Helping Mosaic by Suggesting Artists and Sets, Part Deux

[Dan Gould]

There's a Schildkraut photo and cassette from the gig pictured in the Gaskin Papers (I know, not really apropos to the subject of the thread but I thought this was pretty cool and Allen's post gave me an excuse to share).

Leonard Gaskin Papers, Archives Center, National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution

[Mark Stryker]

On 4/3/2023 at 12:29 PM, bresna said:

I've always thought that Mosaic picked the wrong label for their Sonny Stitt box. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of great tunes on that Roost box but there are also some clunkers. Plus, I've never actually gone searching for those old Roost records. They should have done Stitt's Muse records. On the whole, I think Stitt hits a lot more highs than lows throughout his Muse records and I pull those Muse CDs off the shelf way more often than the Mosaic Roost set. I actually don't even remember the last time I listened to it.

I could not disagree more. While I have said in print that in a one-artist, one-record challenge for Stitt, I would take "Constellation" (Cobblestone/Muse, 1972), the Roost recordings include a number of Stitt's finest LPs -- particularly "Sonny Stitt with the New Yorkers,"  "Sonny Stitt Plays Music from the Pen of Quincy Jones," and "Sonny  Stitt Plays." These records and others in the Mosaic box are damn hard to find otherwise, and for that reason, plus their high quality, it's one of the Mosaic sets I play the most. 

As for the Muse records, the first two, "Tune-Up" and "Constellation," are unquestionably top-shelf Stitt, but after that not so much. "12" has some find moments too -- GREAT trio of Barry, Sam, Louis -- but I don't think Stitt quite captures the consistently inspired spark of the first two. 

YMMV 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Mark Stryker

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, Mark Stryker said:

As for the Muse records, the first two, "Tune-Up" and "Constellation," are unquestionably top-shelf Stitt...

Cobblestone, not Muse.

It's a quibble, but a true one.

[HutchFan]

1 hour ago, Mark Stryker said:

As for the Muse records, the first two, "Tune-Up" and "Constellation," are unquestionably top-shelf Stitt, but after that not so much. "12" has some find moments too -- GREAT trio of Barry, Sam, Louis -- but I don't think Stitt quite captures the consistently inspired spark of the first two. 

I'm with @bresna on this one.  I think Stitt's entire Cobblestone/Muse series with Barry Harris & Sam Jones (and various drummers) is terrific.  

The two Cobblestones you mentioned are routinely named as some of Stitt's best -- and they're probably the most overtly "boppish."  But I think the records that follow are every bit as interesting -- and more varied.  Blues for Duke, 12!, My Buddy, and Sonny's Back.  I listen to these as much as any Stitt records.

That's my 2 cents. 

 

[Chuck Nessa]

1 hour ago, HutchFan said:

I'm with @bresna on this one.  I think Stitt's entire Cobblestone/Muse series with Barry Harris & Sam Jones (and various drummers) is terrific.  

The two Cobblestones you mentioned are routinely named as some of Stitt's best -- and they're probably the most overtly "boppish."  But I think the records that follow are every bit as interesting -- and more varied.  Blues for Duke, 12!, My Buddy, and Sonny's Back.  I listen to these as much as any Stitt records.

That's my 2 cents. 

 

BUT the Roost/Roulette sides had been mostly unavailable for decades and the audience had much easier access the the Cobblestone/Muse material.

[HutchFan]

1 minute ago, Chuck Nessa said:

BUT the Roost/Roulette sides had been mostly unavailable for decades and the audience had much easier access the the Cobblestone/Muse material.

True.  Can't argue with that.

 

[JSngry]

I think that Muse (not Cobblestone) is the sound of a man slowly and inevitably burning out. His last Blindfold Test is almost heartbreaking. 

There's a definite poignancy to that. 

[mikeweil]

Back to main topic: Apart from those I repeatedly suggested or supported, like an early Ellington set and a Lionel Hampton Decca/MGM set, I'd like Ben Webster and Illinois Jacquet Clef/Verve sets.

Edited April 4, 2023 by mikeweil

[Kevin Bresnahan]

3 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

BUT the Roost/Roulette sides had been mostly unavailable for decades and the audience had much easier access the the Cobblestone/Muse material.

Not on CD though. There are several of those Muse sessions that have only been out on a limited 2 CD pressing out of England on the Camden label. 
 

On top of that, I’ve always wanted someone to go through those tapes to see if there is more on them and to see if someone could do for these sessions what Mosaic did for those latest Mobley & Henderson boxes - get the best possible audio.

I’m really not trying to put down those Roulette dates. It’s simply that I get way more enjoyment out of those Muse dates and they get played way more often. I had several of the best Roulette dates in CD so I bought this mostly for the hard to find ones. I think I know why they’re harder to find. They’re not top shelf Stitt.

[Chuck Nessa]

1 hour ago, bresna said:

Not on CD though. There are several of those Muse sessions that have only been out on a limited 2 CD pressing out of England on the Camden label.

32 Jazz CD reissues in 1999, a couple of years before the Mosaic box.

[Brad]

On 4/3/2023 at 12:29 PM, bresna said:

I've always thought that Mosaic picked the wrong label for their Sonny Stitt box. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of great tunes on that Roost box but there are also some clunkers. Plus, I've never actually gone searching for those old Roost records. They should have done Stitt's Muse records. On the whole, I think Stitt hits a lot more highs than lows throughout his Muse records and I pull those Muse CDs off the shelf way more often than the Mosaic Roost set. I actually don't even remember the last time I listened to it.

This hits the nail on the head. I listen to the Muses or what was reissued on 32Jazz consistently. I’ve only listened to the Roulette box once. 

[gmonahan]

On 4/4/2023 at 3:22 PM, mikeweil said:

Back to main topic: Apart from those I repeatedly suggested or supported, like an early Ellington set and a Lionel Hampton Decca/MGM set, I'd like Ben Webster and Illinois Jacquet Clef/Verve sets.

I'd definitely go for those!

[Eric]

Here's one ... Complete Muse recordings of Bill Hardman, Junior Cook and Mickey Tucker.  Very little of this made it to CD.  

[ghost of miles]

A Betty Carter set covering late 1950s through end of 70s—but I realize that would be a multi-label licensing nightmare. (And who owns the Bet-Car catalogue now?)     
A Geri Allen set of some kind… maybe 1980s/90s leader and side musician dates. 
And definitely some sort of Mary Lou Williams 1940s box. 

 

[gmonahan]

It seems like I remember Mosaic once considered a Betty Carter set, but begged off due to those licensing issues. Given recent attention to "women in jazz" (finally), a Mary Lou Williams set might actually sell, but I wouldn't want to have to pick through all those Andy Kirk things to find the jewels in the rough.

[Larry Kart]

An Art Farmer Mosaic. There'a so much to chose from that I think one would have to be very selective, perhaps even focusing only on trumpet Art and excluding most if not all flugelhorn Art, assuming that a reasonably sized Mosaic wouldn't have room for both. Certainly  a Mosaic worthy artist iMO. I'm especially impressed by early Art when his thinking shows the influence of his studies with George Russell. And then his transformation into the dulcet virtuoso of the flugelhorn was among the most notable stylistic shifts of any brasssman, though again I'd want be choosy there.

[sidewinder]

I think it’s been mentioned before but a set compiling the Blue Note ‘Somethin’ Else’ sessions (recorded for the Japanese market I think) by the likes of Ralph Peterson Fo’Tet, Geri Allen etc.  might make a nice set - ‘The Complete Blue Note ‘Somethin’ Else’ Sessions’.

[Rooster_Ties]

3 minutes ago, sidewinder said:

I think it’s been mentioned before but a set compiling the Blue Note ‘Somethin’ Else’ sessions (recorded for the Japanese market I think) by the likes of Ralph Peterson Fo’Tet, Geri Allen etc.  might make a nice set - ‘The Complete Blue Note ‘Somethin’ Else’ Sessions’.

Might make for a HUGE set, unless constrained somehow.  Somethin Else is an entire ‘sister-label’ to Blue Note in Japan.  Many, many titles here…

https://www.discogs.com/label/73732-Somethin-Else

[sidewinder]

45 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Might make for a HUGE set, unless constrained somehow.  Somethin Else is an entire ‘sister-label’ to Blue Note in Japan.  Many, many titles here…

https://www.discogs.com/label/73732-Somethin-Else

Fair point. Maybe an option is to focus on ‘Out Of The Blue’ and then cover releases from alumni such as Peterson, Allen etc.

Edited April 9, 2023 by sidewinder

[Joe]

I'd be down for THE COMPLETE JCOA RECORDINGS (minus the material licensed to other labels, like ESCALATOR OVER THE HILL). Clifford Thornton, GM III, Roswell Rudd, Leroy Jenkins, Don Cherry...

[T.D.]

14 minutes ago, Joe said:

I'd be down for THE COMPLETE JCOA RECORDINGS (minus the material licensed to other labels, like ESCALATOR OVER THE HILL). Clifford Thornton, GM III, Roswell Rudd, Leroy Jenkins, Don Cherry...

That would be a nice package, but I can't imagine Mosaic going for it. Far too avant-garde a roster.

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, T.D. said:

That would be a nice package, but I can't imagine Mosaic going for it. Far too avant-garde a roster.

Agree on all counts. Only a GREAT package, not just nice!!!!!

[felser]

28 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Agree on all counts. Only a GREAT package, not just nice!!!!!

+1.  The Moncur is especially amazing.

[Joe]

2 hours ago, felser said:

+1.  The Moncur is especially amazing.

Both the Rudd and the Thornton are pretty spectacular, too.

[Quasimado]

On 4/9/2023 at 9:15 AM, Larry Kart said:

An Art Farmer Mosaic. There'a so much to chose from that I think one would have to be very selective, perhaps even focusing only on trumpet Art and excluding most if not all flugelhorn Art, assuming that a reasonably sized Mosaic wouldn't have room for both. Certainly  a Mosaic worthy artist iMO. I'm especially impressed by early Art when his thinking shows the influence of his studies with George Russell. And then his transformation into the dulcet virtuoso of the flugelhorn was among the most notable stylistic shifts of any brasssman, though again I'd want be choosy there.

Agree with Larry - just listening to his solo on "Laconia" from Clifford Jordan's 1957 Blue Note "Cliff Craft" - just beautiful - swinging, inventive, musical. And there is so much more out there. He deserves a Mosaic.