Ronnie Cuber story

[Larry Kart]

"When I first heard mentor/music legend Ronnie Cuber had passed away, the 1993 The Scene Is Clean(Milestone) recording session immediately popped into my head,” said bassist Reggie Washington on social media. “Ronnie was pissed at pianist Geoff Keezer for not taking the music seriously. At the end of his rant (and the rehearsal) he said: ‘Do you know who the hell I am? I’m Muthafu@king Ronnie Cuber … and this rehearsal is over!’ I looked at my big brothers, drummer Victor Jones and legendary percussionist Milton Cardona (R.I.P.), and they motioned me out the door! The next day was as if it never happened and the session (as you can hear) was great!" 

Larry Kart (who yesterday ordered "The Scene Is Clean")

[Gheorghe]

Very interesting story. Geoff Keezer I think was one of the pianists of Art Blakey´s Jazz Messengers. I think I heard on album, it may have been Art´s 70´s Birthday and Keezer sounds very fine. 

"Scene is Clean" is an album dedicated to Dameron - tunes ? 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I actually didn't keep "The Scene Is Clean". It was a long time ago, so I don't remember why but it definitely wasn't something I would play repeatedly. It's not like I don't have enough of Ronnie's CDs though. I still have 15 other titles.

[mikeweil]

11 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

"When I first heard mentor/music legend Ronnie Cuber had passed away, the 1993 The Scene Is Clean(Milestone) recording session immediately popped into my head,” said bassist Reggie Washington on social media. “Ronnie was pissed at pianist Geoff Keezer for not taking the music seriously. At the end of his rant (and the rehearsal) he said: ‘Do you know who the hell I am? I’m Muthafu@king Ronnie Cuber … and this rehearsal is over!’ I looked at my big brothers, drummer Victor Jones and legendary percussionist Milton Cardona (R.I.P.), and they motioned me out the door! The next day was as if it never happened and the session (as you can hear) was great!" 

Larry Kart (who yesterday ordered "The Scene Is Clean")

I have that CD. You would never know from listening. Maybe Keezer was taking it too casually at first with his abundance of talent. 

10 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

Very interesting story. Geoff Keezer I think was one of the pianists of Art Blakey´s Jazz Messengers. I think I heard on album, it may have been Art´s 70´s Birthday and Keezer sounds very fine. 

Keezer was Blakey's last pianist. He was asked to join Miles Davis at the same time but preferred the Messengers.

Edited March 3, 2023 by mikeweil

[Gheorghe]

12 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

I have that CD. You would never know from listening. Maybe Keezer was taking too casually with his abundance of talent. 

Keezer was Blakey's last pianist. He was asked to join Miles Davis at the same time but preferred the Messengers.

Did you see the 70th Birthday Blakey concert with all the older members sittin in ? At Leverkusen ? 

[mikeweil]

No. I saw Blakey twice during later years, the band with Ponomarev, Watson, and Schnitter, James Williams on piano, and a later performance with a woran at the piano. That Leverkusen gig must have been something,  maybe l saw part of it on a video. 

Keezer was great with Blakey. Taking some chances with wild unexpected passages in his solos.

[felser]

I saw Keezer live with Blakey at Penn's Landing.  He was 18 years old.  I was not crazy about him, the guy who blew me away that night was Brian Lynch.  Rest of the group was Steve Davis on trombone, Dale Barlow and Javon Jackson both on tenor (I much preferred Barlow that night) and Essiet Essiett on bass.

[kh1958]

Geoffrey Keezer is still at it; I heard him last year in New Orleans as keyboardist in David Sanborn's group.

[mikeweil]

1 hour ago, felser said:

I saw Keezer live with Blakey at Penn's Landing.  He was 18 years old.  I was not crazy about him, the guy who blew me away that night was Brian Lynch.  Rest of the group was Steve Davis on trombone, Dale Barlow and Javon Jackson both on tenor (I much preferred Barlow that night) and Essiet Essiett on bass.

That band recorded this album:

[Peter Friedman]

I saw Geoff Keezer playing two pianos with Harold Mabern in Toronto back in the mid-90's. They recorded an album for Sackville titled "For Phineas".

I did not really care for the 2 of them in person or on the album. The music was a little too dense and not swinging enough for me.

 

I also had that Ronnie Cuber album -"The Scene Is Clean" and disposed of it. There were a number of other albums by Cuber I preferred.

[Michael Weiss]

When I recorded N.Y. Cats (SteepleChase) with Ronnie he was cranky at the rehearsal or session, don't remember which. But it was a momentary snit fit and he was cool after that. Don't even remember what got under his skin. Passionate guy, that's all. On the Mingus Epitaph tour Ronnie and George Adams were two of the chillest in the band.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Michael Weiss

[Gheorghe]

8 hours ago, Michael Weiss said:

When I recorded N.Y. Cats (SteepleChase) with Ronnie he was cranky at the rehearsal or session, don't remember which. But it was a momentary snit fit and he was cool after that. Don't even remember what got under his skin. Passionate guy, that's all. On the Mingus Epitaph tour Ronnie and George Adams were two of the chillest in the band.

Great ! I must get that Steeple Chase album. 

I didn´t see the Mingus Epitaph, but saw Mingus live twice, but heard Ronny Cuber only on Mingus last album "Me Myself and I" and "Something like Bird", but this is more blowing session .

[Larry Kart]

Actually, IMO other Cuber albums on Steeplechase are preferable -- too much obtrusive Latin percusssion on this one. 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

On 5/19/2023 at 9:44 AM, Larry Kart said:

Actually, IMO other Cuber albums on Steeplechase are preferable -- too much obtrusive Latin percusssion on this one. 

Are you talking about "The Scene is Clean" on Milestone or "N.Y. Cats" on Steeplechase? There is not any added Latin percussion on "N.Y. Cats", not even on the one Latin tune.

[Larry Kart]

My error. The IMO obtrusive  Latin percussion is  on "The Scene is Clean." "NY Cats" is a gem, and there are IIRC other fine Cuber albums on Steeplechase. 

[JSngry]

With all the Latin gigs that Cuber played, I have to wonder whose fault it was that the percussion on this date would be intrusive? 

[HutchFan]

FWIW, I really dig The Scene Is Clean.

Like the old maxim says: De gustibus non est disputandum.

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by HutchFan

[Larry Kart]

6 hours ago, JSngry said:

With all the Latin gigs that Cuber played, I have to wonder whose fault it was that the percussion on this date would be intrusive? 

 

6 hours ago, HutchFan said:

FWIW, I really dig The Scene Is Clean.

Like the old maxim says: De gustibus non est disputandum.

 

The producer or Milton Cardona himself; and then there's Ronnie too. Also, maybe, whoever mixed the date. But then Hutch Fan (above) likes it. De gustibus

[JSngry]

In what sense do you find them intrusive? 

 

Too damn loud; and they cover up too much of what Ronnie is doing. It's like "Who do I want to hear more,  Milton Cardona or Ronnie Cuber?" And I have nothing against Latin percussion per se,  just this guy on this date. BTW, have you noticed how many Cuber fans here said that they dumped the album? Are we all bad guys or ignorant?  Also, don't have the album any more, but I don't recall that Cuber was stimulated by what Cardona was doing, which surely is the first requirement.

[sonnymax]

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

...Are we all bad guys or ignorant?...

Not me. I'm both! 🤠

[JSngry]

Bad guys or ignorant? I am in no way qualified to speak to or about other peoples' consciences. Their intellects will speak for itselves over time. 

It - the record in question - was a Latin-ish date to begin with, and certainly had commercial/crossover ambitions (just look at that cover photo!!!) . Those are mostly all studio players, which is where Cuber was living at the time. You get studio players to make a studio record, you get a studio record, for better and for worse. 

As such, it did what it wanted to do in the way it was to have been done. In no way is it supposed to be a "straight jazz record". It's got an Eddie Palmieri cover for crying out loud! And a tune called Fajardo. Cuber was pretty well known in Latin circles, not just jazz. 

And Ronnie Cuber had no problems making commercial records. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Not only was the scene clean, so was his conscience (it certainly seems!) "Jazz fans" can be horribly parochial about stuff like that sometimes. 

So if you buy this record expecting a Steeplechase-type affair, you might not be ignorant, but you will be woefully uninformed as to why you expectations were not met. 

It's the guitarist that bugs me, to be honest. Never did care for him. Not in BS&T, not with Joe Henderson, not in the SNL band (which I think is where both him and Cuber were gigging at the time). Never. 

Oh, please be careful. You meant to quote me, but instead you edited me. 

Otherwise, FAJARDOI!!! 

 

[T.D.]

4 minutes ago, JSngry said:

...

Oh, please be careful. You meant to quote me, but instead you edited me. 

...

 

Thanks for clearing that up. Puzzled the heck out of me...Jim seemingly replying to his own post using Larry's language. 🤔

[JSngry]

I mean, seriously, look at this personnel. What would make a anybody expect a "straight jazz record" here?

Bass – Reggie Washington, Tom Barney

Drums – Victor Jones 

Drums, Percussion – Manolo Badrena, Milton Cardona

Flute – Lawrence Feldman

Guitar – Georg Wadenius

Keyboards – Geoff Keezer

Organ – Joey DeFrancesco

3 minutes ago, T.D. said:

Thanks for clearing that up. Puzzled the heck out of me...Jim seemingly replying to his own post using Larry's language. 🤔

Puzzled me as well!!! 

[JSngry]

Fajardo!!!

 

4 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

 

The producer... 

Cuber's wife/partner/whatever. 

[sonnymax]

9 hours ago, JSngry said:

Bad guys or ignorant? I am in no way qualified to speak to or about other peoples' consciences. Their intellects will speak for itselves over time. 

It - the record in question - was a Latin-ish date to begin with, and certainly had commercial/crossover ambitions (just look at that cover photo!!!) . Those are mostly all studio players, which is where Cuber was living at the time. You get studio players to make a studio record, you get a studio record, for better and for worse. 

As such, it did what it wanted to do in the way it was to have been done. In no way is it supposed to be a "straight jazz record". It's got an Eddie Palmieri cover for crying out loud! And a tune called Fajardo. Cuber was pretty well known in Latin circles, not just jazz. 

And Ronnie Cuber had no problems making commercial records. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Not only was the scene clean, so was his conscience (it certainly seems!) "Jazz fans" can be horribly parochial about stuff like that sometimes. 

So if you buy this record expecting a Steeplechase-type affair, you might not be ignorant, but you will be woefully uninformed as to why you expectations were not met. 

It's the guitarist that bugs me, to be honest. Never did care for him. Not in BS&T, not with Joe Henderson, not in the SNL band (which I think is where both him and Cuber were gigging at the time). Never. 

Oh, please be careful. You meant to quote me, but instead you edited me. 

Otherwise, FAJARDOI!!! 

 

Sorry. Didn't intend to edit or censure you. I use ellipses to acknowledge that there is more to a quote than what I am focusing on in my response. I do it for emphasis and clarity, and to avoid wasting space in a thread with redundancy. I was trying to share some self-deprecating humor, like "you gotta be crazy or stupid to do that" and "not me, I'm both!". Oh well. In the future, I will not take the time and effort to craft a succinct post. I'll just do what I've done here. Thanks for the schoolin'.