Jimmy Heath and Coltrane

[John L]

The Jimmy Heath solo here at 1:42, particularly the entry, has always sounded very Coltranesque to me.   But this was recorded in April, 1953.  Was Coltrane himself that Coltranesque back then?   Were they working this out together in Philadelphia?   Thoughts?

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by John L

[danasgoodstuff]

I can certainly hear than and I'm pretty sure they knew each other then, but I don't know how closely they were working on things.

[jazzbo]

Both Heath and Coltrane started off on alto, so there may be a core sound similarity at some point due to moving from the one horn to the other.

I found this on wiki:

In 1946, Jimmy formed his own band, which was a fixture on the Philadelphia jazz scene until 1949.^[3] The band included John Coltrane, Benny Golson, Specs Wright, Cal Massey, Johnny Coles, Ray Bryant, and Nelson Boyd. Charlie Parker and Max Roach sat in on one occasion.^[4] The band performed at venues such as the Apollo Theater in Harlem. Although Heath recalls that the band recorded a few demos on acetate, it never released any recordings, and its arrangements were lost at a Chicago train station. The band dissolved in 1949 so that Heath could join Dizzy Gillespie's band.^[5]

By 1953 both had been in and out of Gillespie's band.

[John L]

When we hear a tenor player sounding like Coltrane, we usually assume that it is because of the influence of Coltrane.  But I wonder if, in the case of Jimmy Heath, some of the influence also went in the other direction.

 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by John L

[JSngry]

Benny Golson, in some old Cadence interview, said that Coltrane wasn't anything unique for him at first, because he was just another Philly cat who was working on the same stuff at the same time. He was just one of them. Golson and Heath were too. 

And then there's Jimmy Oliver, whose name you hear a lot, but recorded evidence is sparse at best. 

 

[John L]

  On 4/3/2023 at 3:28 AM, JSngry said:

Benny Golson, in some old Cadence interview, said that Coltrane wasn't anything unique for him at first, because he was just another Philly cat who was working on the same stuff at the same time. He was just one of them. Golson and Heath were too. 

And then there's Jimmy Oliver, whose name you hear a lot, but recorded evidence is sparse at best. 

 

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It would be an interesting research project for someone like Lewis Porter to document as much as possible the emergence of a Philadelphia school of tenor saxophone.  Unfortunately, most of the people who could have contributed new key information for this have already left us.  

[Ken Dryden]

Both Jimmy Heath and Benny Goldings published autobiographies, so maybe we should check them.

[felser]

  On 4/3/2023 at 3:28 AM, JSngry said:

Benny Golson, in some old Cadence interview, said that Coltrane wasn't anything unique for him at first, because he was just another Philly cat who was working on the same stuff at the same time. He was just one of them. Golson and Heath were too. 

And then there's Jimmy Oliver, whose name you hear a lot, but recorded evidence is sparse at best. 

 

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Also Billy Root, and later in the decade, Bootsie Barnes and Larry McKenna.

[Michael Weiss]

Jimmy told me that he and Trane would assign themselves particular Bird solos to transcribe and share with each other.