Kenny Dorham: 2 Horns/2 Rhythm

[T.D.]

16 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

Zodiac had that Pure Pleasure reissue that may have increased its exposure. 

Dorham was a sideman on Clifford Jordan's Mosaic LP on Milestone that may qualify as obscure these days. Likewise his tracks on Cedar! which was released on Prestige. Since it combines trio, quartet and quintet combos it may be a less well known Dorham date.

 

Zodiac (along with Clifford Jordan in the World, where KD played on a couple of tracks) was included in the Clifford Jordan Strata-East Mosaic, which is how I acquired it.

I actually own Showboat and one of the Jazz Prophet releases (Volume 1; of course I have the Blue Note live Cafe Bohemia recording). Showboat is really good and the Jazz Prophets Volume 1  is recommendable. Will have to look for Volume 2, that's an omission.

[sidewinder]

That ‘Cedar!’ album on Prestige is a beauty. Some lovely late work by Dorham (and Walton) on that one.

[Joe]

I too enjoy THIS IS THE MOMENT. But I am a KD stan who wants to know everything I can about his musical evolution. Hearing him sing is a big part of that, especially given how "vocal" his trumpet playing became starting about the time of the Time recordings (JAZZ CONTEMPORARY and SHOWBOAT), reaching its apotheosis on the Pacific Jazz/United Artists/Blue Note Jackie McLean collaborations and his work with Joe Henderson. (Oh, and Hill's POINT OF DEPARTURE.)

Regarding that JAZZ PROPHETS LP... dig how hip this performance is. Among my favorite KD solos. 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Joe

[Spontooneous]

KD helps make the Barry Harris "Bull's Eye" album less routine than many Barry dates.

[mikeweil]

5 hours ago, Late said:

Tangential question—what would you list as the least well-known Dorham record, either leader or sideman? Cecil Payne's Zodiac perhaps? I need to listen to that one again.

[T.D.]

4 hours ago, sidewinder said:

That ‘Cedar!’ album on Prestige is a beauty. Some lovely late work by Dorham (and Walton) on that one.

Agreed, outstanding. My only beef is that engineer Richard Alderson provided his customary out-of-tune piano (as so often happened at Prestige 🙄), which detracts somewhat from Walton's sound.

[sidewinder]

4 minutes ago, T.D. said:

Agreed, outstanding. My only beef is that engineer Richard Alderson provided his customary out-of-tune piano (as so often happened at Prestige 🙄), which detracts somewhat from Walton's sound.

Yeah, I’ve often thought that Cedar makes a silk purse out of a sow’s ear for that one though, which adds to the overall charm and ambience of the session.

[Niko]

7 hours ago, Late said:

. 😔tangential question—what would you list as the least well-known Dorham record, either leader or sideman? Cecil Payne's Zodiac perhaps? I need to listen to that one again.

Meet Oliver Nelson? Or those live albums with Barney Wilen? Those are all among my favorites

[Joe]

This one is so obscure I forgot about it until the question was posed. 

 

[Gheorghe]

14 hours ago, T.D. said:

Zodiac (along with Clifford Jordan in the World, where KD played on a couple of tracks) was included in the Clifford Jordan Strata-East Mosaic, which is how I acquired it.

I actually own Showboat and one of the Jazz Prophet releases (Volume 1; of course I have the Blue Note live Cafe Bohemia recording). Showboat is really good and the Jazz Prophets Volume 1  is recommendable. Will have to look for Volume 2, that's an omission.

I had bought that "Clifford Jordan" and "Zodiac") sessions, also that Strata East Mosaic. 
But I had bought it only for the "Don Cherry-Charles Brackeen - Charlie Haden-Ed Blackwell" quartet, since an older friend in my early teens had it since I loved Don Cherry and I had it only on cassette.

I also listened a bit to the other CD´s "Zodiac " and "World" but my general impression is that there is a kind of morbidity on it, I mean acoustic straight ahead jazz played in at the end of the 60´s, and I remember that on the fotos all musicians look somehow as men who had seen better days.....

[Brad]

I listened to this yesterday and for the first three or four songs I wasn’t getting it, almost ready to toss into the sale pile, but then it started to click on the fifth song and I got what they were doing. It’s a cd that requires repeated listening; I listened to it twice.  Someone mentioned that GT Hogan’s drumming reminds them of Blakey. The only difference I heard was that Hogan’s playing is softer, unless it’s a miking issue. This cd is sort of a buried gem in Dorham (and Henry’s) work. 

[mikeweil]

I hear a lot more Max Roach than Blakey in Hogan's drumming.

[T.D.]

9 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

I had bought that "Clifford Jordan" and "Zodiac") sessions, also that Strata East Mosaic. 
But I had bought it only for the "Don Cherry-Charles Brackeen - Charlie Haden-Ed Blackwell" quartet, since an older friend in my early teens had it since I loved Don Cherry and I had it only on cassette.

I also listened a bit to the other CD´s "Zodiac " and "World" but my general impression is that there is a kind of morbidity on it, I mean acoustic straight ahead jazz played in at the end of the 60´s, and I remember that on the fotos all musicians look somehow as men who had seen better days.....

I think those albums are pretty good (the Wilbur Ware is the only set from that Mosaic that I'm indifferent about), but I agree that they both sound rather dark and melancholy. Though Jordan's Glass Bead Games, also on the Mosaic, is better than ...C J in the World.

Agreed on the photos...you can see the same thing in the Mosaic Beehive set's pics of straight-ahead players from the late '70s/early '80s.

Edited March 16, 2023 by T.D.

[Larry Kart]

2 hours ago, mikeweil said:

I hear a lot more Max Roach than Blakey in Hogan's drumming.

IIRC Hogan's set is nicely tuned up, a bit higher in pitch that most guys.

[Peter Friedman]

Some of my very favorite Kenny Dorham solos are on this terrific album.

[Late]

On 3/15/2023 at 2:50 PM, Joe said:

This one is so obscure I forgot about it until the question was posed. 

Yes! Originally Casual Affair, I believe. It has excellent Dorham on it indeed. He kind of sounds like Chet on this record.

 

[Rooster_Ties]

On 3/15/2023 at 11:14 AM, T.D. said:

…and the Jazz Prophets Volume 1  is recommendable. Will have to look for Volume 2, that's an omission.

There oughta be a big prize for anyone who can recommend Vol 2 — based on actual firsthand listening experience.  (Far as I’m aware, anyways.)

[jazzbo]

Vol. 2 does not exist.

[JSngry]

13 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

Vol. 2 does not exist.

That's no reason not to listen to it. 

[T.D.]

18 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

There oughta be a big prize for anyone who can recommend Vol 2 — based on actual firsthand listening experience.  (Far as I’m aware, anyways.)

My bad. Like a dumbass I always assumed that if there's a Volume 1 there must be a Volume 2.

But on the plus side, I haven't missed out. 😄

[Spontooneous]

IIRC, there's a Dick Katz interview where he says the tapes for Jazz Prophets Vol. 2 were lost or damaged.

I was not aware of that Mehegan date -- thanks for the tip.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Spontooneous

[Brad]

The best bet for the Mehegan date seems Fresh Sounds. 

[JSngry]

If you want to buy ii. 

[Rooster_Ties]

Found a nice used copy of 2H/2R at Euclid Records in St. Louis when I was there visiting my dad -- and also a copy of and The Jazz Prophets V1 -- for a couple dollars less each than I've seen them thru Dusty Groove too -- so I grabbed them both.

And, man, have I ever been digging them both, especially 2H/2R -- which, sans piano, really does seem to open things up a bit.  This is also my first exposure to Ernie Henry, and he's really a delight.  Late mentioned Ernie sounding a bit like "a more diatonic Ornette Coleman" -- and I'm definitely getting that sense too (even if it wasn't intentional).

Thanks, Late, for starting this thread.  As I said up above, I really don't have a ton of KD's leader-dates -- but I've got some new homework now.

[Joe]

Recently revisited this semi-obscurity, recorded about a month after 2 Horns / 2 Rhythm. I'm much more taken with it than I used to be, as KD plays exceptionally well here, IMO. Shame about the sound (a bit muffled on my OJC CD).