as consumers rather than think about the music more deeply. There also seems to be a general resistance here to talking about the politics of representation in jazz, as this is now seen as "woke," which I don't think anyone who uses that term would be able to define. 

Whatever. 

That sounds an awful lot like you are accusing people here of crass consumerism and insensitivity to music.  I find it offensive.  It's ad hominem attack.  I advise you to drop the attitude. 

As far as being resistant to political implications... it's just such a shitty, wrong example you've hit on to try to pillory Mosaic.  You can put on the Berkeleyer than thou attitude but it won't work here because it's just wrong.  No support and quite a bit of evidence against.  Come on, you are accusing two people of sexism, two people we are very familiar with and have done business with for decades.  It's not right to fling accusation and innuendo around like some sort of ... discussion board Tucker Carlson. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Stompin at the Savoy

[jazzbo]

2 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

We just had a few participants asking the OP to leave and/or to stop posting.  The OP is free to express an opinion, just as we all are free to either join in or ignore the conversation. 

That's compounded negativity, which yields a lot more than most financial accounts.

[Stompin at the Savoy]

37 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

I deleted my post, but obviously not quickly enough., not because I don't stand my plea for a consideration but because I decided I really don't want to get into "The Mosaic Wars".  No record label really means that much to me, I'm afraid.  

Edit to add:  out of 315 releases listed on Mosaic's site (excluding singles), by my quick count 7 feature exclusively female lead artists, two of which are female/male collaborations

Not part of the Mosaic wars but can't resist one last... Haha whatever

This is really cherry-picking statistics, isn't it?  How many lead male vocalists did they have?  I'm sorry but this is all so specious!  They publish what they can license and what they can sell.  They are a private company and are not required to meet somebody's politically correct ratios of male to female artists published.  Somebody, maybe you, said previously I'm just assuming they aren't sexist.  But whasisname is assuming they are sexist!  What I am doing is extending the benefit of the doubt when there is no credible evidence to the contrary.

[mjazzg]

11 minutes ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

Not part of the Mosaic wars but can't resist one last... Haha whatever

This is really cherry-picking statistics, isn't it?  How many lead male vocalists did they have?  I'm sorry but this is all so specious!  They publish what they can license and what they can sell.  They are a private company and are not required to meet somebody's politically correct ratios of male to female artists published.  Somebody, maybe you, said previously I'm just assuming they aren't sexist.  But whasisname is assuming they are sexist!  What I am doing is extending the benefit of the doubt when there is no credible evidence to the contrary.

Vocalists? Who mentioned vocalists of either gender? I didn't

I just provided some facts - of 315 releases, 5 featured females as the lead artist, the focus of the boxset., 2 others had a male/female partnership as the focus of the compilation. The rest were male. I didn't make any statement as to sexism or not from those facts.  Others can do that. 

I thought the figures might be useful as I'm not sure they've figured in the discussion, certainly not recently.

[Stompin at the Savoy]

21 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

Vocalists? Who mentioned vocalists of either gender? I didn't

I just provided some facts - of 315 releases, 5 featured females as the lead artist, the focus of the boxset., 2 others had a male/female partnership as the focus of the compilation. The rest were male. I didn't make any statement as to sexism or not from those facts.  Others can do that. 

I thought the figures might be useful as I'm not sure they've figured in the discussion, certainly not recently.

The problem is these figures are meaningless unless we consider the context of how many female jazz artists were there during the period Mosaic covers.  How many female trumpeters?  How many of them led a band?  Etc.  Statistics of female versus male leads getting Mosaic treatment don't tell the full story.  In fact they are misleading.  These stats tell us nothing without reference to the bigger statistics: what kind of representation as players and leaders did women have during this period?    

[Dmitry]

Even the seemingly inclusive company name will not protect Mosaic Records. The new commissars are coming for it...

[Teasing the Korean]

16 hours ago, Dmitry said:

Even the seemingly inclusive company name will not protect Mosaic Records. 

Maybe change it to "Prosaic," with minimal costs involved in changing the logo.

[mikeweil]

17 hours ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

The problem is these figures are meaningless unless we consider the context of how many female jazz artists were there during the period Mosaic covers.  How many female trumpeters?  How many of them led a band?  Etc.  Statistics of female versus male leads getting Mosaic treatment don't tell the full story.  In fact they are misleading.  These stats tell us nothing without reference to the bigger statistics: what kind of representation as players and leaders did women have during this period?    

I have similar thoughts. You have to consider the percentage of women on any instrument. The majority are vocalists or pianists. This has changed only since the 1970's. In this respect Mosaic's releases only reflect the respective numbers among recordings actually released.

That said, there are others factors than gender involved - how many great musicians are under-recorded?

[Dmitry]

32 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Maybe change it to "Prosaic," with minimal costs involved in changing the logo.

Cut the "i", and all will be good.

[Brad]

23 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

We just had a few participants asking the OP to leave and/or to stop posting.  The OP is free to express an opinion, just as we all are free to either join in or ignore the conversation. 

Everyone is free to post an opinion but making the same point over and over serves no purpose. Once you make your point there is no need to constantly repeat it. 

[JSngry]

Bill Barron. 

[Teasing the Korean]

36 minutes ago, Brad said:

Everyone is free to post an opinion but making the same point over and over serves no purpose. Once you make your point there is no need to constantly repeat it. 

Unless people keep responding.  The OP was called out by two participants for deleting his/her posts and then returning to the conversation, as though we have specific rules about his.  

[Face of the Bass]

I deleted my original posts because one user decided to attack my ability to do my job, during Teacher Appreciation Week, in a time period (post-pandemic) when it is extraordinarily difficult, demanding, and stressful to be a teacher. (Dan Gould). 

Honestly, I don't want to be on this board at all anymore and don't want anything to do with Organissimo. I reached out to a moderator asking to have my profile deleted (this is apparently not possible on my end). This will be my last post and I ask that no one contact me anymore from here. My life is stressful enough as it is. 

If the thread cannot be deleted by moderators, if the profile cannot be deleted, just leave it alone. 

[Stompin at the Savoy]

1 hour ago, Face of the Bass said:

I deleted my original posts because one user decided to attack my ability to do my job, during Teacher Appreciation Week, in a time period (post-pandemic) when it is extraordinarily difficult, demanding, and stressful to be a teacher. (Dan Gould). 

Honestly, I don't want to be on this board at all anymore and don't want anything to do with Organissimo. I reached out to a moderator asking to have my profile deleted (this is apparently not possible on my end). This will be my last post and I ask that no one contact me anymore from here. My life is stressful enough as it is. 

If the thread cannot be deleted by moderators, if the profile cannot be deleted, just leave it alone. 

No, you deleted your posts because you wanted to.  Nobody made you do it.  I have no objection to you continuing to post here but I think if you want to continue you must drop the attitude of contempt toward other posters.

[JSngry]

Ok, this thread has run its course. We very seldom delete entire threads, and I cannot delete the OP's profile. So, ok, thread locked, thank you all for playing.