Rufus - Tell Me Something Good

[Teasing the Korean]

OK, I should really know the answer to this by 2023.

Are Rufus throwing in an extra 8th note at ends of the stanzas and then hacking off an 8th note at the end of the choruses, or is it that I'm not feeling the stanzas correctly?  I can count all the way through the tune and it all adds up evenly, but if they are not messing with the 8th notes, I can't feel where the 1 is on the stanzas.

[JSngry]

Count it in 8 instead of 4. The "bass" is on the 8th note upbeats, not the downbeats.

[Teasing the Korean]

12 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Count it in 8 instead of 4. The "bass" is on the 8th note upbeats, not the downbeats.

Right, I get how to count it, but I'm not feeling it.  You know how sometimes you can't feel where the 1 is on certain things?

[JSngry]

It one of those I Feel Fine tricks where the record makes the song sound different thant it really is because the record doesn't let you hear the countoff. 

[Teasing the Korean]

25 minutes ago, JSngry said:

It one of those I Feel Fine tricks where the record makes the song sound different thant it really is because the record doesn't let you hear the countoff. 

Right, but in those situations, sometimes you can eventually feel where the 1 is.  I still can't feel where it is in this tune, even though I can count it.

A lot of musicians had the same issue with "Girl U Want" by Devo.  I could feel where the 1 was instantly. Others felt the 1 on what was really the 2.

[ep1str0phy]

I also think that the feel is pretty elusive, but it helps to find an anchor point. The first bass note is on the and of 1, and the phrase "You ain't..." starts on the 1 (i.e., "You aint" = "1 &"). I try to focus on the keyboard.

I just listened to it again, and I feel like the time feel is a little easier to make sense of if you start at the chorus and move forward. 

[JSngry]

Sorry, I meant She's A Woman. 

[Teasing the Korean]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Sorry, I meant She's A Woman. 

I knew what you meant.  That one threw me as a little kid until about midway through the first stanza.  Eventually I could feel it correctly from the top.  

I'm determined to feel "Tell Me Something Good" in the right place.

10 hours ago, ep1str0phy said:

I also think that the feel is pretty elusive, but it helps to find an anchor point. The first bass note is on the and of 1, and the phrase "You ain't..." starts on the 1 (i.e., "You aint" = "1 &"). I try to focus on the keyboard.

I just listened to it again, and I feel like the time feel is a little easier to make sense of if you start at the chorus and move forward. 

When you say keyboard, to you mean the wah-wah thing?  Is that a claw?  I've been counting it "one and two and..." and focusing on the snare, which hits the 2 and 4.  I'm waiting for it to click in my mind.

[JSngry]

Everything is on the upbeat. That two bar break gives you a chance to get back to "normal" and then the chorus. But after the chorus, back to upbeat town.

I find that repeatedly studying this video only increases one's understanding.

 

[Teasing the Korean]

OK, I'm making progress.

I'm playing the tune on repeat and I'm pretending the play high hat eighth notes with one hand, while hitting the snare on the 2 and 4.  I can feel the rhythm now on the two-bar instrumental phrases between vocal lines of the stanzas.  So it is starting to kick in.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Teasing the Korean

[mikeweil]

On 3/10/2023 at 4:42 PM, JSngry said:

 

 

Is that a studio track dubbed over a live performance video? The voice is in sync, the instruments not always or not al of them. 

That is basically a reggae or ska beat, where the rhythm guitar is on the off beat. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by mikeweil

[Teasing the Korean]

4 hours ago, mikeweil said:

Is that a studio track dubbed over a live performance video? The voice is in sync, the instruments not always or not al of them. 

That is basically a reggae or ska beat, where the rhythm guitar is on the off beat. 

Are you sure?  I think the rhythm guitar is on the beat, and the bass and vocal are syncopated.

[mikeweil]

53 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Are you sure?  I think the rhythm guitar is on the beat, and the bass and vocal are syncopated.

I hear it the other way 'round. The rhythm guitar is on the off beat at first, like in reggae music. That is a Jamaican beat for me.

There is no keyboard audible on the audio track. 

From the B section the guitar is on the beat, and the bass on the off beat. then both are on the beat. Then the bass is offbeat again. They toy around with those reggae patterns.

Edited March 13, 2023 by mikeweil

[Teasing the Korean]

4 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

I hear it the other way 'round. The rhythm guitar is on the off beat, like in reggae music. That is a Jamaican beat for me.

There is no keyboard audible on the audio track. 

From the B section the guitar is on the beat, and the bass on the off beat. then both are on the beat. They toy around with those reggare patterns.

I hear it like you do.  And that was the whole point of this post.  We are hearing it wrong!  

It is easier to feel the beat correctly on the live versions, for me at least.

 

 

[mikeweil]

No problem with the live tracks. That's black rhythm understanding. You don't have to play the beat to feel it. When Chaka starts singing, it is on the "1", but the second eighth note takes it to the offbeat. 

In this tune, the bass switches all the time from section to section, but the way he plays it is clear he always feels the beat right. What you as a listener heat and what you feel may differ. I once transcribed all the patterns of an Abakuá toque from a Mongo Santamaria record. All the patterns were coorect in relation to each other, but I had the "1" in the wrong  place. Later I attended a clinic by Jon Otis with a few friends/colleagues, and that showed me the clave correctly. No way back after that.

How about this version:

 

They are better than we are! 

[Teasing the Korean]

3 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

No problem with the live tracks. That's black rhythm understanding. You don't have to play the beat to feel it. When Chaka starts singing, it is on the "1", but the second eighth note takes it to the offbeat. 

In this tune, the bass switches all the time from section to section, but the way he plays it is clear he always feels the beat right. What you as a listener heat and what you feel may differ. I once transcribed all the patterns of an Abakuá toque from a Mongo Santamaria record. All the patterns were coorect in relation to each other, but I had the "1" in the wrong  place. Later I attended a clinic by Jon Otis with a few friends/colleagues, and that showed me the clave correctly. No way back after that. 

I was going off what you posted previously, that it was a like a ska rhythm.  Quite the opposite:  Those guitar and/or keyboard stabs on the stanzas are happening on the beat, not off.

[mikeweil]

I don't know anything about the band or that song, butI have the impression that they changed the rhythmic configuration, kind of experimented with it.

[JSngry]

It's a Stevie Wonder song. Blame him!