Charles Mingus Complete 1970s Atlantic box set

[felser]

1 hour ago, T.D. said:

I'm likely to buy the set for precisely those reasons. But I'm a Philistine and cheapskate.

Me too, have unloaded countless great Mosaic big boxes as the music becomes available in different configurations, and awaiting more opportunities to do so.  Money and shelf space are both finite resources (and alas, so is listening time).

[T.D.]

7 minutes ago, felser said:

Me too, have unloaded countless great Mosaic big boxes as the music becomes available in different configurations, and awaiting more opportunities to do so.  Money and shelf space are both finite resources (and alas, so is listening time).

Yeah, I've been downsizing for a few years and shelf space is a significant deal. I've been jettisoning a lot of books, with more to go. Haven't gotten to the point of selling box sets, as that's a major hassle.

Recently turned 65, agree on listening time and money.

[Ken Dryden]

Glad I haven’t run out of money, shelf space or time yet…

[Dub Modal]

On 5/5/2023 at 5:40 PM, kh1958 said:

The vice president goes record shopping.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CrzKcPNg-Lw/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=embed_video_watch_again

I'm way too cynical to believe she actually listened to these. 

9 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

Moves ....I try to tell why I don´t like it so much: Somehow the bass articulation of Mingus or the interaction with Danny is not as good as on all other occasions. Some stuff sounds quite half hearted, that Opus which is just the changes of "Pyticantropus Erectus", that boring "Canon" , the vocals that I don´t really like. 
 

The Mingus I saw live had much more tension in it, I heard versions of "Fables" and of "Sue´s Changes" that really surprised me, and the live versions of "Three or Four Shades" as well as of "Cumbia". About Cumbia: From the sound with the augmented band that´s very interesting, but the live versions just the working quinted were somewhat faster and the drumming was fantastic. So I like both the studio Cumbia and the live Cumbia, and the live "Three or Four Shades" is not so overproduced, they didn´t have to record a Jimmy Rowles separatly for that little waltz in it, and the Afro Cuban parts were much sharper in the small combo. 

Nice take. I haven't heard live Cumbia so need to check that out. 

[kh1958]

7 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

I'm way too cynical to believe she actually listened to these. 

 

Sure, she was going for the vast jazz fan swing vote. Actually,she was on the board of SF Jazz so presumably she is an actual jazz fan (and she sounds like one in the clip). The attached article has a photo of her with Bobby Hutcherson.

https://londonjazznews.com/2020/11/10/kamala-harris-and-jazz-to-be-continued/

 

[Stompin at the Savoy]

That was so great seeing Kamala Harris enthusing about jazz records!  OMG not all jazz fans are old, white men!

Every once in a while I think about selling off my many Mosaic sets.  And then I don't.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Stompin at the Savoy

[Mark Stryker]

9 hours ago, T.D. said:

Thanks. I have the Bremen and it's very good, better than I expected.

Nitpicking, but you meant the new Rhino set (p.1 upthread), not Mosaic (emphasis added), right?

[There have been so many tedious and pointless "what if" Mosaic threads of late that the word spooked me. 🤣]

Yes, I meant Rhino of course. Made the correction, thanks 

[JSngry]

That Roy Ayers record was a HUGE crossover record back in the day and hasn't really stopped yet.

Hell, I still like it. 

Oh, regarding Cumbia, Dannie got busy with that one right away:

 

[Gheorghe]

5 hours ago, JSngry said:

That Roy Ayers record was a HUGE crossover record back in the day and hasn't really stopped yet.

Hell, I still like it. 

Oh, regarding Cumbia, Dannie got busy with that one right away:

 

Yes, and this was the second time I saw Mingus live, this band with Mingus playing. And on the tour, they played Cumbia very often. Before they came to Europe in July, they were doing South America, and I had a tape of a whole concert from Buenos Aires, which had the best version of "Cumbia" from the whole tour. Later I had a record with the Buenos Aires stuff, but it´s strange that Cumbia is missing and is replaced by a version of "Duke Ellington´s sound of Love", which he did not play in Europe ! 
I think the band toured very very much in that year. After Europe they did North Africa but I never found recordings from there, and after that he toured several cities in the southern States of USA. 
I think I remember he was scheduled for November here in Europe to perform with Larry Coryell and I was planning to go up to Germany to hear it (was it Dortmund or Koln ?), but it was chancelled. I never forget how disappointed I was. 

[mikeweil]

19 hours ago, felser said:

 Money and shelf space are both finite resources (and alas, so is listening time).

These are the reasons why I will probably rather not buy this set. I still have so much unplayed discs lying around here and filling the shelves. 

Plus, I'm afraid it won't fascinate me musically as much as I would hope for. I missed Mingus playing in a local club around the time he record the "Moves" album, we were caught in a traffic jam and arived late when it was already sold out. What sounded up from the basement to the ticket counter was George Adams wailing who never thrilled me so much.

Edited May 9, 2023 by mikeweil

[Gheorghe]

15 hours ago, mikeweil said:

These are the reasons why I will probably rather not buy this set. I still have so much unplayed discs lying around here and filling the shelves. 

Plus, I'm afraid it won't fascinate me musically as much as I would hope for. I missed Mingus playing in a local club around the time he record the "Moves" album, we were caught in a traffic jam and arived late when it was already sold out. What sounded up from the basement to the ticket counter was George Adams wailing who never thrilled me so much.

Mingus in a local club around the time he recorded the "Moves" album ? Can´t remember that or was underage and could go only to concerts that started and ended earlier. About George Adams, well on the tour band from 1975 I thought it was very exiting, with Sue´s Changes as a wonderful new Mingus opus, with all those tensions between very soft and very powerful into dissonances. But I missed George Adams live, at least with the Mingus Band. When I heard them for the first time, Adams shortly before that concert had been replaced by Ricky Ford who might have appealed much more to you if you didn´t like George Adams. 

Nor I would buy the set because anyway I have the individual LPs which I bought every year when the next came out. 
I didn´t know that "Moves" was so important for many of the members here. In my opinion it was a half hearted and sometimes unsure try to organize a steady band. And I was quite shocked who unsure the colaboration between Danny and Mingus was here, a far cry from the dream team from years earlier or again a year later. 
I also got as a present once a strange 3 CD set I think live from Detroit 1973, which I think already has Don Pullen on it, but Roy Brooks on drums and somehow I didn´t enjoy it. Most Mingus stuff from the early 70´s to me was somehow half hearted and proves a lack of real interest of Mingus in what he was doing. 
My own impressions were coroborated by a statement of Arrigo Pollilo (a famous italian critic and writer from that time) who stated that Mingus reallly got back to his act when he had that steady  band with Adams/Pullen and the later replacements for them. 
Interesting is the role of Jack Walrath. In the first years of the band he got less solo spot, and his importance increased in the following years. His playing in the last touring band 1977 was a highlight of all the shows. His latin influenced solos on the respective sections the suite-like compositions of those days were incredible. 

[kh1958]

The price of the CD box set has dropped to $51 on amazon.

[felser]

32 minutes ago, kh1958 said:

The price of the CD box set has dropped to $51 on amazon.

Yes, saw that.  That price is from Zoverstocks in England, so $3.99 shipping plus the time of the overseas delivery, but great price.  I had pre-ordered from importcd's at $58.75 + $2.99 shipping, so can't take advantage of the Zoverstocks price.

[Stompin at the Savoy]

 

[AllenLowe]

I should probably go back and listen, but I saw this version of Mingus a fair amount in that time and two soloists who I cannot listen to are Ricky Ford (who I don't think is on this) and George Adams. I find Adams to be mannered and annoying, full of bombast with little substance; each solo is basically the same, with some slight harmonic variations. So I will probably avoid this.

[clifford_thornton]

a little Adams goes a long way, yes.

[Stompin at the Savoy]

I listened to the first couple albums on Spotify. I especially like Don Pullen on piano on these. Some other things I had heard from him were very dissonant, muscular, and far out there. This is much more conventional harmony and more swinging.  The price is low and they appear to have packaged them as mini lp covers with the original artwork, which I like.  I decided to plunk for the set.

[clifford_thornton]

Changes One and Two are pretty great and indispensable in my opinion. I haven't delved too deeply into the other Atlantic albums (save for Antibes 1960). Pullen is a wonderful player, really encompasses the gamut of what the piano can do.

[Guy Berger]

6 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

Changes One and Two are pretty great and indispensable in my opinion. I haven't delved too deeply into the other Atlantic albums (save for Antibes 1960). Pullen is a wonderful player, really encompasses the gamut of what the piano can do.

WHAT?!?!?!  50 hours of remedial listening to Blues & Roots, post-haste [your Antibes comment suggests you are talking about the Atlantic years more broadly, not just the 1970s Atlantics]

[clifford_thornton]

Yes, I meant the 70s issued Atlantics. Antibes was issued in the 1970s, first as a Japanese BYG and then by Atlantic.

[JSngry]

I like Adams just fine. He's always  good for a well-defined statement. At least, once he gained his footing.

[felser]

6 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Yes, I meant the 70s issued Atlantics. Antibes was issued in the 1970s, first as a Japanese BYG and then by Atlantic.

The title track from 'Pithecanthropus Erectus' was a landmark in 1956, and 1957's 'The Clown' has the peerless Haitian Fight Song" as well as the original 'Peggy's Blue Skylight".  'Oh Yeah' has Mingus on piano, with Booker Ervin and Rahsaan Roland Kirk on tenor.  "Hog Callin' Blues" from that one is not to be missed.  You can get it all, the aforementioned 'Blues and Roots'  and 'Antibes' sets and more on this great CD set, will set you back less than $50.

 

[T.D.]

3 hours ago, felser said:

The title track from 'Pithecanthropus Erectus' was a landmark in 1956, and 1957's 'The Clown' has the peerless Haitian Fight Song" as well as the original 'Peggy's Blue Skylight".  'Oh Yeah' has Mingus on piano, with Booker Ervin and Rahsaan Roland Kirk on tenor.  "Hog Callin' Blues" from that one is not to be missed.  You can get it all, the aforementioned 'Blues and Roots'  and 'Antibes' sets and more on this great CD set, will set you back less than $50.

 

Big  on this box, strongly recommended. I really enjoy it, though to be honest I don't expect to listen to the interview disc again.

[Stompin at the Savoy]

4 hours ago, felser said:

The title track from 'Pithecanthropus Erectus' was a landmark in 1956, and 1957's 'The Clown' has the peerless Haitian Fight Song" as well as the original 'Peggy's Blue Skylight".  'Oh Yeah' has Mingus on piano, with Booker Ervin and Rahsaan Roland Kirk on tenor.  "Hog Callin' Blues" from that one is not to be missed.  You can get it all, the aforementioned 'Blues and Roots'  and 'Antibes' sets and more on this great CD set, will set you back less than $50.

 

I've heard most of this but don't have most of the albums and it has been on my wish list for many years.  When you pointed out that it is quite inexpensive nowadays I took a look and bought one on discogs for 37 bux.  Might as well get the big, broad outlook since I just went for the 70's box.

[BFrank]

Agreed. That 56-61 box is a must have. I have never even listened to the interview disk.