Charles Mingus Complete 1970s Atlantic box set

[Chuck Nessa]

Not sure how anyone can have a "real" grasp of Mingus without knowing the material from the 1956-1961 era.

[mhatta]

32 minutes ago, BFrank said:

Agreed. That 56-61 box is a must have. I have never even listened to the interview disk. 

Somehow "The Clown" outtakes (take 24 to 47 I assume)  survived.  I hope Rhino issued this instead of lengthy interviews...

[Gheorghe]

2 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

Not sure how anyone can have a "real" grasp of Mingus without knowing the material from the 1956-1961 era.

Well, in my case it was 1964 with the touring band Dolphy, Jordan, Byard. And this was only my 2nd jazz LP (actualle a 3 LP-set) that I owned when I was a kid. 
But you are right, my second Mingus LP was something my mother bought for me "Wendesday Night Prayer Meeting" and it gave me similar fascination, maybe the Dolphy material exited me even more, but Wendesday Night Paryer Meeting still remains my favourite earlier Mingus Stuff. 
But don´t forget I´m from the younger generation and Mingus was top billing when I was young. That´s the two musicians I heard live in the 70´s: Miles (electric) and Mingus, every hipster here in Vienna mentioned Mingus. 
I´d say Mingus was a main inspiration for my musical developement.....

[clifford_thornton]

I started with the Changes set in the 90s and went backwards. Never had the box but was able to pick up vinyl issues of the earlier Atlantics pretty easily at the time.

Pre-Bird is probably my easiest go-to (for some reason) but Blues & Roots and Pithecanthropus Erectus aren't far behind.

[JSngry]

11 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

Not sure how anyone can have a "real" grasp of Mingus without knowing the material from the 1956-1961 era.

I'd stretch that out a few years both ways, but yeah. 

[felser]

Need to include 'The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady' and 'Let My Children Hear Music' for sure to have a full understanding of Mingus.  I'd say something like 1954-1975 for his prime.  He kept evolving in different directions.  Wish he had recorded in the late 60's.

[clifford_thornton]

Black Saint is a wonderful album. I haven't spent much time with the latter -- I've heard it, but didn't connect with it at the time I listened.

[JSngry]

You maybe have to learn to internalize the splices. Like, INTENSE/SPLICE/INTENSE/SPLICE

But ultimately and quickly, oh well about that.

 

[Jim Duckworth]

I find Tijuana Moods essential as well.

[JSngry]

A good starting guideline is if a Mingus record has Jimmy Knepper, Shafi Hadi, Booker Ervin, Eric Dolphy, Jacki Byard, or Clifford Jordan on it and you haven't heard it, then you now have an opportunity of which to avail yourself, and to good end.

That's for starters, but it's a good start imo. 

[Stompin at the Savoy]

I started out with about 10 Mingus disks.  I just ordered another 13.  The message I am getting from this thread is I need another 50 or so, otherwise I'll never 'really' understand Mingus.  😄

I had an discussion/argument with a relative recently about Taylor Swift.  I listened to the tracks you mentioned, I said, and it all seems like formula Hollywood pop rock, bubblegum stuff.  No solos worth listening to, yatta yatta.  You have to listen to several albums before you can appreciate her, I was told.  Harrumphf, I thought.  Not bloody likely.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Stompin at the Savoy

[JSngry]

Taylor Swift is a pretty interesting person, imo.

But Mingus made great music and was an interesting person AND had an evolving revolving cast of interesting players who were also interesting people.

And no two records from the time suggested are really alike.

So... yeah. This is not Taylor Swift we're talking about here, although again, she is a very interesting person 

[felser]

16 minutes ago, JSngry said:

So... yeah. This is not Taylor Swift we're talking about here, although again, she is a very interesting person 

Good businesswoman.

[clifford_thornton]

2 hours ago, Jim Duckworth said:

I find Tijuana Moods essential as well.

Yes, excellent though I must say it's been years since I've had it on deck.

Has the Birdland material with Toshiko, Pepper Adams, et al. been legitimately issued? I have the BAT Italian bootleg LPs from the 1980s. Strong sessions.

[jazzbo]

35 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

 

Has the Birdland material with Toshiko, Pepper Adams, et al. been legitimately issued? I have the BAT Italian bootleg LPs from the 1980s. Strong sessions.

Unfortunately, NO.

[T.D.]

There have been a whole lot of Mingus reissues the past several years. Hasn't been easy to keep up, and non-completists have had to make decisions. Much of this set is music I have to get, but I haven't decided whether to spring for the box or selectively buy some key albums.

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, felser said:

Good businesswoman.

And an interesting barometer of social trends, at least some of them. I think one ignores her at risk of missing out. Not musically, but it's her music that puts her in this place of influence to begin with. 

[T.D.]

3 minutes ago, JSngry said:

And an interesting barometer of social trends, at least some of them. I think one ignores her at risk of missing out. Not musically, but it's her music that puts her in this place of influence to begin with. 

Believe it or not, I've heard a boatload of her music. Live in a rural area, like to listen to radio while driving, but there are very few stations in my immediate area (have to drive a half hour to get within range of decent programming). One of the available stations plays her songs with astonishing frequency.

There's worse stuff to listen to. Some lyrics come off as whiny / self-indulgent / narcissistic, but I don't suppose that's unusual (or ever has been within the "singer/songwriter" genre). As far as social trends, I dunno...I've been way out of touch with "pop culture", whatever that is, for decades. She seems to be making more money than God, so must be doing something right. 😄

[Gheorghe]

7 hours ago, T.D. said:

There have been a whole lot of Mingus reissues the past several years. Hasn't been easy to keep up, and non-completists have had to make decisions. Much of this set is music I have to get, but I haven't decided whether to spring for the box or selectively buy some key albums.

I think if it is about completists or non-completists, I might be the most non-non guy on this board. In any case I don´t need more than one album from a certain period, I have from the early days a  1) "Mingus Quintet with Max Roach" (a misunderstanding by me when I bought it, since I had hoped that it has TWO drummers , I mean Willie Jones AND Max Roach together, and was quite disappointed that it is a pretty fair straight ahead thing. 

I have 2) Blues and Roots, 3) Black Saint and Sinner Lady, 4) The Great Paris Concert 1964, 5) Blue Bird (very very weak and disappointing), and the Atlantic recordings each of them since I have been a huge Mingus fan since the first half of the 70´s and enjoyed the times when you bought each year a new record from your idols whom you saw live. 

I nevertheless think I understand Mingus´ music. I heard other stuff at somebody´s places too, and saw Mingus on TV and above all saw him live, and more than that, checked out his voicings on certain tunes, playing some "Mingus" on piano, and in my youth as a part time contrabassist too, and though the bass fiddle was never my main instrument, I practiced hard on it and astonished some bass players by doing "Mingus like" solos on the bass. 

 

P.S: I had to google Taylor Swift, one positive thing: Her´s a woman who wears pantyhose , I like that. 

[clifford_thornton]

I still need the Ronnie's set. After that I think I'm good.

Have all the early Atlantics, Savoy, Bethlehem, Period, some Debut, 59 Columbia, Candid, most of the 60s/early 70s boots, Americas, JWS, and a few Mercury/Impulse/RCA outliers on LP. Uptown, Strata concert, Japanese Columbia (with the New Herd) on CD.

[Dub Modal]

I think all of these albums stream so I’ll skip the box. And George Adams doesn’t bother me at all. 

As for Taylor Swift, her last 2 albums are really good pop records. She has some updated 80s inspired synth elements that are perfect if you like that sort of thing. 

[felser]

4 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

I still need the Ronnie's set. After that I think I'm good.

The Ronnie's set is amazingly good.  Also be sure to pick up 'Mingus in Wonderland' on UA if you don't have it.  Ervin, Handy, strong repertoire.   And the Jordan/McPherson material on the Jazz Workshop Mosaic is strong.

[clifford_thornton]

oh yes, I have that UA -- great one.

[JSngry]

The Uptown set of the Baron Mingus LA stuff is historically very interesting. Of a checking out, it is worthy.

[clifford_thornton]

Yup, and includes a wonderful book as well.